I just don't understand.... (3 Viewers)

[covmark]

A company buys the football club I support. In the space of 5 years they sell most of the players that are worth anything, 'gain' demotion to league one, build up an enormous debt, treat the fans with total disdain, take the team away from Coventry to ground share 35 miles away, and reduce the fan base from 17,000 per game to around 1500.

When interviewed Joy Seppela lays the blame clearly with the council for high rent, a rent which she was fully aware of from when they purchased the club.

Now every other article I read on the Coventry Telegraph seems to give the view that the next best action would be for SISU to buy the Ricoh. Also people on here are arguing the same. Where the heck is this coming from?

I really can't understand why any fan wouldn't feel absolute horror at the thought of this bunch of incompetents taking over a major development in the City of Coventry. I really do feel like shouting at the top of my voice whenever I read an article even hinting at SISU getting their way in this sorry affair of their own making.

At the end of the day SISU's normal business plan is to make a quick buck out of distressed businesses. Their dear hope is to get the Ricoh at a knock down price, then recoup their losses by selling it at market price.

There is the answer I hear all you pro-SISUs shout - then the club will be sold!

No I say. If this happened SISU would be recouping their money at the expense of the Coventry ratepayers. Coventry ratepayers have already saved the club when the Ricoh project was bailed out by the council. Now the people of Coventry are being told they have got to bail the club out again. Never!

This is my point of view. I will never got to see CCFC play again it is owned by SISU - full stop. If a new Coventry team was created to play in the Ricoh and were branded the new sky blues they would get my full support.

I will leave this on one note. Joy Seppela said in her latest interview that she felt empathy with the fans. The dictionary definition for empathy is:-

"Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives."

In the same interview she says:-

"I shepherd other people’s money. I don’t have the desire to run a football club, I don’t know anything about football"

To me this says everything about the woman and the business she runs.

Goodnight.

Dear oh dear, the same old "asset of Coventry" nonsense. A football stadium without a football club, what an amazing asset for the city. Couldn't care less about the Ricoh without the skyblues playing there. Surely the importance of us coming home outweighs anything else.

 

---

[thaiskyblue]

Who would buy a football club without a stadium?
What would sisu do with a stadium without a football club?

Why would sisu retain the stadium if all they want is make a quick buck?

err sisu................

 

[Godiva]

Surely then it can be equally argued that Higgs and the Council also saved the club back in 2003?

Yes it can.

 

[Godiva]

err sisu................

You're the third to make that very observant response.
We were bought by a hedge fund, because they specialize in financial basket cases like us. Do you really want our next owners to be another hedge fund?

 

[Spionkop]

Sisu have been a disaster at every stage for our club. They have no 'empathy', are incompetent. They are currently incompetent. They are failing currently. They haven't a clue.
& what's more they are ruthlessly incompetent.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Surely then it can be equally argued that Higgs and the Council also saved the club back in 2003?

They stepped in to complete the job - nobody else did! No argument. Some it seems will argue that CCFC would have been better off if something else had happened instead no doubt...but whatever that something else might have been is anybody's guess.

 

[Noggin]

That is not a fact so cannot be in any way certain - only a speculation which can be believed or not believed. We might well have folded just as or even more easily than if they hadn't come in. Them coming in with the 11th hr rescue IS a fact.

It's not a fact that we would have been better off by now without sisu of course but it is as I said almost certain based on whats happen to similar clubs in similar situations, it is a fact they they rescued us at the 11th hour and I supported them at the time and was grateful for it at the time, but hindsight has told us that it hasn't worked out in the slightest and so we shouldn't be grateful to them now for that rescue as it's extremely likely we'd be in a better position now if it hadn't happened.

If we could go back in time knowing what we know now I'm 95%+ sure we'd have been better going into admin and being sold off with a clean slate. That admin would have been completely different to the admin we just experienced which was a disgrace and the laws in this country need to be urgently looked at, I had no idea what utterly despicable things happened legitly.

 

[Noggin]

They stepped in to complete the job - nobody else did! No argument. Some it seems will argue that CCFC would have been better off if something else had happened instead no doubt...but whatever that something else might have been is anybody's guess.

There is the chance we could have gotten liquidated but it's a very small chance and the chance of us being liquidated now is probably higher. So you can say it's a guess what would have happened all you like (even though other clubs suggest it would have been much more preferable to the slow death by a thousand cuts we are currently receiving) but its also a guess what will happen now and there seems to be no obvious way out at the moment, there certainly was then.

 

[cochese]

I can't help but bite, call me pro-SISU but...

A company buys the football club I support. In the space of 5 years they sell most of the players that are worth anything, 'gain' demotion to league one, build up an enormous debt, treat the fans with total disdain, take the team away from Coventry to ground share 35 miles away, and reduce the fan base from 17,000 per game to around 1500.

Selling the players happens to all clubs. Even Arsenal were forced to sell van persie to one of their rivals. Demotion to league one was down to a poor choice of manager from the previous men running the club. Since then we have appointed Robins and Pressley who are in my view taking the club forward. The debt was built up again because of previous errors made by SISU which they have admitted. And in addressing that they felt they had to cut ties with the Ricoh due to the high rent and lack of income.

When interviewed Joy Seppela lays the blame clearly with the council for high rent, a rent which she was fully aware of from when they purchased the club.

SISU were sold a bad investment. If they had done their homework they wouldn't have come near the club. They were advised very poorly in its purchase.

Now every other article I read on the Coventry Telegraph seems to give the view that the next best action would be for SISU to buy the Ricoh. Also people on here are arguing the same. Where the heck is this coming from?

I really can't understand why any fan wouldn't feel absolute horror at the thought of this bunch of incompetents taking over a major development in the City of Coventry. I really do feel like shouting at the top of my voice whenever I read an article even hinting at SISU getting their way in this sorry affair of their own making.

The best way that any club can move forward is to get the ground and the football club together. the club then has an asset. Currently it's only asset is its players.

At the end of the day SISU's normal business plan is to make a quick buck out of distressed businesses. Their dear hope is to get the Ricoh at a knock down price, then recoup their losses by selling it at market price.

There's no such thing as a quick buck in football.

There is the answer I hear all you pro-SISUs shout - then the club will be sold!

No I say. If this happened SISU would be recouping their money at the expense of the Coventry ratepayers. Coventry ratepayers have already saved the club when the Ricoh project was bailed out by the council. Now the people of Coventry are being told they have got to bail the club out again. Never!

SISU have too much financial clout, and put too much money into this club to just simply walk away. Money not very well spent granted, but any business would want to explore every avenue to get back its investment. Would the coventry rate payers prefer their "investment" to sit unused like a white elephant?

This is my point of view. I will never got to see CCFC play again it is owned by SISU - full stop. If a new Coventry team was created to play in the Ricoh and were branded the new sky blues they would get my full support.

I will leave this on one note. Joy Seppela said in her latest interview that she felt empathy with the fans. The dictionary definition for empathy is:-

"Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives."

In the same interview she says:-

"I shepherd other people’s money. I don’t have the desire to run a football club, I don’t know anything about football"

To me this says everything about the woman and the business she runs.

Goodnight.

What do Roman Abromovic, John Henry, Abu Dhabi United Group and The glazer family know about football? They employ people around them to take care of the football club, and that's what Tim fisher and Steve Waggot are there for.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

I can't help but bite, call me pro-SISU but...



Selling the players happens to all clubs. Even Arsenal were forced to sell van persie to one of their rivals. Demotion to league one was down to a poor choice of manager from the previous men running the club. Since then we have appointed Robins and Pressley who are in my view taking the club forward. The debt was built up again because of previous errors made by SISU which they have admitted. And in addressing that they felt they had to cut ties with the Ricoh due to the high rent and lack of income.



SISU were sold a bad investment. If they had done their homework they wouldn't have come near the club. They were advised very poorly in its purchase.



The best way that any club can move forward is to get the ground and the football club together. the club then has an asset. Currently it's only asset is its players.




There's no such thing as a quick buck in football.



SISU have too much financial clout, and put too much money into this club to just simply walk away. Money not very well spent granted, but any business would want to explore every avenue to get back its investment. Would the coventry rate payers prefer their "investment" to sit unused like a white elephant?



What do Roman Abromovic, John Henry, Abu Dhabi United Group and The glazer family know about football? They employ people around them to take care of the football club, and that's what Tim fisher and Steve Waggot are there for.

Correct however two have a proven track record in owning sport teams and the guy that runs the overseas operations of one of those clubs could of been our owner if Robinson and co had used their brains.

 

[rondog1973]

Yes, and what happened?

...and yet you advocate selling the Ricoh to such Incompetents/Bastards?

 

[torchomatic]

Presumably then you advocate us remaining homeless and playing in Northampton? If CCC don't sell the Ricoh to the club then that's where we are staying.

...and yet you advocate selling the Ricoh to such Incompetents/Bastards?

 

[rondog1973]

I can't help but bite, call me pro-SISU but...



Selling the players happens to all clubs. Even Arsenal were forced to sell van persie to one of their rivals. Demotion to league one was down to a poor choice of manager from the previous men running the club. Since then we have appointed Robins and Pressley who are in my view taking the club forward. The debt was built up again because of previous errors made by SISU which they have admitted. And in addressing that they felt they had to cut ties with the Ricoh due to the high rent and lack of income.



SISU were sold a bad investment. If they had done their homework they wouldn't have come near the club. They were advised very poorly in its purchase.



The best way that any club can move forward is to get the ground and the football club together. the club then has an asset. Currently it's only asset is its players.




There's no such thing as a quick buck in football.



SISU have too much financial clout, and put too much money into this club to just simply walk away. Money not very well spent granted, but any business would want to explore every avenue to get back its investment. Would the coventry rate payers prefer their "investment" to sit unused like a white elephant?



What do Roman Abromovic, John Henry, Abu Dhabi United Group and The glazer family know about football? They employ people around them to take care of the football club, and that's what Tim fisher and Steve Waggot are there for.

Who advised them poorly? Anything to substantiate this?

You seem to be implying that Sisu are some sort of philanthropic saviours of football clubs, that they were wet behind the ears enough to be sold a dud.

Sharks in the world of business and finance as far as I have observed.

 

[rondog1973]

Presumably then you advocate us remaining homeless and playing in Northampton? If CCC don't sell the Ricoh to the club then that's where we are staying.

Nope, the club ain't Sisu, it's the fans. Starve Sisu out is what I advocate.

 

[Ashdown1]

What's the worst that can happen if Otium unite club and stadium?
If they can't make it profitable, they will sell.
If they do make it profitable they will sell.

I think to many the worse that can happen is sisu make it work, sell up and leave with a return on their investment. Even if this means leaving the club with a much brighter future than when they came in.

What happens if they spend another 10 years fucking it up, failing, loading more debt against it, further demotion. They are a disaster and incompetent at every level other than bullying ! Stuff them and anyone who defends them !

 

[cochese]

Who advised them poorly? Anything to substantiate this?

You seem to be implying that Sisu are some sort of philanthropic saviours of football clubs, that they were wet behind the ears enough to be sold a dud.

Sharks in the world of business and finance as far as I have observed.

Where's Ray Ranson these days?

 

[Godiva]

What happens if they spend another 10 years fucking it up, failing, loading more debt against it, further demotion. They are a disaster and incompetent at every level other than bullying ! Stuff them and anyone who defends them !

What happens if they get it right? Unite club and stadium, boost FFP, get promoted back to the Championship and become competetive there?

 

[rondog1973]

What happens if they get it right? Unite club and stadium, boost FFP, get promoted back to the Championship and become competetive there?

You'd trust them to do that?

 

[rondog1973]

Where's Ray Ranson these days?

Fuck knows. He was useless and the rest of the organisation have done even worse since his departure.

 

[Warwickhunt]

who would buy a football club without a stadium?
What would sisu do with a stadium without a football club?

Why would sisu retain the stadium if all they want is make a quick buck?

sisu did!!!!

 

[Godiva]

You'd trust them to do that?

They are here - they don't seem likely to go away anytime soon, so I actually hope they will get it right.
Some people do learn from past mistakes - but those who do not learn from their mistakes tend to believe others can't (learn).
I believe sisu have learnt from their mistakes.

 

[Ashdown1]

What happens if they get it right? Unite club and stadium, boost FFP, get promoted back to the Championship and become competetive there?

They have shown absolutely no signs of the competency in football to do any of that. To boost FFP you need to be in tune and popular with your clientele for them to want to spend money with your organisation, every week they continue to spout garbage through that moron Fisher and play 35 miles away then they alienate just a few more good paying customers.

 

[Godiva]

sisu did!!!!

Hurray! You are no 4 to give that response and have won third prize which is the right to read the whole thead.

 

[rondog1973]

They are here - they don't seem likely to go away anytime soon, so I actually hope they will get it right.
Some people do learn from past mistakes - but those who do not learn from their mistakes tend to believe others can't (learn).
I believe sisu have learnt from their mistakes.

Have seen absolutely no evidence to suggest I share your optimism.

 

[Noggin]

They are here - they don't seem likely to go away anytime soon, so I actually hope they will get it right.
Some people do learn from past mistakes - but those who do not learn from their mistakes tend to believe others can't (learn).
I believe sisu have learnt from their mistakes.

you can't possibly belive that, we are playing in northampton losing 200kish per game more than we would be if we were paying 400k rent at the ricoh, this continues despite how obviously and utterly absurd it is, how can you possibly think sisu have learnt from their mistakes?

 

[skyblueinBaku]

I can't help but bite, call me pro-SISU but...











What do Roman Abromovic, John Henry, Abu Dhabi United Group and The glazer family know about football? They employ people around them to take care of the football club, and that's what Tim fisher and Steve Waggot are there for.

Steve Waggot seems to be doing his job well. But if Fisher is there to 'take care' of the football club, he's made a right pigs ear of the job so far.

 

[Godiva]

you can't possibly belive that, we are playing in northampton losing 200kish per game more than we would be if we were paying 400k rent at the ricoh, this continues despite how obviously and utterly absurd it is, how can you possibly think sisu have learnt from their mistakes?

For starters I believe one mistake was to accept being tenants. They are on the path to rectify that.
As it turned out, Ranson/Hoffman/Elliott were also a mistake - one that cost them - and us - dearly. They're gone so sisu have rectified that.
They did a mistake of appointing Ken Dulieu, but that was quickly rectified too.

Going to Northampton is not necessarily a mistake - considering the goal is to unite club and stadium. They can't negotiate with ACL about ownership as ACL ownership is ultimately decided by CCc and Higgs Foundation. And clearly most politicians won't accept sisu/Otium as owners of ACL. And equally most politicians won't sell the freehold to sisu/Otium. Not yet, and it may take too long for them to change their mind.
From a strategic point of view - they had to walk away to either build a new stadium or give CCc time to 'think' about what is most important for the council and the city of Coventry: 1) Have a football stadium with no football team and an area with declining businesses, or 2) sell the freehold and see the area being developed and the fans happy.

Whatever happens - in 4-5 years the club will own all income streams from the venue they play. Be it the Ricoh or 'Stadium of Joy'.
Or the club will be dead and gone. History.

 

[Ashdown1]

For starters I believe one mistake was to accept being tenants. They are on the path to rectify that.
As it turned out, Ranson/Hoffman/Elliott were also a mistake - one that cost them - and us - dearly. They're gone so sisu have rectified that.
They did a mistake of appointing Ken Dulieu, but that was quickly rectified too.

Going to Northampton is not necessarily a mistake - considering the goal is to unite club and stadium. They can't negotiate with ACL about ownership as ACL ownership is ultimately decided by CCc and Higgs Foundation. And clearly most politicians won't accept sisu/Otium as owners of ACL. And equally most politicians won't sell the freehold to sisu/Otium. Not yet, and it may take too long for them to change their mind.
From a strategic point of view - they had to walk away to either build a new stadium or give CCc time to 'think' about what is most important for the council and the city of Coventry: 1) Have a football stadium with no football team and an area with declining businesses, or 2) sell the freehold and see the area being developed and the fans happy.

Whatever happens - in 4-5 years the club will own all income streams from the venue they play. Be it the Ricoh or 'Stadium of Joy'.
Or the club will be dead and gone. History.

I think you should see a doctor, you're having strange illusions. ' They are on the path to rectify that' ?!
1, No new stadium will ever be built
2, The only way anyone would sell the Ricoh to this despicable hedge fund would be at a preferable price to the ratepayers of Coventry and with a covenant stating that club and stadium always remain financially united, something I doubt SISU would sanction
3, In the meantime CCFC fans young and old either dwindle away or find other entertainment at the weekends. Every week the habit is broken, every week that bond is loosened, you think if SISU finally break the council in 3-5 years there will be an eager fanbase to support a club still owned by the very protagonists that have destroyed and ridiculed all they believed in.

 

[bezzer]

sisu did!!!!

:facepalm:

 

[sky blue john]

Other than Godivas ridiculous comments there are some good arguments for and against Sisu buying the stadium !!!
I am firmly in the Sisu out camp because of what they have done to our club.
But even i see we are not going to move forward without compromise. I am prepared to see Sisu with a stake in the Ricoh if it means us moving forward. I would obviously need conditions involved with legally protecting that the club and stadium can not be split or borrowed against.

 

[No future with SISU]

For starters I believe one mistake was to accept being tenants. They are on the path to rectify that.
As it turned out, Ranson/Hoffman/Elliott were also a mistake - one that cost them - and us - dearly. They're gone so sisu have rectified that.
They did a mistake of appointing Ken Dulieu, but that was quickly rectified too.

Going to Northampton is not necessarily a mistake - considering the goal is to unite club and stadium. They can't negotiate with ACL about ownership as ACL ownership is ultimately decided by CCc and Higgs Foundation. And clearly most politicians won't accept sisu/Otium as owners of ACL. And equally most politicians won't sell the freehold to sisu/Otium. Not yet, and it may take too long for them to change their mind.
From a strategic point of view - they had to walk away to either build a new stadium or give CCc time to 'think' about what is most important for the council and the city of Coventry: 1) Have a football stadium with no football team and an area with declining businesses, or 2) sell the freehold and see the area being developed and the fans happy.

Whatever happens - in 4-5 years the club will own all income streams from the venue they play. Be it the Ricoh or 'Stadium of Joy'.
Or the club will be dead and gone. History.

Who is going to develope the area?

 

[Godiva]

Other than Godivas ridiculous comments there are some good arguments for and against Sisu buying the stadium !!!
I am firmly in the Sisu out camp because of what they have done to our club.
But even i see we are not going to move forward without compromise. I am prepared to see Sisu with a stake in the Ricoh if it means us moving forward. I would obviously need conditions involved with legally protecting that the club and stadium can not be split or borrowed against.

Of course I am ridiculous, but at least I have been consistently ridiculous since I signed up here - and before that on GMK.
I am insane to think the first and most important strategic issue is for the club to become financial viable long term. I am insane to believe we need to own the stadium and all income streams to get there and move forward from there.

 

[Godiva]

Who is going to develope the area?

Probably someone signed up by sisu (I assume you mean if sisu buy the freehold) - someone with expertise. A hotel chain? A housing developper?

 

[No future with SISU]

But THEY didn't rescue us did they? They didn't put their money where their mouth was - wanted the by then distressed club on the cheap...SISU-eque style...so speculating that we would have been better off is your choice. Not CCFC's reality!

They pulled out as the club could not pay its way with the debt that the owners wanted them to take on. As Joy said looking back she would not have taken the club on, SISU first mistake of many.

 

[No future with SISU]

Probably someone signed up by sisu (I assume you mean if sisu buy the freehold) - someone with expertise. A hotel chain? A housing developper?

SISU were the councils perfered bidder as they were supposed to get the area developed, 5 years later nothing done now you see why the council wants rid of them.