I just don't understand.... (11 Viewers)

[mark82]

A company buys the football club I support. In the space of 5 years they sell most of the players that are worth anything, 'gain' demotion to league one, build up an enormous debt, treat the fans with total disdain, take the team away from Coventry to ground share 35 miles away, and reduce the fan base from 17,000 per game to around 1500.

When interviewed Joy Seppela lays the blame clearly with the council for high rent, a rent which she was fully aware of from when they purchased the club.

Now every other article I read on the Coventry Telegraph seems to give the view that the next best action would be for SISU to buy the Ricoh. Also people on here are arguing the same. Where the heck is this coming from?

I really can't understand why any fan wouldn't feel absolute horror at the thought of this bunch of incompetents taking over a major development in the City of Coventry. I really do feel like shouting at the top of my voice whenever I read an article even hinting at SISU getting their way in this sorry affair of their own making.

At the end of the day SISU's normal business plan is to make a quick buck out of distressed businesses. Their dear hope is to get the Ricoh at a knock down price, then recoup their losses by selling it at market price.

There is the answer I hear all you pro-SISUs shout - then the club will be sold!

No I say. If this happened SISU would be recouping their money at the expense of the Coventry ratepayers. Coventry ratepayers have already saved the club when the Ricoh project was bailed out by the council. Now the people of Coventry are being told they have got to bail the club out again. Never!

This is my point of view. I will never got to see CCFC play again it is owned by SISU - full stop. If a new Coventry team was created to play in the Ricoh and were branded the new sky blues they would get my full support.

I will leave this on one note. Joy Seppela said in her latest interview that she felt empathy with the fans. The dictionary definition for empathy is:-

"Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives."

In the same interview she says:-

"I shepherd other people’s money. I don’t have the desire to run a football club, I don’t know anything about football"

To me this says everything about the woman and the business she runs.

Goodnight.

So you would rather a 12,000 seater stadium is built "near" Coventry? Forget who is to blame for a minute and the choice is either build a new stadium or buy the Ricoh. SISU have said they are not willing to rent.

 

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[Ashdown1]

Other than Godivas ridiculous comments there are some good arguments for and against Sisu buying the stadium !!!
I am firmly in the Sisu out camp because of what they have done to our club.
But even i see we are not going to move forward without compromise. I am prepared to see Sisu with a stake in the Ricoh if it means us moving forward. I would obviously need conditions involved with legally protecting that the club and stadium can not be split or borrowed against.

I'm not sure Seppalla is used to having to compromise over anything. It appears she's used to getting her own way ruthlessly using mainly the courts to intimidate opponents. Not once to my knowledge has she laid out a plan as to what would happen if ACL/CCC did cave in to her demands?! Timescales/business plan/land development/club progression ?? It's this typical lack of transparency and secrecy that provokes deepest suspicion.

 

[stupot07]

SISU were the councils perfered bidder as they were supposed to get the area developed, 5 years later nothing done now you see why the council wants rid of them.

First time I've seen this mentioned.

 

[Ashdown1]

Of course I am ridiculous, but at least I have been consistently ridiculous since I signed up here - and before that on GMK.
I am insane to think the first and most important strategic issue is for the club to become financial viable long term. I am insane to believe we need to own the stadium and all income streams to get there and move forward from there.

Nothing wrong with any of your wishes and desires at all, all understandable, the problem comes when 'We' includes SISU !!

 

[torchomatic]

Is that true? I know they were the Council's preferred bidders, and Mr Coventry's but not heard about the "supposed to get the area developed" bit. Don't believe that.

SISU were the councils perfered bidder as they were supposed to get the area developed, 5 years later nothing done now you see why the council wants rid of them.

 

[Godiva]

I think you should see a doctor, you're having strange illusions. ' They are on the path to rectify that' ?!
1, No new stadium will ever be built
2, The only way anyone would sell the Ricoh to this despicable hedge fund would be at a preferable price to the ratepayers of Coventry and with a covenant stating that club and stadium always remain financially united, something I doubt SISU would sanction
3, In the meantime CCFC fans young and old either dwindle away or find other entertainment at the weekends. Every week the habit is broken, every week that bond is loosened, you think if SISU finally break the council in 3-5 years there will be an eager fanbase to support a club still owned by the very protagonists that have destroyed and ridiculed all they believed in.

1.: I've been having these illusions ever since they got rid of Ranson/Hoffman/Elliott - with a major setback while KD was here. I'm incurable.
2.: I do believe JS said in her interview with Les Reid that the club should own the stadium.
3.: I agree. It's so sad and extremely frustrating. The way I see it is that if Fisher from the very start had embrazed the fans much more it could actually be that the fans were now flocking to Sixfields. So it's a case of a lost PR war. One that ACL won (with a lot of help from (ah ... ah ... ahtjoffman - sorry, I have a bad cold) from someone who had their own agenda. It has long been a stampede and fans running away from the club. I blame Fisher for not taking in the Trust and keep them warm and happy.

When we moved from HR to Ricoh the attendance raise by some 5-6.000 per game. It will happen again.

 

[Ashdown1]

The original plan was always to get that area of North Coventry developed, by who and when and with what money I'm not sure !?
The first stage was the Arena and the shopping park { Which is still growing and very successful}.

 

[rondog1973]

For starters I believe one mistake was to accept being tenants. They are on the path to rectify that.
As it turned out, Ranson/Hoffman/Elliott were also a mistake - one that cost them - and us - dearly. They're gone so sisu have rectified that.
They did a mistake of appointing Ken Dulieu, but that was quickly rectified too.

Going to Northampton is not necessarily a mistake - considering the goal is to unite club and stadium. They can't negotiate with ACL about ownership as ACL ownership is ultimately decided by CCc and Higgs Foundation. And clearly most politicians won't accept sisu/Otium as owners of ACL. And equally most politicians won't sell the freehold to sisu/Otium. Not yet, and it may take too long for them to change their mind.
From a strategic point of view - they had to walk away to either build a new stadium or give CCc time to 'think' about what is most important for the council and the city of Coventry: 1) Have a football stadium with no football team and an area with declining businesses, or 2) sell the freehold and see the area being developed and the fans happy.

Whatever happens - in 4-5 years the club will own all income streams from the venue they play. Be it the Ricoh or 'Stadium of Joy'.
Or the club will be dead and gone. History.

Not necessarily a mistake going to Northampton?

Disenfranchising at least 90% of your support base was not necessarily a mistake?

I'd hate to witness what you'd consider to be a bit of a faux pas....

 

[Ashdown1]

1.: I've been having these illusions ever since they got rid of Ranson/Hoffman/Elliott - with a major setback while KD was here. I'm incurable.
2.: I do believe JS said in her interview with Les Reid that the club should own the stadium.
3.: I agree. It's so sad and extremely frustrating. The way I see it is that if Fisher from the very start had embrazed the fans much more it could actually be that the fans were now flocking to Sixfields. So it's a case of a lost PR war. One that ACL won (with a lot of help from (ah ... ah ... ahtjoffman - sorry, I have a bad cold) from someone who had their own agenda. It has long been a stampede and fans running away from the club. I blame Fisher for not taking in the Trust and keep them warm and happy.

When we moved from HR to Ricoh the attendance raise by some 5-6.000 per game. It will happen again.

'Fans flocking to Sixfields'.............Either that's more than a cold you are nursing or you are just on the wind up now you naughty man !!??

 

[Godiva]

I'm not sure Seppalla is used to having to compromise over anything. It appears she's used to getting her own way ruthlessly using mainly the courts to intimidate opponents. Not once to my knowledge has she laid out a plan as to what would happen if ACL/CCC did cave in to her demands?! Timescales/business plan/land development/club progression ?? It's this typical lack of transparency and secrecy that provokes deepest suspicion.

Yes - bang on the money!

 

[rondog1973]

For starters I believe one mistake was to accept being tenants. They are on the path to rectify that.
As it turned out, Ranson/Hoffman/Elliott were also a mistake - one that cost them - and us - dearly. They're gone so sisu have rectified that.
They did a mistake of appointing Ken Dulieu, but that was quickly rectified too.

Going to Northampton is not necessarily a mistake - considering the goal is to unite club and stadium. They can't negotiate with ACL about ownership as ACL ownership is ultimately decided by CCc and Higgs Foundation. And clearly most politicians won't accept sisu/Otium as owners of ACL. And equally most politicians won't sell the freehold to sisu/Otium. Not yet, and it may take too long for them to change their mind.
From a strategic point of view - they had to walk away to either build a new stadium or give CCc time to 'think' about what is most important for the council and the city of Coventry: 1) Have a football stadium with no football team and an area with declining businesses, or 2) sell the freehold and see the area being developed and the fans happy.

Whatever happens - in 4-5 years the club will own all income streams from the venue they play. Be it the Ricoh or 'Stadium of Joy'.
Or the club will be dead and gone. History.

Furthermore, did they not replace Dulieu with Fisher? and is not Dulieu one of the directors of Otium?

Not forget Onye Igwe of course....

 

[Godiva]

Furthermore, did they not replace Dulieu with Fisher? and is not Dulieu one of the directors of Otium?

Not forget Onye Igwe of course....

Dulieu was director of Otium when it was set up. I doubt very much he still is. But yes, he was replaced with Fisher.
Igwe was (I think) a sisu employee and was sacked around the same time Dulieu left.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

For starters I believe one mistake was to accept being tenants. They are on the path to rectify that.
As it turned out, Ranson/Hoffman/Elliott were also a mistake - one that cost them - and us - dearly. They're gone so sisu have rectified that.
They did a mistake of appointing Ken Dulieu, but that was quickly rectified too.

Going to Northampton is not necessarily a mistake - considering the goal is to unite club and stadium. They can't negotiate with ACL about ownership as ACL ownership is ultimately decided by CCc and Higgs Foundation. And clearly most politicians won't accept sisu/Otium as owners of ACL. And equally most politicians won't sell the freehold to sisu/Otium. Not yet, and it may take too long for them to change their mind.
From a strategic point of view - they had to walk away to either build a new stadium or give CCc time to 'think' about what is most important for the council and the city of Coventry: 1) Have a football stadium with no football team and an area with declining businesses, or 2) sell the freehold and see the area being developed and the fans happy.

Whatever happens - in 4-5 years the club will own all income streams from the venue they play. Be it the Ricoh or 'Stadium of Joy'.
Or the club will be dead and gone. History.

100% Agree Godiva a well constructed arguement and realistic propositions compared to maost arguements on this thread..

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Godiva after over 5 years in charge I suggest you refocus your view of 'success' on business outcomes, it really is irrelevant who Sisu replaced when.

Revenue- more than halved , re gates, sponsorship
Profit - debt still 60m +, and losses mounting at Sixfields
Club assets- cut to the bone
Customer, market base- disappearing week on week
Customer satisfaction..haha

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Godiva after over 5 years in charge I suggest you refocus your view of 'success' on business outcomes, it really is irrelevant who Sisu replaced when.

Revenue- more than halved , re gates, sponsorship
Profit - debt still 60m +, and losses mounting at Sixfields
Club assets- cut to the bone
Customer, market base- disappearing week on week
Customer satisfaction..haha

Gates had started to fall the following season after we moved into the Ricoh, the trend was there..

 

[sky blue john]

Gates had started to fall the following season after we moved into the Ricoh, the trend was there..

Sounds like your proud of the 90% drop in one season though !!!!!

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Gates had started to fall the following season after we moved into the Ricoh, the trend was there..

Oh come on, why defend them?. Sisu came in with a lot of positive support, if they had delivered anything half decent we would still be in the Championship with 15k+ crowds. They had failure after failure, leading to relegation and a big drop in gates, now Sixfields.

It wasnt 'inevitable'; CCFC should at least a championship team with 15k+ crowds...

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Sounds like your proud of the 90% drop in one season though !!!!!

Not at all, but blaming SISU for the drop in attendances since their arrival when attendances had been dropping season after season on moving into the Ricoh is not a valid arguement.

 

[James Smith]

Quote Originally Posted by Godiva View Post
For starters I believe one mistake was to accept being tenants. They are on the path to rectify that.
As it turned out, Ranson/Hoffman/Elliott were also a mistake - one that cost them - and us - dearly. They're gone so sisu have rectified that.
They did a mistake of appointing Ken Dulieu, but that was quickly rectified too.

Going to Northampton is not necessarily a mistake - considering the goal is to unite club and stadium. They can't negotiate with ACL about ownership as ACL ownership is ultimately decided by CCc and Higgs Foundation. And clearly most politicians won't accept sisu/Otium as owners of ACL. And equally most politicians won't sell the freehold to sisu/Otium. Not yet, and it may take too long for them to change their mind.
From a strategic point of view - they had to walk away to either build a new stadium or give CCc time to 'think' about what is most important for the council and the city of Coventry: 1) Have a football stadium with no football team and an area with declining businesses, or 2) sell the freehold and see the area being developed and the fans happy.

Whatever happens - in 4-5 years the club will own all income streams from the venue they play. Be it the Ricoh or 'Stadium of Joy'.
Or the club will be dead and gone. History.

But what would the club have been if not tenants? Did we have the money at any point prior to the SISU takeover to buy back the Higgs share?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Oh come on, why defend them?. Sisu came in with a lot of positive support, if they had delivered anything half decent we would still be in the Championship with 15k+ crowds. They had failure after failure, leading to relegation and a big drop in gates, now Sixfields.

It wasnt 'inevitable'; CCFC should at least a championship team with 15k+ crowds...

True they did and I am not saying the decisions they made are defendable or that they haven't made incorrect decisions.

CCFC IMO would have mounted a good promotion push with a decent choice in first team manager and may have achieved more than just an average Championship side, although things can't go on the way they were with regards to the finances and if all the rubbish now leads us to being better of finacially in the future I am all for it.

 

[Godiva]

But what would the club have been if not tenants? Did we have the money at any point prior to the SISU takeover to buy back the Higgs share?

No, sisu should have acquired the Higgs shares at takeover.
But Ransons plan was: 1. Stabilize the club (he meant financially), 2. Win promotion to PL and 3. Buy the stadium. So they weren't thinking about becoming owners until we were in PL and had money to buy ACL in full - maybe even the freehold? Sadly Ranson never even came close to fullfil point no 1.

 

[will am i]

Not at all, but blaming SISU for the drop in attendances since their arrival when attendances had been dropping season after season on moving into the Ricoh is not a valid arguement.

Come on. I think that if we were in the Championship and at the Ricoh crowds would be higher than they are now. You seem to be defending SISU and saying the fall in attendances are not their fault. I assume that is what you are saying. They might not be as high as they were during the first season at the Ricoh but they wouldnt be averaging around 2000 if it wasnt for the decisons of those running the club. Sisu are responsible for where we are.

 

[hill83]

Gates had started to fall the following season after we moved into the Ricoh, the trend was there..

Yeah, you are right, there was a trend of falling attendances. But come on now, leave some straws for the rest of us.

 

[Ashdown1]

No, sisu should have acquired the Higgs shares at takeover.
But Ransons plan was: 1. Stabilize the club (he meant financially), 2. Win promotion to PL and 3. Buy the stadium. So they weren't thinking about becoming owners until we were in PL and had money to buy ACL in full - maybe even the freehold? Sadly Ranson never even came close to fullfil point no 1.

Ransons plan was to make a huge wad of cash out of extortionate rates on debt interest and on that note he succeeded very well and fucked off into the sunset............... allegedly.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

No, sisu should have acquired the Higgs shares at takeover.
But Ransons plan was: 1. Stabilize the club (he meant financially), 2. Win promotion to PL and 3. Buy the stadium. So they weren't thinking about becoming owners until we were in PL and had money to buy ACL in full - maybe even the freehold? Sadly Ranson never even came close to fullfil point no 1.

That's not actually true, is it? Ranson did not make promotion a condition of buying the stadium: he said on take-over that it would be bought within a year. When challenged on this later on CWR, he said "within a year to two years" and said that he "guaranteed it".


You're such a SISU employed WUM...it makes me sick.

 

[Godiva]

Ransons plan was to make a huge wad of cash out of extortionate rates on debt interest and on that note he succeeded very well and fucked off into the sunset............... allegedly.

Yeah, but without his Prozone.

 

[torchomatic]

Can't disagree with you. For once.

Oh come on, why defend them?. Sisu came in with a lot of positive support, if they had delivered anything half decent we would still be in the Championship with 15k+ crowds. They had failure after failure, leading to relegation and a big drop in gates, now Sixfields.

It wasnt 'inevitable'; CCFC should at least a championship team with 15k+ crowds...

 

[mark_ccfc]

So you would rather a 12,000 seater stadium is built "near" Coventry? Forget who is to blame for a minute and the choice is either build a new stadium or buy the Ricoh. SISU have said they are not willing to rent.

I know my post was quite long and the following quote was not emphasised but:-

"This is my point of view. I will never got to see CCFC play again it is owned by SISU - full stop. If a new Coventry team was created to play in the Ricoh and were branded the new sky blues they would get my full support. "

 

[Ashdown1]

Yeah, but without his Prozone.

Is that on prescription or can you buy it over the counter?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

They pulled out as the club could not pay its way with the debt that the owners wanted them to take on. As Joy said looking back she would not have taken the club on, SISU first mistake of many.

Precisely - I rest my case

 

[hill83]

Precisely - I rest my case

That's it all sorted then lads. Bazza has closed this case off.

Get the cigars out.

 

[mark_ccfc]

Dear oh dear, the same old "asset of Coventry" nonsense. A football stadium without a football club, what an amazing asset for the city. Couldn't care less about the Ricoh without the skyblues playing there. Surely the importance of us coming home outweighs anything else.

You may not care less about what happens to the Ricoh, but there a lot of other Coventry taxpayers who do. If we take the figure of 10,000 as those who are passionate about the team then we can safely say that the vast majority of the city's taxpayers, who bailed out the club when the council bought the stadium, couldn't care less about the football team.

 

[Grendel]

You may not care less about what happens to the Ricoh, but there a lot of other Coventry taxpayers who do. If we take the figure of 10,000 as those who are passionate about the team then we can safely say that the vast majority of the city's taxpayers, who bailed out the club when the council bought the stadium, couldn't care less about the football team.

It didn't cost the taxpayers one penny and none of them give a stuff about it.

 

[Astute]

It didn't cost the taxpayers one penny and none of them give a stuff about it.

Yeah let's give it to SISU for a quid like they bought our club for. It don't matter about loans, charity money, mortgage or contracts. SISU have fucked our club up so can be trusted with the Ricoh.

 

[Grendel]

Yeah let's give it to SISU for a quid like they bought our club for. It don't matter about loans, charity money, mortgage or contracts. SISU have fucked our club up so can be trusted with the Ricoh.

I agree none if them matter. They never mattered to Elliot and co before - paying bills was very low on their agenda.

The only thing that matters is we play in Coventry and the consequences for all other parties are ultimately irrelevant.