NTFC Official Statement re:ACL (6 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

I will respond to you before the end of the evening.

Really? You need to think about your answers on these questions? surely if you've already come to the conclusion that you don't like ACL you would have had to think about these questions to come to that conclusion.

 

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[Astute]

The "rent" was I assume to a private organisation and not to a council that viewed the club as a community assett. Also I assume it was not a rent untrue terms as I assume it was a deal tied with the sake of the stadium and the length of time to vacate. So frankly the amount is neither rent or relevant.

We can all vent spleens however historical fact will prove one thing. This club played out of its city for the only time in its 130 year history under your watch.

History will record this as a statistical fact. It will make the judgement of apportionment of blame. Whatever you, me or anyone else says will not change that but for sure you and no one else in here will have played a part in that.

Poor reply Grendull. You are trying to make it sound like it has nothing to do with SISU and the way they like to do business.

 

[skybluetony176]

We can all vent spleens however historical fact will prove one thing. This club played out of its city for the only time in its 130 year history under your watch.

Surely you mean Sisu's watch? you do realise Sisu own the club not ACL?

 

[Grendel]

Poor reply Grendull. You are trying to make it sound like it has nothing to do with SISU and the way they like to do business.

No I am not but the claim the rent was set at the probe we paid in our LAST year (clearly not the penultimate year) is disengenious at best.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

No I am not but the claim the rent was set at the probe we paid in our LAST year (clearly not the penultimate year) is disengenious at best.

G- SISU hold CCFC(the football club) as a hostage in Northampton- with the ransom demand for its return the freehold/keys to the Ricoh arena. Its so bloody obvious- which part of that is not clear, which part of that do you not understand?

 

[Astute]

No I am not but the claim the rent was set at the probe we paid in our LAST year (clearly not the penultimate year) is disengenious at best.

And you are yet to have a go at the builders that bought HR for charging 1.2m a year for a stadium that wasn't anywhere near as good as the Ricoh whilst our club was on its knees.

 

[Tonylinc]

Thank you PWKH for coming on this forum yet again. It is good to hear from someone who is actually in the "know".

 

[Grendel]

Surely you mean Sisu's watch? you do realise Sisu own the club not ACL?

The club doesn't play at its stadium. PWKH and his chums have played a part in this - to suggest otherwise is pure folly - remember we almost went bankrupt in 2005 thanks to the wonderful arrangement that required 22,000 paying adults to break even.

PWKH thinks players get too much money - that's the problem apparently. Others think that this was a lazy, easy way for the management company to gain instant revenue in its formative years.

All opinions of course.

 

[skybluefred]

Whilst much of what you have said is true, what you're missing is the reasoning behind all of the actions that you've pointed out. Firstly, players move on. We've always had players move on to bigger and better things. Be it Westwood to Sunderland, or Dublin to Villa. That's just football. As for the lease that was signed by SISU, well it was our previous owners who signed that lease, and it was SISU who took over the lease when purchasing the club. Had SISU really known the impact of that then I very much doubt they would have bought the club. And for that I'd point the finger at random and the early directors of SISU, people who are no longer associated with the management of our club. The Higgs charity had approved the sale of their share of the Ricoh to SISU which was then blocked by ACL so I'm not sure why you think they were being distressed? The whole administration process you could easily argue was initiated by ACL in an attempt to keep hold of their lease and force new owners. Which failed dramatically. And as a result, that lease has now been broken. And finally as owners of the football club, why would you then want to sign another lease with the Ricoh arena when they have shown nothing but contempt for the football club, using it as a cash cow for all these years.
These last few seasons we have focused on youth development, and bought in two much improved managers in robins and pressley. SISU created this mess, and now they're trying to fix it. The change in directors and improved choice of managers has shown this. Bringing the football club and the Ricoh (or a new ground) together makes the football club a much better proposition for future buyers and investors. So there is your one solitary agrument for allowing SISU own part of the Ricoh arena. Then they'll be out of the club for ever...

Seems like you have missed the point entirely,Players do get sold on and then get replaced by hopefully better one's.
Unfortunately this means PAYING a Transfer Fee to the selling club,which unfortunately sisu had no intention of paying,
instead using CCFC as a cash cow.

Sisu carried out due diligence before insisting that all shareholders returned their shares for FREE before buying the Club for £1 plus an outstanding tax bill.They had the opportunity to ask for an new rental agreement before purchase of the CLUB,their failure to do so points to their own poor management.

The sale of the Higgs share was arranged but sisu failed to follow up their accepted bid.

I couldn't possibly argue that ACL initiated the administration when sisu organised it to get out of the legally binding lease.Remember it was sisu who went on a 12 month rent strike,if any business did that to a landlord they would rightly be booted out.

In Sepalla's own words we know nothing about football--and she is now trying to run a football club with a half dozen experienced players and a bunch of young teenagers,which, now the injuries are starting to kick in is leaving us exposed.
Sisu's ambition for the Club is highlighted by the talk of building what is little more than a cow shed to hold 12,000 fans,
and it will be outside Coventry's boundaries so will be lucky to attract 1200 fans.

Like I said there is no argument for sisu. they should just drift off into the sunset.

 

[skybluetony176]

The club doesn't play at its stadium. PWKH and his chums have played a part in this - to suggest otherwise is pure folly - remember we almost went bankrupt in 2005 thanks to the wonderful arrangement that required 22,000 paying adults to break even.

PWKH thinks players get too much money - that's the problem apparently. Others think that this was a lazy, easy way for the management company to gain instant revenue in its formative years.

All opinions of course.

i don't deny ACL should have done more and sooner and never have, but before shitsu made the decision to take CCFC out of Coventry they(ACL) made efforts to make arrangements to keep CCFC in Coventry. What did shitsu do? that's right they made arrangements for CCFC to leave the city.

that is not opinion that is fact

 

[Grendel]

Thank you PWKH for coming on this forum yet again. It is good to hear from someone who is actually in the "know".

Stop crawling. The only thing we "know" is the business model he and his cronies signed up to didn't work.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Stop crawling. The only thing we "know" is the business model he and his cronies signed up to didn't work.

Is that a fact G?- Please answer post 145.. Thanks

 

[italiahorse]

Stop crawling. The only thing we "know" is the business model he and his cronies signed up to didn't work.

Concentrate on your answer, we all want to go to bed.
My pencil is sharpened ready to go .............. ointlaugh:

 

[cochese]

Seems like you have missed the point entirely,Players do get sold on and then get replaced by hopefully better one's.
Unfortunately this means PAYING a Transfer Fee to the selling club,which unfortunately sisu had no intention of paying,
instead using CCFC as a cash cow.

Sisu carried out due diligence before insisting that all shareholders returned their shares for FREE before buying the Club for £1 plus an outstanding tax bill.They had the opportunity to ask for an new rental agreement before purchase of the CLUB,their failure to do so points to their own poor management.

The sale of the Higgs share was arranged but sisu failed to follow up their accepted bid.

I couldn't possibly argue that ACL initiated the administration when sisu organised it to get out of the legally binding lease.Remember it was sisu who went on a 12 month rent strike,if any business did that to a landlord they would rightly be booted out.

In Sepalla's own words we know nothing about football--and she is now trying to run a football club with a half dozen experienced players and a bunch of young teenagers,which, now the injuries are starting to kick in is leaving us exposed.
Sisu's ambition for the Club is highlighted by the talk of building what is little more than a cow shed to hold 12,000 fans,
and it will be outside Coventry's boundaries so will be lucky to attract 1200 fans.

Like I said there is no argument for sisu. they should just drift off into the sunset.

If you are a club losing money, for whatever reason, then selling players is a way to plug those losses. Why the club was losing money is speculation but if you're paying high wages, and not getting enough fans through the turnstiles then you'd expect that to be a big factor.

PKWH has pointed out otherwise regarding the Higgs share, though my point was taken from the interview with JS.

I didn't deny that there was poor management from the beginning. But it's noticeable that none of the team where at the club at the start of SISUs reign are no longer seen at the club.

Yes SISU stopped paying the rent. But can you really blame them? If someone suddenly clicks that they're paying a ridiculous amount of money to play in a stadium for very little return, then any business wil do what it takes to get out of that lease.

Those young teenagers playing for us at the moment are playing for the club. More than can be said for the many journeymen we've had the mis pleasure of watching over the years. They are also being taught to play football the right way, football that has been mostly great to watch this season.

And that cow shed would have been large enough to house fans who turned up to watch Coventry for most of the games last season. And if you can expand on it to make it bigger if crows return then that will work for them.

There are arguments for SISU, but the arguments are not favourable for the fans. I'd love to be back at the Ricoh, but you can't just continue to run a loss making business without making some drastic changes to turn things around. And if SISU can't get hold of the Ricoh, then from a purely asset building point of view they have had to do something else. It's not popular, it's going to affect the club for years to come, but this is the only solution that might allow us to own a stadium. Be it the Ricoh, or the mystery stadium that no one is really sure is going to built.

 

[italiahorse]

If you are a club losing money, for whatever reason, then selling players is a way to plug those losses. Why the club was losing money is speculation but if you're paying high wages, and not getting enough fans through the turnstiles then you'd expect that to be a big factor.

PKWH has pointed out otherwise regarding the Higgs share, though my point was taken from the interview with JS.

I didn't deny that there was poor management from the beginning. But it's noticeable that none of the team where at the club at the start of SISUs reign are no longer seen at the club.

Yes SISU stopped paying the rent. But can you really blame them? If someone suddenly clicks that they're paying a ridiculous amount of money to play in a stadium for very little return, then any business wil do what it takes to get out of that lease.

Those young teenagers playing for us at the moment are playing for the club. More than can be said for the many journeymen we've had the mis pleasure of watching over the years. They are also being taught to play football the right way, football that has been mostly great to watch this season.

And that cow shed would have been large enough to house fans who turned up to watch Coventry for most of the games last season. And if you can expand on it to make it bigger if crows return then that will work for them.

There are arguments for SISU, but the arguments are not favourable for the fans. I'd love to be back at the Ricoh, but you can't just continue to run a loss making business without making some drastic changes to turn things around. And if SISU can't get hold of the Ricoh, then from a purely asset building point of view they have had to do something else. It's not popular, it's going to affect the club for years to come, but this is the only solution that might allow us to own a stadium. Be it the Ricoh, or the mystery stadium that no one is really sure is going to built.

Welcome to the debate. Please read all the similar threads on the bulletin board.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

If you are a club losing money, for whatever reason, then selling players is a way to plug those losses. Why the club was losing money is speculation but if you're paying high wages, and not getting enough fans through the turnstiles then you'd expect that to be a big factor.

PKWH has pointed out otherwise regarding the Higgs share, though my point was taken from the interview with JS.

I didn't deny that there was poor management from the beginning. But it's noticeable that none of the team where at the club at the start of SISUs reign are no longer seen at the club.

Yes SISU stopped paying the rent. But can you really blame them? If someone suddenly clicks that they're paying a ridiculous amount of money to play in a stadium for very little return, then any business wil do what it takes to get out of that lease.

Those young teenagers playing for us at the moment are playing for the club. More than can be said for the many journeymen we've had the mis pleasure of watching over the years. They are also being taught to play football the right way, football that has been mostly great to watch this season.

And that cow shed would have been large enough to house fans who turned up to watch Coventry for most of the games last season. And if you can expand on it to make it bigger if crows return then that will work for them.

There are arguments for SISU, but the arguments are not favourable for the fans. I'd love to be back at the Ricoh, but you can't just continue to run a loss making business without making some drastic changes to turn things around. And if SISU can't get hold of the Ricoh, then from a purely asset building point of view they have had to do something else. It's not popular, it's going to affect the club for years to come, but this is the only solution that might allow us to own a stadium. Be it the Ricoh, or the mystery stadium that no one is really sure is going to built.

The points you make, may or may not be valid, but tell me- if the stadium plans were to materialise around the buisness model you suggest- in the short term- assuming a rental fee for the Ricoh could be negotiated in line with that as paid at Northampton- would that not make sense- more paying customers, more revenue? And yet Joy quite clearly stated- No freehold, no talks. End of chat you might say?

 

[ccfcway]

And that cow shed would have been large enough to house fans who turned up to watch Coventry for most of the games last season. And if you can expand on it to make it bigger if crows return then that will work for them

Are you saying that Sixfields would have been big enough for last season ?

 

[cochese]

Welcome to the debate. Please read all the similar threads on the bulletin board.

There have been too many broken records over the last few months. My points included. But when I read some of the posts on here, it feels as though some fans still believe SISU are being shits just to spite the fans. And it's perfectly understandable. But somewhere amongst all that shit is a football club trying to survive.

 

[wince]

If you are a club losing money, for whatever reason, then selling players is a way to plug those losses. Why the club was losing money is speculation but if you're paying high wages, and not getting enough fans through the turnstiles then you'd expect that to be a big factor.

PKWH has pointed out otherwise regarding the Higgs share, though my point was taken from the interview with JS.

I didn't deny that there was poor management from the beginning. But it's noticeable that none of the team where at the club at the start of SISUs reign are no longer seen at the club.

Yes SISU stopped paying the rent. But can you really blame them? If someone suddenly clicks that they're paying a ridiculous amount of money to play in a stadium for very little return, then any business wil do what it takes to get out of that lease.

Those young teenagers playing for us at the moment are playing for the club. More than can be said for the many journeymen we've had the mis pleasure of watching over the years. They are also being taught to play football the right way, football that has been mostly great to watch this season.

And that cow shed would have been large enough to house fans who turned up to watch Coventry for most of the games last season. And if you can expand on it to make it bigger if crows return then that will work for them.

There are arguments for SISU, but the arguments are not favourable for the fans. I'd love to be back at the Ricoh, but you can't just continue to run a loss making business without making some drastic changes to turn things around. And if SISU can't get hold of the Ricoh, then from a purely asset building point of view they have had to do something else. It's not popular, it's going to affect the club for years to come, but this is the only solution that might allow us to own a stadium. Be it the Ricoh, or the mystery stadium that no one is really sure is going to built.

Happy tenth birthdat

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

There have been too many broken records over the last few months. My points included. But when I read some of the posts on here, it feels as though some fans still believe SISU are being shits just to spite the fans. And it's perfectly understandable. But somewhere amongst all that shit is a football club trying to survive.

Being strangled in Northampton....by the owners- nobody else?

 

[cochese]

The points you make, may or may not be valid, but tell me- if the stadium plans were to materialise around the buisness model you suggest- in the short term- assuming a rental fee for the Ricoh could be negotiated in line with that as paid at Northampton- would that not make sense- more paying customers, more revenue? And yet Joy quite clearly stated- No freehold, no talks. End of chat you might say?

Here's a quote from a not so recent q and a.

"ACL: Yes, Chris West and Paul Harris were advised post 29 January 2013 meeting during a follow up discussion with Tim Fisher, Mark Labovitch and John Clarke, that the Club wanted a three year run off period. This was totally rejected by the ACL representatives. There were no details provided of the location other than “South Warwickshire”, and that it would potentially take three years."

The freehold talks was purely based on ownership of the Ricoh. I think...

 

[skybluefred]

If you are a club losing money, for whatever reason, then selling players is a way to plug those losses. Why the club was losing money is speculation but if you're paying high wages, and not getting enough fans through the turnstiles then you'd expect that to be a big factor.

PKWH has pointed out otherwise regarding the Higgs share, though my point was taken from the interview with JS.

I didn't deny that there was poor management from the beginning. But it's noticeable that none of the team where at the club at the start of SISUs reign are no longer seen at the club.

Yes SISU stopped paying the rent. But can you really blame them? If someone suddenly clicks that they're paying a ridiculous amount of money to play in a stadium for very little return, then any business wil do what it takes to get out of that lease.

Those young teenagers playing for us at the moment are playing for the club. More than can be said for the many journeymen we've had the mis pleasure of watching over the years. They are also being taught to play football the right way, football that has been mostly great to watch this season.

And that cow shed would have been large enough to house fans who turned up to watch Coventry for most of the games last season. And if you can expand on it to make it bigger if crows return then that will work for them.

There are arguments for SISU, but the arguments are not favourable for the fans. I'd love to be back at the Ricoh, but you can't just continue to run a loss making business without making some drastic changes to turn things around. And if SISU can't get hold of the Ricoh, then from a purely asset building point of view they have had to do something else. It's not popular, it's going to affect the club for years to come, but this is the only solution that might allow us to own a stadium. Be it the Ricoh, or the mystery stadium that no one is really sure is going to built.

There is just one reason a Football Club loses money.It's because they are not playing winning football,not exciting to watch, so the crowd's dwindle.So instead of spending money adding players to the squad what did sisu do? They sold all of our best players and didn't replace them,and so we got relegated and the gates dropped even further.So still not
having learned from their own stupidity sisu did it again,they moved us to the cobblers for up to FIVE YEARS and the
crowds fell to an all time low,and they are not even covering their running costs.

To cap it all they have now bought out the most ludicrous new football shirt imaginable,I was going to call it grotesque
but that would be an insult to grotesque,but hey I hope Fisher has one on next Sunday.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Here's a quote from a not so recent q and a.

"ACL: Yes, Chris West and Paul Harris were advised post 29 January 2013 meeting during a follow up discussion with Tim Fisher, Mark Labovitch and John Clarke, that the Club wanted a three year run off period. This was totally rejected by the ACL representatives. There were no details provided of the location other than “South Warwickshire”, and that it would potentially take three years."

The freehold talks was purely based on ownership of the Ricoh. I think...

29th January was 10 months ago- respectfully lots of water has passed by.... and so accepting that legal protocol wasnt followed in that the £150,000 / annum offer from ACL wasnt through the administrator- but taking it at face value and as an offer of reconcilliation- is that offer more or less conducive to further negotiations than "Its the freehold of the Ricoh or nothing" as reported by Joy circa 10 days ago?

 

[cochese]

There is just one reason a Football Club loses money.It's because they are not playing winning football,not exciting to watch, so the crowd's dwindle.So instead of spending money adding players to the squad what did sisu do? They sold all of our best players and didn't replace them,and so we got relegated and the gates dropped even further.So still not
having learned from their own stupidity sisu did it again,they moved us to the cobblers for up to FIVE YEARS and the
crowds fell to an all time low,and they are not even covering their running costs.

To cap it all they have now bought out the most ludicrous new football shirt imaginable,I was going to call it grotesque
but that would be an insult to grotesque,but hey I hope Fisher has one on next Sunday.

I believe Portsmouth took that approach of buying more and more players to keep the fans entertained. How are they doing now?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

There is just one reason a Football Club loses money.It's because they are not playing winning football,not exciting to watch, so the crowd's dwindle.

No, a club loses money if it lives beyond its means, and spends money on costs it shouldn't.

So instead of spending money adding players to the squad

So you want the club to live more beyond its means?!? Did the Richardson/Robinson years teach you nothing?!?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

29th January was 10 months ago- respectfully lots of water has passed by.... and so accepting that legal protocol wasnt followed in that the £150,000 / annum offer from ACL wasnt through the administrator- but taking it at face value and as an offer of reconcilliation- is that offer more or less conducive to further negotiations than "Its the freehold of the Ricoh or nothing" as reported by Joy circa 10 days ago?

As is often the case on this board, just because I don't fancy Katie Price, doesn't mean I want a go on Maggie Thatcher!

i.e. SISU's current position is indeed ridiculous hardball, but to suggest part of the reason for us ending up at this stage has been caused by the other 'side' and their actions, doesn't deny that position either.

 

[cochese]

29th January was 10 months ago- respectfully lots of water has passed by.... and so accepting that legal protocol wasnt followed in that the £150,000 / annum offer from ACL wasnt through the administrator- but taking it at face value and as an offer of reconcilliation- is that offer more or less conducive to further negotiations than "Its the freehold of the Ricoh or nothing" as reported by Joy circa 10 days ago?

Just over 8 months, but I'll let it slide. It's all very well offering a rent of £150000, a year but the club would still remain without any assets. No assets, nothing to sell to a new buyer. SISU would be stuck with a football club that still doesn't own it's ground. Further more the full terms aren't known, to me at least. would we get any commercial sales in that deal? Parking? Food?

The need for the freehold is because a leasehold is not ownership. It's asset value is significantly less than the freehold. Again, with a freehold, they have an asset they can sell with the club to a potential buyer.

Just because SISU bought a club without owning a ground, don't assume that another buyer will do the same.

 

[skybluefred]

No, a club loses money if it lives beyond its means, and spends money on costs it shouldn't.



So you want the club to live more beyond its means?!? Did the Richardson/Robinson years teach you nothing?!?

Would you say that the two R's lost money during their ownership of CCFC,I very much doubt it.Even when Robinson
sold it we still had gates circa 20,000 and investment then would have seen a return to the premiership gravytrain.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Would you say that the two R's lost money during their ownership of CCFC,I very much doubt it.Even when Robinson
sold it we still had gates circa 20,000 and investment then would have seen a return to the premiership gravytrain.

So you're seriously telling me it was a good idea to pay Paul Williams £18k a week, and this is the way to successful football financial management and having a club on an even keel?!?

 

[DaleM]

No, a club loses money if it lives beyond its means, and spends money on costs it shouldn't.



So you want the club to live more beyond its means?!? Did the Richardson/Robinson years teach you nothing?!?

I personally wouldn't give two hoots if CCFC lived beyond it's means as long as the end result is the Premier League . Then we could join all the other clubs up there who live beyond there means

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I personally wouldn't give two hoots if CCFC lived beyond it's means as long as the end result is the Premier League . Then we could join all the other clubs up there who live beyond there means

...and then go bust when we get relegated, and move to another city!

Give me a well run club that builds from a solid base any day and has a hope of actually sustaining its position, than one which spunks money at a problem on the gamble of success, with severe consequences if it fails.

This is in fact, surely why we're annoyed at SISU now, that they spunked money on Westwood, Best (paying the debts owed), Eastwood, Dann, Fox... rather than spending money on the infrastructure, such as the ground!

 

[skybluefred]

So you're seriously telling me it was a good idea to pay Paul Williams £18k a week, and this is the way to successful football financial management and having a club on an even keel?!?

From a personal point of view I wouldn't pay anybody £18k a week for kicking a football about. The CCFC manager at the
time must have thought Paul Williams was worth it although obviously you wouldn't agree.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

From a personal point of view I wouldn't pay anybody £18k a week for kicking a football about. The CCFC manager at the
time must have thought Paul Williams was worth it although obviously you wouldn't agree.

Our current position, the lack of ownership of everything fundamental to a club (bar a training ground, and even then McGinnity tried to flog that too!) is a pretty big testimony to how he wasn't worth it!

 

[DaleM]

...and then go bust when we get relegated, and move to another city!

Give me a well run club that builds from a solid base any day and has a hope of actually sustaining its position, than one which spunks money at a problem on the gamble of success, with severe consequences if it fails.

This is in fact, surely why we're annoyed at SISU now, that they spunked money on Westwood, Best (paying the debts owed), Eastwood, Dann, Fox... rather than spending money on the infrastructure, such as the ground!

We got relegated because SISU kept a totally inept manager in charge and sold our top goalscorer in January.

Spunked money ? Dann and Fox turned a profit didn't they ? Some of the others contracts were allowed to run down so we didn't get a fee.

Look at us now. 3rd division and still haven't got a pot to piss in . I would rather be PL without a pot to piss in.The parachute payments alone would more than cover the investment needed to get up there.

I am sure we have had this convo before . The rent was 6 million out of a debt of 60 to 70 million over the 5 years Sisu have been in charge.


Where has the rest of the money gone ? Exactly how much in management fees have Sisu payed themselves ? Is it more than the rent ?

 

[skybluefred]

...and then go bust when we get relegated, and move to another city!

Give me a well run club that builds from a solid base any day and has a hope of actually sustaining its position, than one which spunks money at a problem on the gamble of success, with severe consequences if it fails.

This is in fact, surely why we're annoyed at SISU now, that they spunked money on Westwood, Best (paying the debts owed), Eastwood, Dann, Fox... rather than spending money on the infrastructure, such as the ground!

Didn't they spurn the chance of buying the ground when they took over,and before CCC realised what type of Company
they are.Certainly not one to do business with as Rupert Lowe pointed out when he showed them the door at Southampton---and look at them now.