shmmeee
Well-Known Member
As always, put better than I could manage.
A quick sum (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Maupet
- Start date
As always, put better than I could manage.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
I was more getting at the fact that if they had of carried out their due dilligence when purchasing the club, we wouldn't be in Northampton....
Astute
Well-Known Member
So you are shit at maths as well then?
A 1.2m rent paid for itself. Would cost more to build. Losing much more in Northampton. They say we are 70m in debt after 6 years. We all know they didn't pay the rent, but if they had the rent would have cost 7.2m.
Their management fees have been 2.5m a year. More than twice what the rent was. Interest payments of 1.2m a year.....the same as the rent was. They paid about 4m in rent out of a total of 70m. Now tell me where the crime is?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Oh that's odd James didn't ACL declare an administration order and the only reason sisu put the club into administration was to get their preferred choice of administrator?
Fact - yes or no?
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
What figures or proof do you have that the debt is considerably less, please advise ?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Your mixing up ACL and the freehold. You're also conveniently forgetting that the Higgs share was available so cheap because of the deal struck on sale (and that in the name of good will Higgs knocked more off that price). Now that deal is void due to CCFC Ltd being liquidated you're paying market rate. And god knows what that is, but it's certainly more than the previous offer.
£70m seems a bit high for our debt to me, but it was certainly £60m in the summer and with low gates, legal fees and the standard management and interest fees another £5-10m seems not too far off the mark.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Try again.
If SISUE hadn't tried to send ACL to the wall we wouldn't be in Northampton.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So what is the total debt? Are you saying that Appleton lied when doing the administration?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Conjecture not fact. You have no idea why Sisu did what they did.
I and many others think the refusal to defend the legal action shows that admin was their wish all along. You may think different, but neither are fact.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Not as shit as you are at reading by the sounds of it.
Shame you've got so touchy about it though. Hey ho.
Read this next bit slowly and try and comprehend the words, and only these words that I type: Had SISU carried out proper due dilligence when purchasing CCFC, they should've realised the potential risk of further releagtion/s, resulting in a loss of income, meaning bills would be harder to pay. One of the largest fixed costs when they took over was rent. Had they considered this at the time, they might have done a number of things - a.) not purchased the club at all, b.) started rent reduction discussions then or c.) start Ricoh purchasing enquiries then.
Ok...do you get that? If not, I'm not going to spell it out any clearer. That's my thoughts on the matter...don't let your own agenda get in the way of what I've typed above.
WM
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
AAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH! This all happened after they COULD'VE CARRIED OUT BETTER DUE DILLIGENCE!!!!
Jesus Christ Astute, do I need to draw you a picture?
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Or how did Fisher put it ccfc were put into admin for a mere 300k ?
Have Sisu/arvo not got 300k ?
If they have then admin could easily have been avoided ?
Fact yes or no ???
Astute
Well-Known Member
You say we are in Northampton because SISUE paid about 4m rent out of a debt of 70m. They will have lost close to 4m by the end of the season by keeping us in Northampton. We could be playing rent free for this season and 100k the next two. So it is nothing to do with the rent. Even if there wasn't a rent free offer and 100k for the next two seasons it would be worth more money to SISUE by paying 1.2m a year rent.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
I genuinely couldn't remember the details of the 'Higgs Share' offer, so cheers for pointing me in the right direction Shmmeee.
I'm confident that my original point still stands though. Anyone who thinks a club without a stadium is a better option to buy, than a club with a stadium, needs to head back to the men in white coats.
WM
Astute
Well-Known Member
Yes. It might do better than coming out with poor excuses for SISUE on why we are playing in Northampton.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
And that is where the problem lies. Had the realised it was a problem then or done something about it at the point where they were purchasing the club, we'd still be in Coventry. Maybe not with SISU, but still in Coventry.
WM
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Send me packing then.
The stadium mortgage payments will cripple us and make us unbuyable IMO.
It's not as simple as "Freehold good, Leasehold bad".
We need access to revenues and we need a manageable payment on the stadium each year. We already pay £1.2m/year to ARVO in interest, I don't think any more is a good idea. Especially when you have the council by the balls right now and could probably end up with the cheapest rent in the league thanks to this debacle.
Astute
Well-Known Member
We all agree with this. But who would pay what SISUE would want plus the price of paying for the Ricoh for a third division football club?
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
I've not excused them once for playing in Northampton? Again, your reading is MUCH shitter than my maths old boy.
WM
Astute
Well-Known Member
I am glad your maths work for you. Just a shame they won't work out for any possible purchaser.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
shmmeee.....Conjecture not fact. You have no idea why Sisu did what they did. I and many others think the refusal to defend the legal action shows that admin was their wish all along. You may think different, but neither are fact.....................................................................................................................................You're not saying that Grenduffy is......making a, guess, speculation, surmise, fancy, notion, belief, suspicion, presumption, assumption, theory, hypothesis, postulation, supposition, Estimation; or More as a fact. Are you?
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
You've just spent the best part of 30 mins disagreeing with me!
As for your question Astute, I don't know the answer to that. A vision/hope I hang on to is that with SP at the helm, we somehow manage to get to the Prem in 5 years and by that time, we'll be back playing in Cov. The value of the club at that point could be much, much more than SISU are owed and they'll then sell up.
However, none of us have any clue about which direction the club is heading (off the pitch anyway). It's all pure conjecture.
WM
Astute
Well-Known Member
I agreed with that any club that has their own stadium is more of a better option to buy. But when you look at the asking price........
Our outgoings are low other than the management fees and interest payments payable to SISUE. If we were renting the Ricoh we would be making money other than the 3.7m they charge us each season. A long term cheap rent is about the same as owning a ground. But they don't want this. The big question is why?
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Fair question, don't disagree with you on that.
WM
WM
Astute
Well-Known Member
Don't want to argue with anyone on here. But the numbers just don't work out. Cheap rental wins all day long against putting 25m or more debt against our club. So Appleton and Timothy say we are in debt by 70m. Add the price of a new ground or buying the ricoh on top plus a year of fees owed to SISUE and the debt becomes 100m. I can't even see us going for that much as a Prem side. And we are miles away from that.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Yes ACL did apply for an administration order against Ltd. relating to £1.3m unpaid rent, they didn't actually put us into Admin. Sisu put us into Admin on "Black Thursday" beating the High Court case scheduled for the next day. At any point before the case was due in court Sisu could have paid and we might not be playing in Northampton. I can't comment on who wanted what administrator as I wasn't involved - nor were any of us were we?
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skybluefred
New Member
Yes but any new club started would be playing five league's lower than now. That rules out them buying the Ricoh
and leaves sisu with a white Elephant.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Whoever puts the business into administration can appoint the administrator. Sisu called it late and we got their puppet.
albatross
Well-Known Member
SIS do not have to have the money in order to buy the Ricoh just a means to service the debt. How many of you had the money to purchase your house the glazers didn't to purchase Man Utd. All SISU need is to be able to purchase an asset at an advantageous price the purchase will be leveraged especially as the cost of borrowing money is at an all time low.
This is all a red herring. In order for them to get the assets as cheap as possible. Marry that with a potential premier league tenant with annual revenue streams in excess of £30m per annum and additional land to develop and a successful arena business, all in all a very nice package.
SISU are only interested in CCFC as part of their bigger plan, at this point CCFC are their only way to construct the deal and they can rely on us to cloud business logic with emotions and sentiment.
They are clear thinker only interested in the end package and the Profit. the arena and club separate are certainly wort much less that the whole thing p[ackaged together. The only this that SISU are waiting for is the right price
This is all a red herring. In order for them to get the assets as cheap as possible. Marry that with a potential premier league tenant with annual revenue streams in excess of £30m per annum and additional land to develop and a successful arena business, all in all a very nice package.
SISU are only interested in CCFC as part of their bigger plan, at this point CCFC are their only way to construct the deal and they can rely on us to cloud business logic with emotions and sentiment.
They are clear thinker only interested in the end package and the Profit. the arena and club separate are certainly wort much less that the whole thing p[ackaged together. The only this that SISU are waiting for is the right price
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
I'm not sticking up for them Sk. In my opinion (and others see it differently- which is what a forum is all about), all I've said, repeatedly, is that I think we're a more attractive proposition for a new buyer with a stadium, than without and that they messed up with their due diligence when they bought the club.
I can't see how that's sticking up for them?
WM
runner
Active Member
Whilst I agree the numbers have been done to death ... the reality is the numbers do stack up and the best thing SISU could do is take the offer of very discounted rent for 2 or 3 years, take advantage of them and in the meantime build a new stadium, the one they keep promising to build ... it's of no business sense to not take this offer.
Even if Pressley is the best manager in the history of any sport we are not getting into the premiership while we are in northampton, not to mention the fact if he were that good we'd lose him.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
From where I'm standing I'd say the SISU interpretation of 'the right price' is 'a wrong and wholly unacceptable price'