SCG minutes... (16 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

What is he not clear on? To check I wasn’t missing something I’ve shown it to a few people at work and everyone understood it to mean that the council won’t be providing financial support.

This seems to be his new tactic, keep saying everything isn't clear and there's confusion. Mentions it multiple times according to those minutes. Yet most other people seem to have no problem understanding all these points which leaves 2 options a) he's lying or b) he's not up to the job.

 

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[Jack Griffin]

This seems to be his new tactic, keep saying everything isn't clear and there's confusion. Mentions it multiple times according to those minutes. Yet most other people seem to have no problem understanding all these points which leaves 2 options a) he's lying or b) he's not up to the job.

It seems to me that the only person really confused here is Mark Labovich..

PW – there are plants all over the place. Weber Shandwick are paid to do this. They’ve been paid a lot but they’ve performed. They’vecaused you more problems than anybody.

As for this comment, I suspect rather that the plants are from SISU's PR people, it seems to me that Sandra Garlick may be a plant, she is after all involved in business PR up to her neck.

 

[skybluetony176]

Just out if interest James why are you so passionate about defending ACL and the councils position yet never seem to offer an opinion on nostalgic posts about the club at all?

That sounds like grendull talk for "I can't dispute any of that so as there's no angle to blame ccc I'll insinuate that he's a ccc/acl wum"

How about you counter he's argument with your "superior" intellect and tell us all what ML was really saying and how this means it's all ccc's fault?

I dare you!

 

[Astute]

This seems to be his new tactic, keep saying everything isn't clear and there's confusion. Mentions it multiple times according to those minutes. Yet most other people seem to have no problem understanding all these points which leaves 2 options a) he's lying or b) he's not up to the job.

May I suggest both A and B?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

It took 2 minutes for someone to start defending ACL.

Why defend ML??? I was always told that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones! More fool him if he gets egg on his face.


PUSB

 

[James Smith]

Just out if interest James why are you so passionate about defending ACL and the councils position yet never seem to offer an opinion on nostalgic posts about the club at all?

I'm not sure that I was defending ACL or the council I was just pointing out that there were things said that aren't backed up by fact. We don't know about the current state of ACL and their finances or for that matter those of the club.

For the first time in as long as I can remember our club has no home in the city that it is named after. Personally I'd like to have a club that I can support now and in the future but if we don't do something about the current situation that isn't guaranteed. If only Sisu had negotiated (preferably at the time they acquired the club) we probably wouldn't be playing to our smallest home crowds over 30 miles from our city.

I once heard Gordon Strachan at Highfield Road being asked by a fan what he thought of a decision by the previous weeks ref. GS said something like you can't fight past matches again and we need to concentrate on the future ones that we can.

 

[sky blue john]

James you summed it up perfectly.
It really amazes me how many times i hear someone from ccc, Acl, higgs slagging off Sisu/Otium to the point of confusion !!!!

 

[shmmeee]

Seems like Labovitch is after a bit of character assassination.

Well to assassinate his, all I need is his employment history:

1994-2003 - MD of Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein - Investment Bank (need I say more) had lawsuits against it for systematic discrimination against women, and for hundreds of millions of pounds for refusing to pay bonus payments.
2006-2009 - Director of Independent New & Media PLC - Media company. More dodgy boardroom history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_News_%26_Media#Controversies
2010-2011 - Firerush Ventures - Tony Blair's Investment Firm (need I say more). Moved money around companies to avoid tax (allegedly) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262174/Web-companies-hides-Tony-Blair-millions.html

Current "Employment":

- CCFC - Non-Executive Director
- GEMS Ventures - CEO. A Cayman Islands based company, the highest result on Google is Labovitch's LinkedIn profile. So let's assume it's not a bricks and mortar enterprise. Why on earth would you base this company in the tax haven of the Cayman Islands I wonder?
- The Club of Three (Institute for Strategic Dialogue) - Can't find much, but are a "think tank" that appear to consist of media types, military types, political types and banker types. Make of that what you will
[h=4][/h]So excuse me if I take this:

I wouldn’t make myself unemployable by being a director of a company owned by an outfit that was dodgy.

with a pinch of salt. Your business activities may well be legal Labovitch, but I'm not sure they're something I'd use to lend credibility to Sisu as anything other than another money hungry, "networking", jobs for the boys type institution. (IMO)

 

[shmmeee]

double post.

 

[Grendel]

James you summed it up perfectly.
It really amazes me how many times i hear someone from ccc, Acl, higgs slagging off Sisu/Otium to the point of confusion !!!!

Hell would freeze over before that happened wouldn't it?

 

[sky blue john]

Hell would freeze over before that happened wouldn't it?

See if you can come up with three ?

 

[Grendel]

See if you can come up with three ?

Is this a game?

Actions speak louder than words I think.

Administration, clumsily attempting to change owners, rejecting a CVA, charging 10 times the average rent, forcing the club to fund ACL in its infancy, offering subsequent reduced rental deals which when finer print is scrutinised appear not so attractive, employing expensive PR companies to carefully word all their statements....no you are right they are great.



Rejecting

 

[Grendel]

So you can't have any points to disagree on what he has posted then.

Well one of James comments is that a comment is being made about ACL's accounts that suggests they may be experience financial difficulty. The motivation it is suggested is to create uncertainty and there is no evidence that such financial issues exist.

 

[Monners]

Grendel - lighten up oh great jaundiced one!

 

[skybluefred]

Fair enough. But what if they bought Higgs share and then the council refused to negotiate? They would have spent £5m and not really gained anything (I believe ACL has a 5-man board and the Higgs share would give them 2 board places - which would mean they could technically be outvoted on any decisions).

Do not forget the CCC/ACL can block any sale of the Higgs share,and Higgs can block any sale of the CCC/ACL share.

 

[Como]

Who are the Long Distance Supporters that Jonathen Strange is representing?

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Who are the Long Distance Supporters that Jonathen Strange is representing?

Coventry based

 

[James Smith]

Well one of James comments is that a comment is being made about ACL's accounts that suggests they may be experience financial difficulty. The motivation it is suggested is to create uncertainty and there is no evidence that such financial issues exist.

My comments were about future as yet unpublished ACL accounts that Mr Labovitch is speculating on. How does he know what is going on in the ACL accounts any more than PWKH knows what is going on in the Otium accounts?

 

[skybluetony176]

Is this a game?

Actions speak louder than words I think.

Administration, clumsily attempting to change owners, rejecting a CVA, charging 10 times the average rent, forcing the club to fund ACL in its infancy, offering subsequent reduced rental deals which when finer print is scrutinised appear not so attractive, employing expensive PR companies to carefully word all their statements....no you are right they are great.



Rejecting

administration? was the media reports that sisu appointed Paul Appleton as administrator incorrect? clearly i'm not an intellect like you but i always thought that the person putting the company into administration appointed the administrator?

clumsily attempting to change owners? did they? i don't know one way or the other and neither do you. its speculation at best and we all know you don't deal in speculation, especially when other people use it as an argument against you.

rejecting a CVA? ask yourself why where they in a position to reject the CVA, Oooo! that's right someone put the club in administration. remind me again who was that?

charging 10 times the average rent? what is the average rent? where is your source? plus what is the average management fee's that clubs get charged? ours are double what the rent was and therefore a bigger financial burden on the club yet these never seem to concern you as much, infact i struggle to think of a single post where you even mention them let alone question them. still not to worry, they are not charged by ccc so surely cant be a real financial drain on the club.

forcing the club to fund ACL in its infancy? care to elaborate? i would be interested to hear what brought you to this conclusion?

offering subsequent reduced rental deals which when finer print is scrutinised appear not so attractive? they are moving in the right direction though and a good basis for negotiations to begin. instead sisu first of all said no offer had been made, David Conn made us aware that it was made through the FL, sisu then said that no direct offer had been made. at the end of the day its better than staying in Northampton playing to crowds of 2000 at best and hard to argue that it doesn't offer better financial rewards for the club. in other words it offers the club more revenue, isn't this what its supposed to be all about?

employing expensive PR companies to carefully word all their statements? hard to see how this works against CCFC but still i guess they needed to do something to counter the skills of 1 man PR machine ML.

so apart from SP what have Sisu ever done for us?

 

[Godiva]

My comments were about future as yet unpublished ACL accounts that Mr Labovitch is speculating on. How does he know what is going on in the ACL accounts any more than PWKH knows what is going on in the Otium accounts?

TBF sisu have already scrutinized ACL's books (did due dilligence back in 2012) and I don't think it's too difficult for their financial experts to guesstimate where ACL are financially today.
ACL have never had access to the SBS&L group's books ... only the accounts which isn't the same.
So sisu are actually in a better position to speculate.
(It's up to you if you believe ML when he speculate that ACL may be short of cash or not).

 

[Godiva]

so apart from SP what have Sisu ever done for us?

Relieved the club from the super expensive 42year lease?

 

[skybluetony176]

Relieved the club from the super expensive 42year lease?

by moving us to Northampton 34miles away, yeah, cheers Sisu.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Relieved the club from the super expensive 42year lease?

Which they could have renegotiated or bought the ground but forgot "we batter people in court" :thinking about:By the way wonder if little old BT have had the letter yet

 

[Godiva]

Which they could have renegotiated or bought the ground but forgot "we batter people in court" :thinking about:

The JR could reveal a few nasty surprises for you.

 

[limoncello]

Absolving all the other parties responsible for this mess of any blame may make you feel better, but it achieves absolutely nothing.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

The JR could reveal a few nasty surprises for you.

Here's the thing my friend I don't care what the result of the Jr is my hatred and thats what it is I have for Sisu and in particular Tim Fisher is personal.

 

[skybluetony176]

The JR could reveal a few nasty surprises for you.

it also could not. the judge may make comments like this again

"Ms Seppala was the least satisfactory of all the witnesses. In making my general comments above, I said that no-one was deliberately lying. But I fear Ms Seppala has a distorted recollection of some events – particularly about what happened at the meetings in New York in January 2005 – and, with the benefit of hindsight, has introduced a "spin" (I am sorry not to be able to find a better word) which suits the Applicants' case. She is also prone to exaggerate – the Respondents would characterise it as lying, but I give her the benefit of the doubt on that – for instance her suggestion (eventually withdrawn by her) that Mr Wallace had "continually" represented to the Applicants that the RCF Banks had a strong direct claim against TXU Corp when in fact he never said that at all. She also recollects (and she may well have believed what she was saying) events which did not, as I conclude, take place (namely a conversation with Mr Wallace "in a small room" and Mr Olin reading and explaining a position paper in New York on 11 January 2005). She is, I am quite sure, an astute and effective business woman. I totally reject her description of herself as naïve. I am quite sure that she was closely involved in developments as the representative of SISU as a Committee Creditor. But she had many other business matters on her mind and when it came to producing her witness statement and giving her oral evidence, her recollection was not, I think, as accurate as she would like to make out."

none off us know, but hopefully it will be an end to the bluffing and finally everyone will put there cards on the table.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Absolving all the other parties responsible for this mess of any blame may make you feel better, but it achieves absolutely nothing.

I take it that was for me? If it was what exactly are we achieving at the moment? I really want to know.

 

[Grendel]

Here's the thing my friend I don't care what the result of the Jr is my hatred and thats what it is I have for Sisu and in particular Tim Fisher is personal.

Are you the Terminator?

 

[Grendel]

it also could not. the judge may make comments like this again

"Ms Seppala was the least satisfactory of all the witnesses. In making my general comments above, I said that no-one was deliberately lying. But I fear Ms Seppala has a distorted recollection of some events – particularly about what happened at the meetings in New York in January 2005 – and, with the benefit of hindsight, has introduced a "spin" (I am sorry not to be able to find a better word) which suits the Applicants' case. She is also prone to exaggerate – the Respondents would characterise it as lying, but I give her the benefit of the doubt on that – for instance her suggestion (eventually withdrawn by her) that Mr Wallace had "continually" represented to the Applicants that the RCF Banks had a strong direct claim against TXU Corp when in fact he never said that at all. She also recollects (and she may well have believed what she was saying) events which did not, as I conclude, take place (namely a conversation with Mr Wallace "in a small room" and Mr Olin reading and explaining a position paper in New York on 11 January 2005). She is, I am quite sure, an astute and effective business woman. I totally reject her description of herself as naïve. I am quite sure that she was closely involved in developments as the representative of SISU as a Committee Creditor. But she had many other business matters on her mind and when it came to producing her witness statement and giving her oral evidence, her recollection was not, I think, as accurate as she would like to make out."

none off us know, but hopefully it will be an end to the bluffing and finally everyone will put there cards on the table.

What was the outcome of that case? Was she convicted of something?

 

[limoncello]

I take it that was for me? If it was what exactly are we achieving at the moment? I really want to know.

Nothing. As I said. Until we scream blue murder at all the greedy self-interested tossers who got us into this mess we will achieve nothing. But no, we direct our ire at Sixfields scum and ACoLytes.

 

[Godiva]

Here's the thing my friend I don't care what the result of the Jr is my hatred and thats what it is I have for Sisu and in particular Tim Fisher is personal.

I know. And I feel for you.
But if you do not allow your self to have doubts - you will be stuck.
Imagine if the JR reveal that sisu and ccc actually had a joint plan to let the club buy ACL and that it was ccc who reneged on that agreement and that everything following was simply a chain of events?
In that case you will still be self-exiled from the club ... your club ... for how many years? Possible the rest of your life.
NONE of us knows ALL the facts - there is plenty of room for doubts.

 

[James Smith]

TBF sisu have already scrutinized ACL's books (did due dilligence back in 2012) and I don't think it's too difficult for their financial experts to guesstimate where ACL are financially today.

I agree that Sisu will have seen the ACL books back in 2012 but that's a long time ago, and supposedly ACL have got it together since then. Again though we don't know all the facts, and possibly that includes Mr Labovitch.

ACL have never had access to the SBS&L group's books ... only the accounts which isn't the same.
So sisu are actually in a better position to speculate.
(It's up to you if you believe ML when he speculate that ACL may be short of cash or not).

To be fair ACL as far as I know haven't speculated in publicon how much money the Club/Sisu have.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Nothing. As I said. Until we scream blue murder at all the greedy self-interested tossers who got us into this mess we will achieve nothing. But no, we direct our ire at Sixfields scum and ACoLytes.

Excuse me when have I called Sixfields attendees scum? How many times have I encouraged people to take their kids? So dont come on here insinuating that I am part of the "we" in your last sentence.

 

[cloughie]

No need to explain.

Yes, no need to explain,

you have nailed your colours to the sisu mast yet again.....after along time of sitting on the fence