So if you think it is reasonable for the Council/ACL to be "hard nosed and heartless" but Its Only Business, then I assume you can understand SISU doing just the same?
ACL out protest (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter covpete
- Start date
So if you think it is reasonable for the Council/ACL to be "hard nosed and heartless" but Its Only Business, then I assume you can understand SISU doing just the same?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
That would be why I put "on both sides" then wouldn't it
Never said I liked it on either side
Never said I liked it on either side
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RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
It has to be said that I agree to an extent with the OP, more pressure does need to be applied to ACL/CCC then what currently has been, we can sing "back to the Ricoh" towards our owners but it's not helping, ACL/CCC need to feel the heat as well and that is where the protests will fail as it's all one sided against the owners and CCC can look back and smile in that respect.
duffer
Well-Known Member
Absolutely.
I know this phrase is often used as a wind-up, and I don't intend it as that, but I am genuinely struggling to see what the complaint is here.
CCFC don't play at the Ricoh any more. I wish they did, but they don't. ACL are a business, and need to bring money in. I don't think this was designed to wind up fans - I think the point of it was to bring in a bit of cash.
I can't see how it threatens the club in any way, and it honestly wouldn't bother me if it was Leicester or Blues or Villa u21's/reserves using the pitch on this kind of ad hoc basis. Short of bringing in another 'franchise', i.e. stealing a team from their home town, I don't care who uses the Ricoh at the moment. Until CCFC come back, what does it matter?
Perhaps I'm missing something.
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
A few on here recently have suggested that more pressure/protest needs to be directed at ACL/CCC, what exactly is it you are asking for and what realistically do you expect them to do or be able to do bearing in mind the restrictions based on them? Can they do offer more than they already have done?
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
I think that most of us always expected a hedge fund / private equity fund to be "hard nosed and heartless".
The issue is that we (or at least, I) expected them to be competent.
In this context, my definition of competent would include - not destroying your customer base, not minimising your revenue, etc etc
lewys33
Well-Known Member
I dont think we can apply pressure their way unless there is a reasonable offer on the table?
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
There needs to be more Clarity from Ann Lucas that's for sure, Lucas goes on about trying to get the best deal for Coventry but actually you can't negotiate bugger all with her or that's what she said on the Breakfast show with Shane O'Connor, so why mess everyone's time thinking that she negotiate for what the Club want?
Cheshire Sky Blue
New Member
covpete. Leicester U21 played one game at the RICOH as their usual pitch was waterlogged. As far as I am aware there is no agreement for them to "move in". So if I have missed that I am sure you will direct me to where the agreement is reported.
Apart from that could you explain how the council and Higgs would be able to come to an agreement with SISU if ACL were 'out of the picture' when it is the Council and Higgs who joint owners of ACL?
Warwickhunt
Well-Known Member
And how does getting their PR boys exploiting the fact that they have signed on a team to play at the RICOH for £1800 a match makes you think ACL are trying to pay its own way when they were charging us £23,000 per match!!!! Its all bullshit from ACL, CCC, & SISU point scoring load of twats the lot of em would'dt piss on them if they were on fire
Warwickhunt
Well-Known Member
So why dont they offer CCFC the option to pay £1800 per match + parking at £3.00 I am sure that Otium would sign a 3 year deal on those terms until they build a friggin stadium
Cheshire Sky Blue
New Member
I think that CCC and Ann Lucas have been very clear in what they can do legally and what they are prepared to do commercially. The problem is that this does not suit SISU. Who want everything for nothing. I firmly believe that the only way that this will get resolved is when the JR eventually after years of litigation falls in CCC favour and SISU will then go. Alas not before completely destroying CCFC.
duffer
Well-Known Member
The thing is, there's a very clear and obvious thing to protest about with regard to the owners. The simple fact is that they could bring the team back to the Ricoh and still do all the things that they seem to want to do (negotiate to purchase freehold or bits of ACL, or even build a new ground). And they could do that and still make more money for the club than they are making now. But they won't. I think that deserves challenge at every opportunity, and it's a protest with a clear aim; bring the club home.
With regard to the Council, what exactly are we asking for:
Sell ACL?
The council don't own or have a controlling interest of ACL. It's not clear that SISU even want to buy ACL, they seem to prefer it to be liquidated.
Sell the encumbered freehold?
It seems that this might be open to offer, but again it doesn't seem this is enough for SISU.
Sell the unencumbered freehold?
As above, the council don't own ACL, or the other tenants at the arena. So they'd have to break leases, and compensate those tenants. By law, they also have to maximise returns on the sales, and can't be seen to favour one party over another.
So - what exactly would we demand from the council, what would our protest ask for?
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
If it was me personally I'd like to start by knowing what financial impact leaving the Ricoh has had on local businesses, because although we centre on the CCC/CCFC fiasco there are probably other businesses losing out somewhere, like public houses, etc.
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
I thought she was quite clear about what could be done bearing in mind all the current contracts in place. It is not like just selling a car where you hand the keys over and its yours, it is a lot more complex than that. She has been clear on what she can and cannot sell. We have heard the terms freehold, leasehold, encumbered, unencumbered and lots more to boot, but these are all goalposts being moved by Sisu and not ACL/CCC because their position has always been, come and make us a sensible offer. As I said though, what do you and others on here want ACL/CCC to actually do with regards to ownership of the Ricoh? You talk about negotiation but to my mind, all we have seen so far is ACL/CCC make offers to Sisu about playing at the Ricoh and make offers to speak to Sisu, but as yet no negotiation offers from Sisu, no offers from Sisu for anything to do with the Ricoh, just noise from Labovitch (which when you talk about clarity, this is a good place to start)
There absolutely will be serious financial implications for some businesses, quite hard to compile this data though and I don't see how it makes any difference to anything? its just another stick you should be using to beat sisu with. It's absolutely not one to beat acl or the council with, especially after rent free play was offered.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
lot of people keep saying put pressure on ACL/CCC, and I am not saying there shouldn't be, but to do what specifically. Unless there is a clear achievable objective then it is just a group of people standing outside the council house or Ricoh saying bring out team home (just like fans in the stands at games - and can be ignored by SISU/CCFC/CCC/ACL in much the same way)....... strikes me the only way it happens is if they (CCC/ACL) agree to the SISU terms, and why should, would or could they do that ....... the business case is from ACL/CCC/Charity point of view is?. We can all buy in to it makes sense for the club (although you do not in my opinion) to own freehold, it certainly makes sense for the owners (if bought relatively cheaply or by legal settlement) but what about the other side to this, does it stack up?
SISU want (need?) the unencumbered or unfettered freehold with no ACL ..... you have to believe them when they say that don't you? Similarly CCC say it is not for sale and as they own it then they are within rights to say what is and is not for sale. They will look at selling the site as it stands for market value (not an average that is likely to be less than the valuation advice they are given). Could SISU rent the site? apparently not because they don't trust the council/ACL - surely it is about getting the contracts right that make it work not whether you trust them? ACL are happy apparently to offer a rent deal of some kind but yet do not trust SISU, still willing to deal though, SISU wont rent (well not at the Ricoh)..... so any pressure by fans on ACL is pointless really as they can only offer rent. The only people who fundamentally control where CCFC play are the owners (and to some degree the FL). If no deal at Ricoh - which seems there is not- then they had better get on with the build some where very close to Coventry as a matter of urgency. Nothing tangible to say that build is happening though is there.
So the pressure on CCC/ACL to do what specifically?
SISU want (need?) the unencumbered or unfettered freehold with no ACL ..... you have to believe them when they say that don't you? Similarly CCC say it is not for sale and as they own it then they are within rights to say what is and is not for sale. They will look at selling the site as it stands for market value (not an average that is likely to be less than the valuation advice they are given). Could SISU rent the site? apparently not because they don't trust the council/ACL - surely it is about getting the contracts right that make it work not whether you trust them? ACL are happy apparently to offer a rent deal of some kind but yet do not trust SISU, still willing to deal though, SISU wont rent (well not at the Ricoh)..... so any pressure by fans on ACL is pointless really as they can only offer rent. The only people who fundamentally control where CCFC play are the owners (and to some degree the FL). If no deal at Ricoh - which seems there is not- then they had better get on with the build some where very close to Coventry as a matter of urgency. Nothing tangible to say that build is happening though is there.
So the pressure on CCC/ACL to do what specifically?
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That fictional build 'somewhere close to Coventry' will not unite the fans though and SISU know that yet again they are dividing their target customer base and will not profit. Their only hope is to sue their opponents into submission and even if they won that way they will alienate a lot of decent people.
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
The rent free was only offered after City had left, if ACL had made the offer way back when we might not of been in this situation.. I am not saying either side should be held accountable in this instance, I just think it would be interesting information is all.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Can you offer a rent free deal to someone who isn't paying any rent?
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Wasn't the reason McGinnity offered for not doing a Leicester and putting us into Admin something like all the local suppliers and businesses would lose money and be far less likely to work with us again?
So what is stopping you then? There are plenty of options available, a protest outside the Council House, or a protest at the Ricoh Arena, or stand at the local elections. If sufficient fans support your viewpoint then a protest shouldn't be too difficult to organise , the fact that the only protest outside the Council House drew such pitiful support suggest that overwhelmingly most fans do hold SISU mainly responsible.
Biggest thing stopping me from joining these protests is I have no idea what they are asking for.
They seem to be saying "do something, anything". Then ignoring that the Council have attempted things only for Sisu to fail to act. The protest against the Council comes across to me as more of a "I hate the Labour Party" rant then a "this is what they can and should be doing" protest. It could be a protest about anything the Council has done it is so disjointed.
These protests will only work if there was a clear message / solution / action that the Council could be pressured into making that was both within their power, and lawful, and equal pressure could be applied to Sisu to accept it.
It appears however that those that want to apply pressure to CCC / ACL have no clue what they want so are asking for what can't be delivered. The only people that could make a difference here is Sisu, pressure them to make a offer for what they want, as long as it is reasonable I will gladly go protest outside the Council House / ACL to get it accepted.
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Think the local businesses and suppliers he was concerned about losing money if we went into admin were himself and Geoffrey.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Very possibly
although it wouldn't just have affected them even if he & GR were his main concern.
Sterling Archer
Well-Known Member
Anybody who thinks GR and MM kept us out of admin for 'noble reasons to local businesses' unfortunately, is very very wrong.
duffer
Well-Known Member
I hear what you're saying, but the question was "So - what exactly would we demand from the council, what would our protest ask for?".
Apologies, but I don't think you've quite answered the question.
I think we can all guess that there have been local businesses hurt by all this - but it doesn't quite answer the question regarding what the focus of the protest should be, does it?
Again, not intending to have a cheap dig here, I'm genuinely wondering what the focus of a protest at the Council House would be.
Otis
Well-Known Member
hill83
Well-Known Member
What percentage do you want our club back home though?
Otis
Well-Known Member
At the moment 99.9%, but I am slowly working my way up to the magical footballing percentage of 110%!
RoboCCFC90
Well-Known Member
I did miss it apologies, I personally want Clarity on the situation from the Council, I don't think they've been open enough considering we pay x amount of Tax, although I can understand with the JR their hands tied slightly..
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Can you please elaborate on what you mean by clarity ?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Sounds like Labovitch this morning "We're not saying the council are hiding anything, but we want the council to stop hiding stuff" I mean seriously.
This is what's knows as a fishing expedition before the JR. Hope that something somewhere turns up a perceived impropriety and focus on that. If they had any evidence or even an inkling of what they're looking for they'd say so. It's not like they're slow to start throwing baseless accusations around.
The anger to the council is always generic "Grrr they should do more" without any specific details on what they should do. Then the complaint is "it's still not enough". I think it's just frustration at the club being out of the city making people turn on anyone in the hope of a resolution. Perhaps some feel it's easier to sway the council than Sisu (I've seen that argument put forward a lot).
