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[The Gentleman]

It takes more than one party to do a deal.

Doing that is like Sisu using bits of emails to suit there argument. If Sisu want the Ricoh then they need to pony the fuck up and show that they do instead of fucking about which my two recent posts to Ian were saying but you chose to post that, did you read my previous post to the one you took a snipet of where I said that Sisu make the offer and the ACL say yes, no or negotiate. Is that not implying that it would take two to do a deal?

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

It takes more than one party to want to make a deal for one to happen.

Indeed it does.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Doing that is like Sisu using bits of emails to suit there argument.

Not really, because there's too much wanting other parties to sit on their arse and wait.

Well if a football club is important, why not keep making an effort, why not actually talk to people, why not encourage other parties to attempt to find deals acceptable to the other?

Or are we encouraging a situation where we say you're quite right, no bugger should care about the football club in the city, no bugger should try anything?

 

[The Gentleman]

Not really, because there's too much wanting other parties to sit on their arse and wait.

Well if a football club is important, why not keep making an effort, why not actually talk to people, why not encourage other parties to attempt to find deals acceptable to the other?

Or are we encouraging a situation where we say you're quite right, no bugger should care about the football club in the city, no bugger should try anything?

Ok, since the end of last season we have had 2 offers from ACL (whether directly or indirectly it is 2 offers), we've had the council saying what they can and cannot do in terms of freehold, ownership and leasehold etc. What exactly have Sisu offered? Apart from an offer on an open forum from the prick that is Labovitch.

Also, have ACL and CCC not got other things to occupy them? What else should Otium be thinking about other than CCFC?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Why does 'what can ACL do?' have to be countered with 'what can SISU do?'

Yes, absolutely, the club should call their bluff and announce any offer they would be willing to accept. Yes absolutely, that should be told them.

That doesn't in any way say that there shouldn't be a call to council/ACL/Higgs/Higgs/Higgs/Higgs to do likewise, and actually stop pissing about with clever clever third party non offers, and make some efforts too.

As for ACL and CCC having other things to occupy them then no, ACL should not have anything to occupy them other than the football club! We are football fans too, so why the hell should we care about them building a hotel, while the club is a sideshow? Why justify the club being made a sideshow by any parties?

 

[The Gentleman]

Why does 'what can ACL do?' have to be countered with 'what can SISU do?'

Yes, absolutely, the club should call their bluff and announce any offer they would be willing to accept. Yes absolutely, that should be told them.

That doesn't in any way say that there shouldn't be a call to council/ACL/Higgs/Higgs/Higgs/Higgs to do likewise, and actually stop pissing about with clever clever third party non offers, and make some efforts too.

As for ACL and CCC having other things to occupy them then no, ACL should not have anything to occupy them other than the football club! We are football fans too, so why the hell should we care about them building a hotel, while the club is a sideshow? Why justify the club being made a sideshow by any parties?

Do you really think that CCFC should be top priority for CCC? Anyone is naive to think that is or even should be the case. At present ACL are a business that has an arena that has a large piece of grass in it. I am sure as you are that ACL would love to see CCFC playing there and all this talk about ACL/CCC not wanting the club to succeed or even play there is bollocks. The first offer to the administrator was done as he was the football club at that time, the second offer through the FL was done in a way to prove it was done. Did Sisu try and say that there wasn't an offer at first so does that not tell you that they are not to be trusted? Fact is offers were made and if Sisu/Otium had anything about them they would have taken them up even if only to call ACL/CCC's bluff because the Arena would have nowhere to go if Sisu/Otium had said ok then, we'll have the deal and then go from there. But that would have taken Sisu/Otium to say yes, upto now all we have had from them is bollocks.

 

[thelookout]

Of course only SISU can bring us back, and ultimately it is them that have to have the will to do it. I can't understand why we are having all this bluster for a new stadium. The Ricoh is perfectly viable. The club does however need to have control of it's financial destiny. We can hate SISU all we want, but you cannot escape the fact that they are right about that part.

As for criticising the FL, it's all the fashionable thing to do. But in reality they have no control. Money is power, and they have about as much as we do. Sky and the PL run football in this country, and people can call the league not fit and proper, toothless and anything else but they can only work within the parameters of the law. Look at the Leeds situation to tell you exactly that. If they work outside of the law they will be sued to pieces and will be broke

One thing I will be critical of the FL is the way they structured the giving the GS. What I wish they had done is say that it will be reviewed at the end of each season, and you have to demonstrate progress in order to keep hold of it for the next season. Maybe if that had been done we may have seen more progress.

I want the same as you and every one else - CCFC back in Coventry. But perhaps we aren't getting anywhere is because the same approach keeps getting wheeled out. Are we not allowed to ask what part other parties have played in this? Every party is culpable - albeit in different proportions.

Here's a better idea. SISU drop the JR on the basis that a deal is put in place between ACL and them to give CCFC what it needs to have a sustainable future.

Here's a better idea,why don't sisu just fuck off and let someone who as the clubs best interests at heart take over?

I suppose your kind would miss them though eh.

 

[thelookout]

Who are you new poster? I demand to know who you are, where you come from and who you work for?

An ACL plant I think.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Its nothing to do with you who I am.

 

[Ian1779]

Here's a better idea,why don't sisu just fuck off and let someone who as the clubs best interests at heart take over?

I suppose your kind would miss them though eh.

No that would probably be good... who do you have in mind? Dhinsa? Haskell? Or maybe Hoffman and his magical shiny pound.

Plenty of people apparently would take us over... have you seen anyone put up the money yet?

 

[DaleM]

No that would probably be good... who do you have in mind? Dhinsa? Haskell? Or maybe Hoffman and his magical shiny pound.

Plenty of people apparently would take us over... have you seen anyone put up the money yet?

Don't worry the Euro's is 41 million tonight . When I pick the winnings up tomorrow I'll get us back to the Ricoh .

 

[olderskyblue]

and actually stop pissing about with clever clever third party non offers, and make some efforts too.

I've seen this "third party" offer derided before, and really NW it's nonsense. Many business transactions are offered and concluded with the involvement of a third party.

I have been personally involved in one, where myself and a co owner of a business couldn't stand to be in the same room as each other due to a complete breakdown in trust. I made an offer via a third party to buy me out, and it all got concluded very nicely via that third party.

It can work, and may even be the best solution in CCFC 's case.

 

[olderskyblue]

No doubt you've got them all written down to reel off in your next council meeting.

I had to check that it wasn't Grendel posting this......

 

[Gary.j]

Ian, perhaps you can give compelling reasons as to why sisu should be entrusted with the stadium!

All we've had so far is;

1, "sisu couldn't do any worse that ACL/CCC" which, using the football club as an example of their managerial expertise, quite clearly sisu could do much, much worse!

2, "let sisu take ownership of the Ricoh, then they'll leave." There is absolutely no evidence or guarantee that sisu will leave, they could hang around for years taking management fees, remortgaging, loading debt etc. In fact, the opposite could be argued, letting sisu know they will never be allowed to own the stadium is just as likely/unlikely to make them leave!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I've seen this "third party" offer derided before, and really NW it's nonsense. Many business transactions are offered and concluded with the involvement of a third party.

I have been personally involved in one, where myself and a co owner of a business couldn't stand to be in the same room as each other due to a complete breakdown in trust. I made an offer via a third party to buy me out, and it all got concluded very nicely via that third party.

It can work, and may even be the best solution in CCFC 's case.

It's not nonsense to play the game.

SISU come up with excuses? Why hand them the excuses when you don't have to!

Unless the desire is that they do come up with the excuses...

 

[Ian1779]

Ian, perhaps you can give compelling reasons as to why sisu should be entrusted with the stadium!

All we've had so far is;

1, "sisu couldn't do any worse that ACL/CCC" which, using the football club as an example of their managerial expertise, quite clearly sisu could do much, much worse!

2, "let sisu take ownership of the Ricoh, then they'll leave." There is absolutely no evidence or guarantee that sisu will leave, they could hang around for years taking management fees, remortgaging, loading debt etc. In fact, the opposite could be argued, letting sisu know they will never be allowed to own the stadium is just as likely/unlikely to make them leave!

You may well be right. They may do everything you say. But lets also say that if they did build their own stadium, they could then do all of those things that you've described and we would have the same outcome. So no matter what way we go about it we are always going to end up at the same scenario according to you.

I don't know if there are any compelling reasons - their track record doesn't exactly demonstrate solidity, and I understand why people are cynical.

They would be more likely to receive an offer for the club that they would accept if they had an asset like the Ricoh.

 

[lewys33]

You may well be right. They may do everything you say. But lets also say that if they did build their own stadium, they could then do all of those things that you've described and we would have the same outcome. So no matter what way we go about it we are always going to end up at the same scenario according to you.

I don't know if there are any compelling reasons - their track record doesn't exactly demonstrate solidity, and I understand why people are cynical.

They would be more likely to receive an offer for the club that they would accept if they had an asset like the Ricoh.

JS wants a return on her investment. £70million mark maybe? Even if they got given the Ricoh free do you think someone would pay £70 million for CCFC with the Ricoh? Lets not kid ourselves.

 

[Ian1779]

JS wants a return on her investment. £70million mark maybe? Even if they got given the Ricoh free do you think someone would pay £70 million for CCFC with the Ricoh? Lets not kid ourselves.

Not right now no - but if they somehow returned to the PL?

 

[skybluetony176]

You may well be right. They may do everything you say. But lets also say that if they did build their own stadium, they could then do all of those things that you've described and we would have the same outcome. So no matter what way we go about it we are always going to end up at the same scenario according to you.

I don't know if there are any compelling reasons - their track record doesn't exactly demonstrate solidity, and I understand why people are cynical.

They would be more likely to receive an offer for the club that they would accept if they had an asset like the Ricoh.

Hasn't TF said that the club wont own the Ricoh it will be another company within the Sisu set up?

 

[skybluetony176]

Not right now no - but if they somehow returned to the PL?

Wouldn't that require more investment? How much would she need for the club at that stage for the return on her investment? i'm guessing it will be more than £70M

 

[Ian1779]

Hasn't TF said that the club wont own the Ricoh it will be another company within the Sisu set up?

Yes that is true... It is the same type of setup that exist at a lot of clubs. Arsenal do not own their own stadium, it is owned by another company within the setup.

 

[Ian1779]

Wouldn't that require more investment? How much would she need for the club at that stage for the return on her investment? i'm guessing it will be more than £70M

Of course it would... but IF it did all happen PL clubs are not sold for £70m - you'd expect to get more surely?

 

[dongonzalos]

Not right now no - but if they somehow returned to the PL?

Unfortunately reading are the best comparison they sold for 50 million.

Plus what on top of the 75 million, would it cost SISU to get us to the prem?

By then they would have had people invest over 100 million.

 

[skybluetony176]

Yes that is true... It is the same type of setup that exist at a lot of clubs. Arsenal do not own their own stadium, it is owned by another company within the setup.

Who's set up? the clubs group of companies or a sisu's group of companies? TF needs to clarrify this, an easy task you would think.

 

[Ian1779]

Who's set up? the clubs group of companies or a sisu's group of companies? TF needs to clarrify this, an easy task you would think.

I agree - would need to be made crystal clear to fans how this setup would work.

 

[skybluetony176]

Of course it would... but IF it did all happen PL clubs are not sold for £70m - you'd expect to get more surely?

depends on the club i guess. Fulham was supposed to have been sold last year for over £150M, Al-Fayed bought them in 1997 for £6.25M and in 13years of ownership was supposed to have loaned Fulham £187M interest free. Using that as an example how is joy supposed to get a return on her investment and over what time scale is she hoping to do this.

 

[skybluetony176]

I agree - would need to be made crystal clear to fans how this setup would work.

and also to any potential buyers that Joy wants to sell to for a return on her investment.

 

[Ian1779]

Unfortunately reading are the best comparison they sold for 50 million.

Plus what on top of the 75 million, would it cost SISU to get us to the prem?

By then they would have had people invest over 100 million.

True - I would have thought some money would also come back from TV monies and other areas (sponsorship). If the club could secure 2/3 years in Prem then they could probably sell getting back most of their investment.

 

[Gary.j]

You may well be right. They may do everything you say. But lets also say that if they did build their own stadium, they could then do all of those things that you've described and we would have the same outcome. So no matter what way we go about it we are always going to end up at the same scenario according to you.

No, lets not speculate on scenarios regarding the "new" stadium until there is some actual evidence that it is going to be built, it's got nothing to do with reasons why sisu should be entrusted with the ricoh.

 

[skybluetony176]

True - I would have thought some money would also come back from TV monies and other areas (sponsorship). If the club could secure 2/3 years in Prem then they could probably sell getting back most of their investment.

so what you're saying is that Joy isn't getting her investment back under any circumstances? Hedge funds dont survive on "getting most of there investment back". sounds like Joy should cut her losses and run selling to the highest bidder (i imagine thats going to be a short list given the state they have reduced the club to) leaving them to sort out the debt to ARVO. Or perhaps Arvo should just call their debt in, put the club back into admin and recoupe as much as they can from the highest bidder and sisu not bother trying to buy the club back this time. At least this time what any bidder is getting for their money should be clearer.

 

[Ian1779]

so what you're saying is that Joy isn't getting her investment back under any circumstances? Hedge funds dont survive on "getting most of there investment back". sounds like Joy should cut her losses and run selling to the highest bidder (i imagine thats going to be a short list given the state they have reduced the club to) leaving them to sort out the debt to ARVO. Or perhaps Arvo should just call their debt in, put the club back into admin and recoupe as much as they can from the highest bidder and sisu not bother trying to buy the club back this time. At least this time what any bidder is getting for their money should be clearer.

Jesus Tony, I said most becasue last time I checked I couldn't travel forward in time to check the price of the sale. Then you go off on a rant based on a single word.

It's speculation... just like the rest of your statement.

 

[Gary.j]

I don't know if there are any compelling reasons - their track record doesn't exactly demonstrate solidity, and I understand why people are cynical.

Wouldnt you agree that we should have some compelling reasons before we entrust them with the ricoh?

 

[Ian1779]

Wouldnt you agree that we should have some compelling reasons before we entrust them with the ricoh?

But you's be happy to give it to a complete stranger.... like Haskell for instance?

 

[Gary.j]

They would be more likely to receive an offer for the club that they would accept if they had an asset like the Ricoh.

Covered this in my earlier question to you, all just guess work.

 

[Gary.j]

But you's be happy to give it to a complete stranger.... like Haskell for instance?

No, same questions apply to them.

 

[skybluetony176]

Jesus Tony, I said most becasue last time I checked I couldn't travel forward in time to check the price of the sale. Then you go off on a rant based on a single word.

It's speculation... just like the rest of your statement.

Jesus Ian, take a chill pill. i was stating opinion based on your opinion. No rant given or intended and no statement given or intended. i know the last couple of days have been hectic on here for you, take some deep breaths.

the simple fact is when you look at what evidence is available and the most recent history of premiership club sales (Fulham) its imposible to see whats in it for Joy and her mates. They are'nt an Al-Fayed or Khan who have money in their own right and owning a football club is largely an exersize in vanity, they're here for a return on their investment.