Labovitch calls for independent ACL valuation (12 Viewers)

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

The club didn't move out two years ago did they?

Must have been able to pay the rent before that then?

 

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[ccfcway]

Neither ACL nor sisu have moved on. Both actually want the club to play at the Ricoh.

FL seem to have accepted that they have. They should step in and broker a short term deal at the very least.

 

[Godiva]

FL seem to have accepted that they have. They should step in and broker a short term deal at the very least.

It has nothing to do with FL. It's a business dispute, not football related.
If you want an independent party to help broker a deal, then support the call for an arbitration.

 

[vincy]

Not that I would want that, but why is it ok to pay the rent to acl but not sisu?

Agreed, it's not.

"CCFC cannot be financially viable if they don't own the freehold of the stadium, or have to rent the stadium from a third party." That's what I heard anyway.

 

[skybluetony176]

What are you on about?

Do you fancy OSB?

Never met him so I couldn't tell one way or the other. You seem to be developing an unhealthy interest in me though.

 

[Hobo]

So they are doing it out of spite? They don't want the cLub home asap?

Not wanting to sell to a certain party based on previous experience of their negotiating tactics doesn't mean it is out of spite. To use a SISU phrase perhaps nobody would "sell at this point in the cycle."

They may want the club home, but not want to invite SISU to shit in the nest.

SISU were proud to introduce the hardball tactics, so you would at least assume, they are playing at home even if our team is always playing away?

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

That doesn't say they could afford it. The club was losing millions so it couldn't. You could also find a similar story that said the club chose not to pay Leon Bests transfer fee.

Why didn't they - couldn't be bothered? If was the clubs decision

Disturbingly you are one poster who never seemed to have an issue with the original rent even though it bankrupted the club not once but twice.

Before you come back with another inane sound bite focus not on sisu but prior owners. Why was it a problem for them?

The rent bankrupted the club twice? You dont half talk shit how you manage to sell a car amazes me. Mind you just having a fancy title doesn't mean you're actually good at your job does it?

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Vincy

Agreed, it's not. "CCFC cannot be financially viable if they don't own the freehold of the stadium, or have to rent the stadium from a third party." That's what I heard anyway.

 

[dongonzalos]

I doubt Deering was correct when she said the £5.5m offer was in recognition of Higgs charitable status. The £2m cash offer followed that, so realistically there is no way that the value is zero.

Maybe ML issuing their valuation would force the issue a bit more.

They value it at zero, the 2 million offer was a charitable donation. That's what SISU do not the other that's what we do thing.

Come on if you are going play this game please get your facts right

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Don't know what happened to my last post, but, Fisher has said that CCFC will rent off another arm of the SISU group, So where does the Club benefit anyway?

 

[Godiva]

Don't know what happened to my last post, but, Fisher has said that CCFC will rent off another arm of the SISU group, So where does the Club benefit anyway?

Can you provide a link, please?

 

[Kingokings204]

All a load of tosh really. More posturing and bs. We will know more and things will sort themselves out after the JR one way or another. Untill after the JR these points and threads are Irrelevant.

I would like to think we all want Cov back in Cov regardless of circumstances. That's all we want. Make or break this summer for me.

 

[Hobo]

Don't know what happened to my last post, but, Fisher has said that CCFC will rent off another arm of the SISU group, So where does the Club benefit anyway?

Nail on the head....they can criticise ACL all they like....but SISU want that position. They wanted to be mortgage lender and landlord, then sell, that was their game plan. Stuff CCFC!

 

[Godiva]

Nail on the head....they can criticise ACL all they like....but SISU want that position. They wanted to be mortgage lender and landlord, then sell, that was their game plan. Stuff CCFC!

Do you have a link to that, or are you making it up?

 

[Astute]

Do you have a link to that, or are you making it up?

Those of us that don't have select memory remember each part of it.

They wanted to take the mortgage over. This information is from SISU.

Our club wouldn't own the Ricoh but would rent it off SISU. Information from Timothy.

Won't sell at the bottom. Getting the Ricoh will either get our club a lot more value than present to sell up or keep the Ricoh and offload our club so it has to rent from SISU. The information about not selling at the bottom came from Joy.

 

[Hobo]

Do you have a link to that, or are you making it up?

They wanted to buy out the mortgage. Then got miffed when the council did it. Fisher has said they would rent off another arm of SISU as referred to by Sky Blue Kid (which is compatible with all their financing). If you can't see they are already building revenue streams for SISU and Arvo while CCFC are the pauper. This little project fits in with their long term pension funds....the football team are a side show. The main event is real estate.

If you can't see it and pick it out from the facts the only link I can give to you is Darwin.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Those of us that don't have select memory remember each part of it.

They wanted to take the mortgage over. This information is from SISU.

Our club wouldn't own the Ricoh but would rent it off SISU. Information from Timothy.

Won't sell at the bottom. Getting the Ricoh will either get our club a lot more value than present to sell up or keep the Ricoh and offload our club so it has to rent from SISU. The information about not selling at the bottom came from Joy.

He didn't say they'd rent it off SISU. There's a difference between making that leap and him not confirming the structure, and which company owns what.

 

[Astute]

He didn't say they'd rent it off SISU. There's a difference between making that leap and him not confirming the structure, and which company owns what.

Are you saying that our club wouldn't be charged rent when it is charged interest on loans needed through SISU's poor management of our club and also charges our club for mismanaging it?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Funny that when people say the same about CCFC you make out it is irrelevant,
So is it ?
At the end of the day ACL is worth nothing it is just a management company what rights would it give Sisu to own ACL but not own the Ricoh?

CCFC is also worth nothing and is probably negative equaty.

When you buy a house don't you get an independant valuation?

 

[James Smith]

ACL is a private company and the shareholders in it don't have to sell up if they don't want to. This is the same situation with our club, Sisu don't have to sell up and can do what they like. We may not like one or both of these positions but we can't really do anything about them either. Sisu and ACL (plus the shareholders*) have obviously fallen out and there is serious mistrust between them. Will that trust ever return - who knows. As the council and ACL aren't commenting before the Judicial Review, that can't come fast enough for me.

*the Trust etc.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Are you saying that our club wouldn't be charged rent when it is charged interest on loans needed through SISU's poor management of our club and also charges our club for mismanaging it?

I'm saying I don't know.

And neither does anybody else.

I am however saying that when it's been proven the club struggles to exist paying an extortionate rent, it would be a highly illogical act to depress the value of a company by taking the football team away... then committing acts that eradicate the football club entirely, and thus continue to depress the value.

If the assumption is correct that the football team has been taken away in order to make ACL have less worth, then it would make no sense to threaten the football team on gaining ACL.

 

[Ian1779]

He didn't say they'd rent it off SISU. There's a difference between making that leap and him not confirming the structure, and which company owns what.

Indeed - he did say the stadium would be owned by another arm of the group of companies. Very similar to Arsenal for example. At no point did he say CCFC would be renting from the other company.

 

[Otis]

Careful now Mark

Hey, that's no Mark to you!

 

[Astute]

I'm saying I don't know.

And neither does anybody else.

I am however saying that when it's been proven the club struggles to exist paying an extortionate rent, it would be a highly illogical act to depress the value of a company by taking the football team away... then committing acts that eradicate the football club entirely, and thus continue to depress the value.

If the assumption is correct that the football team has been taken away in order to make ACL have less worth, then it would make no sense to threaten the football team on gaining ACL.

So our club was struggling when they charged interest and management fees that were much higher than the rent whilst saying the rent was too high yet they might not charge rent as well?

Yes the interest they charge our club is more than the rent was.

Yes their management fees are more than the rent was.

But of course it was all about the rent. Just like it was all about the pie money. Just like it is now all about unencumbered freehold. Just like the rent free and 150k a season rent offers were not made.

Yes we should all trust SISU not to charge our club rent.

 

[Godiva]

They wanted to buy out the mortgage. Then got miffed when the council did it. Fisher has said they would rent off another arm of SISU as referred to by Sky Blue Kid (which is compatible with all their financing). If you can't see they are already building revenue streams for SISU and Arvo while CCFC are the pauper. This little project fits in with their long term pension funds....the football team are a side show. The main event is real estate.

If you can't see it and pick it out from the facts the only link I can give to you is Darwin.

So another poster have said it. Must be true then.

Nah, I can't see the logic if sisu want to maximize their outcome. They will need to keep the club and stadium within a sellable package.

 

[Astute]

Indeed - he did say the stadium would be owned by another arm of the group of companies. Very similar to Arsenal for example. At no point did he say CCFC would be renting from the other company.

Our loans come from other 'arms' of SISU, yet they charge our club more than the rent in interest.

I suppose you will keep this up until someone shows you are wrong and then you will keep away from the thread as usual. Just like earlier when you tried to defend SISU saying everyone was wrong about their past and what they are up to until you saw the proof.

 

[Godiva]

So our club was struggling when they charged interest and management fees that were much higher than the rent whilst saying the rent was too high yet they might not charge rent as well?

Yes the interest they charge our club is more than the rent was.

Yes their management fees are more than the rent was.

But of course it was all about the rent. Just like it was all about the pie money. Just like it is now all about unencumbered freehold. Just like the rent free and 150k a season rent offers were not made.

Yes we should all trust SISU not to charge our club rent.

Here we go again ... management fees!

 

[Astute]

So another poster have said it. Must be true then.

Nah, I can't see the logic if sisu want to maximize their outcome. They will need to keep the club and stadium within a sellable package.

So why do they charge our club interest and management fees that are far more than the rent you constantly moan about then? Why don't you ever moan about what they charge our club for nothing of any use? At least our club made money out of being at the Ricoh compared to the pittance we get in Northampton.

 

[RegTheDonk]

You seem to be dodging the question.

Your question with a question is typically an attempt at sidetracking.

I'm certainly not proud of a council that has contempt for its club and their supporters

If the club is there or not hasnt changed the valuation. Why are you contradicting the statements issued on this?

Pot and kettle methinks

 

[Astute]

Here we go again ... management fees!

Yes......just a number.......should be ignored.........just the same as rent that would be charged our club........ignore the bad news and try and blame CCC, Higgs or anyone else for the financial mess our club is in other than SISU.

 

[James Smith]

Indeed - he did say the stadium would be owned by another arm of the group of companies. Very similar to Arsenal for example. At no point did he say CCFC would be renting from the other company.

It was described as a "Prop co" I think.

 

[skybluetony176]

Indeed - he did say the stadium would be owned by another arm of the group of companies. Very similar to Arsenal for example. At no point did he say CCFC would be renting from the other company.

Did he ever say that they wouldn't?

 

[Godiva]

So why do they charge our club interest and management fees that are far more than the rent you constantly moan about then? Why don't you ever moan about what they charge our club for nothing of any use? At least our club made money out of being at the Ricoh compared to the pittance we get in Northampton.

They do NOT charge us management fees - they NEVER have! It's been said on here a gazillion times - even by OSB. So please stop mention that, it only shows you base some of your arguments on false premises.

They charge interest, yes, but so would a bank - and ARVO is our bank. And BTW, it doesn't seem the interests have been paid, only accrued.
In the end it really doesn't matter to the club if the money coming in from ARVO is by loan or by equity. When the club is sold it will be for a price determined by the future prospects. If that price doesn't cover all the loans, ARVO will have to write off the deficit. If they refuse the club will be unsellable.
It's the same with ACL - the price will be the same and Higgs/CCC will either get less for their shares or CCC will have to write off some of the loan.

 

[Astute]

Did he ever say that they wouldn't?

Do you think that he would have told us that they wouldn't charge our club rent if that was the case?

 

[Hobo]

So another poster have said it. Must be true then.

Nah, I can't see the logic if sisu want to maximize their outcome. They will need to keep the club and stadium within a sellable package.

Fisher said it actually.

Godiva the situation is CCFC are not at the Ricoh. Therefore ACL have nothing to do with us. People can blame Andy Thorne, Joe Elliott, Gordan Strachan, Brian Richardson or Will Starley...whoever they like.

Only Otium/SISU have their hand on the rudder so it is down to them. They do not have a track record of being orthodox or fore front in public relations. They fight dirty and are proud of it.

That is the situation we are in whether you like it or I don't like it, doesn't matter; We are in SISU's lap. So as they have said, We have no intention of selling, that is their right, but if you don't think they are, or, can still make money you are naive.

ACL/HIGGS are in the same position they don't have to sell.

But you overlook SISU's history, buy, sell, leave revenue streams or claim management fees......Say it is only my opinion if you want...but at the end of the day neither you or I will be winners in this. As for an argument with you, life is too short to be honest.