Council and Sky Blues in court tomorrow (20 Viewers)

[dongonzalos]

I think the point is that the case is about the procedures undertaken by CCC regarding the loan to ACL.

So not really to do with CCFC as such. Any contact was between SISU and CCC so SISU would already have title to their side of the documents.

The costs. These must be mounting up. 8 barristers and lawyers for the Higgs case 5 for this today, time and cost of putting a 110 page statement together with 2500 supporting documents, a detailed experts report on the ACL loan deal........ and we haven't got to the main event yet.

I know things are never clear cut in putting things to a court but their counter claim dismissed as no basis in law, a lengthy & costly statement dismissed, an experts report stated as not relevant ............. does make you wonder as to what they are doing and the advice they are getting

It wasn't really a case of winners or losers as such today ....... it was a process to go through that is quite normal usually.....but it does come across as a miscalculation by SISU though

ps Simon could have put SISU QC on twitter stupot would have been more accurate

I am just concerned if things do not go their way they will use this for their grounds for an appeal

 

---

[shmmeee]

Still no photos from today?

Cmon Simon, surely a sneaky phone camera shot on the way out at least!

I'm starting to believe she really is a vampire.

 

[mds]

Of course, the real question is: what do we as fans do if they do sell? Do we accept anyone again? Do we ask some serious questions of them (if that's still possible with Sisu's systematic destruction of any fan representation)?

You can ask all the questions you want, they will give you all the right answers, everything they think you want to hear then do exactly as they please regardless of what they told you they would do, or of your opinion on what they are doing.
Owners are owners, this day and age the fan opinion is far from their thoughts, money is the goal and whatever it takes regardless of you and me is what it takes to make it!

 

[Grendel]

I am just concerned if things do not go their way they will use this for their grounds for an appeal

Appeals on Judicial Reviews are very difficult to get.

 

[Hobo]

What does her doing this at the last minute suggest?

Probably muddy the waters by trying to introduce a load of other stuff. Hence the Judge dismissing it as it will not further evidence for the JR. Saying it very late in the day...means you are trying to delay things.

 

[dongonzalos]

Appeals on Judicial Reviews are very difficult to get.

I know and I mean this genuinely which ever way it goes I hope there isn't one.

However I do think if the council lose I don't believe the judge will put in a remedy. So I am unsure what SISU will achieve.

 

[Kingokings204]

Appeals on Judicial Reviews are very difficult to get.

That's good news. I hate appeals as it is. The decision is made on the evidence given and that should be final good or bad. You would like to think the correct decision was given.

 

[skybluetony176]

Appeals on Judicial Reviews are very difficult to get.

Has to be with new evidence I believe. You can't appeal on the original evidence.

 

[dongonzalos]

Probably muddy the waters by trying to introduce a load of other stuff. Hence the Judge dismissing it as it will not further evidence for the JR. Saying it very late in the day...means you are trying to delay things.

It could be that, it could be pre planned. Either to delay I set up an appeal,

Or

it could be blind panic in reaction to a genuine concern that you believe you are not going to win and you are grasping at straws.

Who knows it was a lot of effort though and so late in the day

 

[dongonzalos]

Has to be with new evidence I believe. You can't appeal on the original evidence.

But can you appeal that you were not allowed to introduce the new evidence

 

[Grendel]

I know and I mean this genuinely which ever way it goes I hope there isn't one.

However I do think if the council lose I don't believe the judge will put in a remedy. So I am unsure what SISU will achieve.

Well its the land of milk and honey isn't it? You, bigfatron, astute, Schmee, sky blue John, Spoinkop, king of very little can all finger point and celebrate your victory.

You are right and I am wrong. The club will be purchased by someone else who is really delighted to deal with CCC and we will be back at the Ricoh.

You told me so.

 

[skybluetony176]

But can you appeal that you were not allowed to introduce the new evidence

If you mean in context to the "evidence" they tried to acquire today I would say no. If there is no new evidence available then there are no grounds for appeal. What I don't know is if sisu can appeal on today's ruling?

 

[sw88]

What does her doing this at the last minute suggest?

It was rushed......

 

[Hobo]

If you mean in context to the "evidence" they tried to acquire today I would say no. If there is no new evidence available then there are no grounds for appeal. What I don't know is if sisu can appeal on today's ruling?

No.

 

[John_Silletts_Nose]

I know and I mean this genuinely which ever way it goes I hope there isn't one.

However I do think if the council lose I don't believe the judge will put in a remedy. So I am unsure what SISU will achieve.

I believe the aim for SISU/ARVO and particularly CCFC H is that if they win then they are able to sue the council and council individuals for their losses related to an illegal funding which was put in place by CCC.
Losing access to personal minutes from meetings will make it harder to sue these individuals as it will be more difficult to prove liability.

The amounts which will be claimed in these cases will be large and the council will be forced to settle, settlement will probably be in the form of the Ricoh.
I believe this explains why CCFC H are part of the case against CCC in the judicial review and why they have not yet been liquidated.

 

[No future with SISU]

Well its the land of milk and honey isn't it? You, bigfatron, astute, Schmee, sky blue John, Spoinkop, king of very little can all finger point and celebrate your victory.

You are right and I am wrong. The club will be purchased by someone else who is really delighted to deal with CCC and we will be back at the Ricoh.

You told me so.

You must be GUTTED as there was no papers/smokeing gun. No minutes taken at the meeting, SISU have been taken in by all this bull shit about secret papers on here, they belived those papers existed. Well done grendel.

 

[shmmeee]

Well its the land of milk and honey isn't it? You, bigfatron, astute, Schmee, sky blue John, Spoinkop, king of very little can all finger point and celebrate your victory.

You are right and I am wrong. The club will be purchased by someone else who is really delighted to deal with CCC and we will be back at the Ricoh.

You told me so.

Well, all that is true

Just want my club back mate. If it's done by Sisu fleecing the council out of the Ricoh I won't be happy as a citizen, but I'll be glad it's all over and we can begin to heal the club.

 

[John_Silletts_Nose]

For those of you who have not seen Joy Florence-Seppala I believe the ruling regarding her evidence means that she is more likely to appear at the judicial review so that she can provide her evidence in the case as a matter of court record.

 

[No future with SISU]

She told Mutton she would liquidate the club.

 

[dongonzalos]

Well its the land of milk and honey isn't it? You, bigfatron, astute, Schmee, sky blue John, Spoinkop, king of very little can all finger point and celebrate your victory.

You are right and I am wrong. The club will be purchased by someone else who is really delighted to deal with CCC and we will be back at the Ricoh.

You told me so.

Where have I done that exactly? You won't be able to find it because I haven't

This is a mere preliminary hearing I have celebrated nothing? I am merely intrigued by the actions of JS

 

[dongonzalos]

I believe the aim for SISU/ARVO and particularly CCFC H is that if they win then they are able to sue the council and council individuals for their losses related to an illegal funding which was put in place by CCC.
Losing access to personal minutes from meetings will make it harder to sue these individuals as it will be more difficult to prove liability.

The amounts which will be claimed in these cases will be large and the council will be forced to settle, settlement will probably be in the form of the Ricoh.
I believe this explains why CCFC H are part of the case against CCC in the judicial review and why they have not yet been liquidated.

Interesting point . Mr Fisher did say they would look to sue individuals personally afterwards (I think )

 

[dongonzalos]

It was rushed......

And why rush something so important

 

[martcov]

Well its the land of milk and honey isn't it? You, bigfatron, astute, Schmee, sky blue John, Spoinkop, king of very little can all finger point and celebrate your victory.

You are right and I am wrong. The club will be purchased by someone else who is really delighted to deal with CCC and we will be back at the Ricoh.

You told me so.

I will celebrate when the JR is over. Hopefully SISU lose. The main reason though is that it has become a distraction. The time, money and effort should have been spent on a new "Road Map". The last one failed largely because of lack of trust between the parties. Pursuing a JR that looks ever more likely to end in a draw ( no smoking guns or whistleblowers yet ), is getting no-one anywhere. Talk of Byng, New Stadium, Haskell is just bullshit. Both sides should put personal feelings aside and look for commercial advantage - for both parties. The JR will bring nothing.

 

[Hobo]

I wish people would realise today was not a separate court case. It was a directional hearing in preparation for the JR. The judge making sure people are on track, sifting the wheat from the chaff.

It really is no big shakes. Making sure we are ready to go on the set date. No excuses.

 

[shmmeee]

I think people know it's part of the JR process, it's just new news isn't it?

On another note: Just looking through Simon's tweets from today, can anyone shed any more light on this:

Coun has copy of August ACL board minutes from 2012 and is willing to provide to CCFC. Relevant as this is meeting Mr Harris of ACL / Higgs

...

Said he sought assurances Sisu would be notified of council plan to buy ACL debt.

Who is the "he" in this case? Is this relating to the alleged not telling Sisu about the council plan? Has anything new come out of that?

 

[The Prefect]

I believe the aim for SISU/ARVO and particularly CCFC H is that if they win then they are able to sue the council and council individuals for their losses related to an illegal funding which was put in place by CCC.
Losing access to personal minutes from meetings will make it harder to sue these individuals as it will be more difficult to prove liability.

The amounts which will be claimed in these cases will be large and the council will be forced to settle, settlement will probably be in the form of the Ricoh.
I believe this explains why CCFC H are part of the case against CCC in the judicial review and why they have not yet been liquidated.

Able to sue the council for what losses?

I understood that you can sue if you have suffered loss. As a tenant of ACL I struggle to see where SISU have suffered any losses. They put the club into administration and walked away from the Ricoh so where is the loss? There is an argument that the loss was ACL's - the rent.

SISU admitted during the Higgs case that they didn't have an agreement with the bank regarding the mortgage so they (as tenants) don't seem to have lost anything. How does the club's landlord's funding affect the club?

As an opening for litigation against individuals then there might be some mileage in creating nuisance through your lawyers! I don't see much merit to any claim.

 

[skybluefred]

And how does the stance of "don't let sisu get the Ricoh for cheap" help the club?

Give one valid reason why a hedge fund that turned "OUR CLUB" from a decent Championship side into a near penniless basket case, one that
struggles to survive in the !st Division, Be given the RICOH on the cheap.

 

[SimonGilbert]

Thanks for following today guys. It's been a long day! Updated story will be up online first thing which will hopefully answer some of your questions.

Probably won't be able to reply to any more questions until tomorrow now I'm afraid. But will try to respond in the morning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Moff]

Thanks for following today guys. It's been a long day! Updated story will be up online first thing which will hopefully answer some of your questions.

Probably won't be able to reply to any more questions until tomorrow now I'm afraid. But will try to respond in the morning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Simon sorry if these questions have been asked but I would appreciate any answers,

1) You have stated Seppala was at Court. How did you know it was her?
2) Description please.
3) Did you get any sneaky pictures, if so please feel to post here and on all available social media.

Cheers!
(For no other reason than nosiness really)

 

[Godiva]

I think people know it's part of the JR process, it's just new news isn't it?

On another note: Just looking through Simon's tweets from today, can anyone shed any more light on this:



Who is the "he" in this case? Is this relating to the alleged not telling Sisu about the council plan? Has anything new come out of that?

Mr Harris

 

[shmmeee]

Mr Harris

Got ya, sorry I was getting Harris and West mixed up and thought he was asking himself for assurances. Makes sense now. Cheers.

So, what's being said here? What's in the minutes, just a reiteration of Harris' claim at the Higgs case that he sought assurances Sisu would be told?

 

[John_Silletts_Nose]

Able to sue the council for what losses?

I understood that you can sue if you have suffered loss. As a tenant of ACL I struggle to see where SISU have suffered any losses. They put the club into administration and walked away from the Ricoh so where is the loss? There is an argument that the loss was ACL's - the rent.

SISU admitted during the Higgs case that they didn't have an agreement with the bank regarding the mortgage so they (as tenants) don't seem to have lost anything. How does the club's landlord's funding affect the club?

As an opening for litigation against individuals then there might be some mileage in creating nuisance through your lawyers! I don't see much merit to any claim.

If the judicial review is in the club's favour then how they will link the funding of ACL by CCC to losses at the club or SISU is a matter for SISU employed lawyers to prove.

Note, that the line by Labovitch and Fisher, more recently, appears to be "we were kicked out" / "forced to leave" rather than "we decided to leave", indicating a belief that ACL/CCC caused the move to another ground and subsequent losses.

There are many details of the events of which we are unaware that may be revealed in the judicial review or later, it is not possible to guess the outcome without all of the facts and a thorough understanding of the law.

 

[Flying Fokker]

But Labovich and Fisher live in a different bubble.

 

[Astute]

If the judicial review is in the club's favour then how they will link the funding of ACL by CCC to losses at the club or SISU is a matter for SISU employed lawyers to prove.

Note, that the line by Labovitch and Fisher, more recently, appears to be "we were kicked out" / "forced to leave" rather than "we decided to leave", indicating a belief that ACL/CCC caused the move to another ground and subsequent losses.

There are many details of the events of which we are unaware that may be revealed in the judicial review or later, it is not possible to guess the outcome without all of the facts and a thorough understanding of the law.

SISU never paid the rent. Legally they could have got thrown out. Maybe that is what they were hoping for. But they were not thrown out. They decided to move out. They used the excuse that all trust was gone. I would say that CCC/Higgs/ACL would agree.

Or would they say they had to move out as the rent was too high? It was a legally binding contract that they broke. Can't see any problems there either.

 

[Grendel]

Give one valid reason why a hedge fund that turned "OUR CLUB" from a decent Championship side into a near penniless basket case, one that
struggles to survive in the !st Division, Be given the RICOH on the cheap.

By decent you mean a club that had one top 10 finish and couldn't afford to even pay the transfer fees for players that were playing?

That's decent is it?