Judicial Review thread (4 Viewers)

[Jack Griffin]

They have probably already asked for them and been denied hence it ending up in court.

They did, and if I remember rightly the response was something about them 'fishing'..

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/sisu-launch-new-high-court-6239597
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/judge-delivers-blow-sky-blues-6263237

Is this some sort of appeal?

 

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[duffer]

If the council lost the JR and have were shown to of misused taxpayers money, would the council leaders have to resign and would new leaders have a different attitude towards bringing the club back to playing in Coventry

I don't think it goes quite this far. Councils lose JRs from time to time, I can't remember ever hearing of councillors resigning as a result.

If the council lose the JR, I think the impact is that ACL will probably have to find alternative funding. It doesn't hand everything over to SISU, and at the moment there's not even any talk of damages.

Funnily enough, I had a chat with a councillor a few days ago. He couldn't say much about the JR, they've been told not to comment because of the ongoing court case and the risk of being dragged into it. Given SISU's apparent love of the courts, I think that's probably fair enough, imho.

 

[sky blue john]

running rings around your beloved council in admin process?

what about beating higgs claim to boot?

oh no you will just ignore that till council finally win one and then post about it till the end of time.

Lol !!!
You must be so proud our club is playing in Northampton !!

 

[covcity4life]

Lol !!!
You must be so proud our club is playing in Northampton !!

why would i be?

why would you even say such a stupid thing? back it up.

 

[sky blue john]

why would i be?

why would you even say such a stupid thing? back it up.

Lmfao !!!
No need you back Sisu at every turn its obvious you gloat over their every move !!!

 

[Astute]

Sounds like they don't have the big bit of info that they need to win the case so are looking for something else. Bit late in the day for fishing for something new. Will they be asking for the JR to be adjourned?

 

[MichaelCCFC]

4life is right that sisu are good in court. they absolutely smashed acl in the high court in London last year. Some people seem to be saying that sisu have pursued the JR because they are confident of winning, others say it's part of a tactic of stringing things out to distress acl. I may be completely wrong but there doesn't seem much chance of a change in ccc's view even if some personalities changed as a result of the JR or for other reasons. Cons and Lab are united. Lucas unseated Mutton as Leader and it's safe to assume that the Labour Group (of Councillors) has its disagreements but it doesn't seem ricoh/sisu is one of them. There seems to be a recurring theme from some people that they have seen a document/s which prove sisu will win and who knows what the JR might reveal. But apart from an almighty spin battle in which the winner claims this proves they are 100% right on everything, and yet more legal action, I've not met anyone who thinks the outcome will help move CCFC in a positive direction even if it is some kind of result/benefit for local politics/hedge find profits. but it would be nice of this proves wrong!

 

[skybluetony176]

running rings around your beloved council in admin process?

what about beating higgs claim to boot?

oh no you will just ignore that till council finally win one and then post about it till the end of time.

Again you're talking about sisu beating the other parties in court and now about running rings around the council during the admin process.

I'll ask you again. How has any of this benefited our club?

 

[covcity4life]

Again you're talking about sisu beating the other parties in court and now about running rings around the council during the admin process.

I'll ask you again. How has any of this benefited our club?

it hasnt. where did i say it did though???????

john is making out like they are muppets and council are so smart, i am pointing out that is not the case.

sisu have messed ccfc around, me thinking they know what they are doing in courtroom does not mean i like them.

 

[skybluetony176]

it hasnt. where did i say it did though???????

john is making out like they are muppets and council are so smart, i am pointing out that is not the case.

sisu have messed ccfc around, me thinking they know what they are doing in courtroom does not mean i like them.

As you quite rightly say there has been no benefit to the club so why are you relishing in this apparent "battering" and "running of rings".

You seem to have forgotten why you support the team. Assuming you do of course and are not just here for a bit of council bashing.

 

[covcity4life]

As you quite rightly say there has been no benefit to the club so why are you relishing in this apparent "battering" and "running of rings".

You seem to have forgotten why you support the team. Assuming you do of course and are not just here for a bit of council bashing.

there is no relishing. you have made that up to support your argument.

if there is any relishing of courtroom victories it is from jon and his cronies.

of course you know that already.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Why would anyone want to bash the council? Democracy is the least worst idea we have to govern ourselves.

Public discontent is usually applied to the political parties in a council.

It is interesting that both main parties agreed that the arena would help the regeneration in the north part of the city, which is why the stadium was built with our money in the first place.

 

[olderskyblue]

There seems to be a recurring theme from some people that they have seen a document/s which prove sisu will win

Grendel, for fooks sake, get this document to SISU smartish...... Could have saved them going to court tomorrow. Fancy you, of all people, not helping them out.

 

[bigfatronssba]

running rings around your beloved council in admin process?

what about beating higgs claim to boot?

oh no you will just ignore that till council finally win one and then post about it till the end of time.

What on earth are you talking about?

Acl have already beat sisu in court.

Higgs didn't lose to sisu in court, and the case cost sisu a lot more to defend than it did higgs.

Sisu have never beat anyone in court whilst posing as our clubs owner.

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

What on earth are you talking about?

Acl have already beat sisu in court.

Higgs didn't lose to sisu in court, and the case cost sisu a lot more to defend than it did higgs.

Sisu have never beat anyone in court whilst posing as our clubs owner.

Exactly !!!

SISU have not won any court cases or achieved anything worth writing about since they been owners of CCFC.

1. They lost against CCC during the rent row case and were ordered to pay costs.

2. They came out second best to CCC regarding the unlawful use of state aid. This was due to there argument not being strong enough to justify a JR.

3. Ok they won there appeal for a JR regarding The unlawful use of state aid. This would have happened anyway as SISU are legally entitled to be given a chance to put across there grievance and most likely gave a good enough argument second time round to justify this. You may have noticed the council did little to defend the appeal as this is the normal process courts go through.

4. Higgs vs SISU may have been a victorious in SISU's eye but came at a cost to them financially and for the fact that the judge made a closing statement that Higgs and SISU did not have a passion and commitment to close deal hence the reason why he had told SISU barristers (Most likely in the Judges Chamber out of earshot) that if they wanted a order for cost against Higgs, this will not happen as he looks at it as a nil-nil draw. That's probably the main reason why SISU did not request cost against Higgs. On top of the non payment of rent, the judgement made in the hearing that there was no commitment from Higgs or ACL to close the deal could be now used in the JR as argument and evidence how they were right to take action to safe guard a state asset using state aid, whilst the mortgage was crippling them.


I don't see SISU having won anything yet that is news worthy. Maybe they will coming this June.

 

[ccfcway]

so, what does everyone think ?

a) SISU win
b) CCC win / no case to answer

 

[Deleted member 5849]

so, what does everyone think ?

a) SISU win
b) CCC win / no case to answer

Neither.

Suspect the ultimate result will be a 'win' one way or another, but sufficient mud slung and cause for concern revealed to provide fuel for arguments stretching on and on well into the future

 

[Pubboy]

Honestly, I think the court will throw out the case. SISU will frustrate the hell out of the judge, trying to introduce irrelevant information. Costs awarded against SISU. SISU don't pay, and file an irrelevant appeal based on the judges decision not to allow all SISUs "evidence".

 

[ccfcway]

Honestly, I think the court will throw out the case. SISU will frustrate the hell out of the judge, trying to introduce irrelevant information. Costs awarded against SISU. SISU don't pay, and file an irrelevant appeal based on the judges decision not to allow all SISUs "evidence".

wonder where that would leave us ?

 

[blueflint]

Again you're talking about sisu beating the other parties in court and now about running rings around the council during the admin process.

I'll ask you again. How has any of this benefited our club?

how and when did they run rings round the council in admin as council wasn't involved to any great extent and ACL have beaten them as well remember a court case regarding non payment of rent that ACL won

 

[Astute]

I am waiting to see if they pay the 590k before the end of the month.

 

[Spionkop]

I'm also waiting to see if they pay the rent they owe for the Ricoh.

 

[ccfcway]

I am waiting to see if they pay the 590k before the end of the month.

you wont have to wait much longer !

 

[skyblueexile]

sitting here in a very wet north yorkshire I have followed most of this pub like legal talk through the biased views - the one thing that convinces me is of the apparant legal abilities surrounding the two sides

SISU - professional solicitors proactive successful in court because they are the best whether we like it or not SISU are a successful company and employ the top legal

CCC legal historically like comfort of the easier life not having to be proactive rather than succeed on own ability hide in the security of a regular income without fighting for it

well thats my impression historically of council departments

to me there can only be one winner SISU - they are not stupid enough to just waste more money. their legal know the law and loop holes

they didn't lose the other cases just didn't prove.

my monies on SISU so come on CCC admit guilt as charged and negotiate

there is no way I am a SISU lover just looking at the facts - CCC did give the money and it is contrary to what is allowed stop wasting council money

CCC only hope is the smokescreen of non disclosure

YES THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION FROM YEARS OF OBSERVATION OF ISSUES BETWEEN LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND THE PUBLIC IN GENERAL

my concern id CCFC and the only way we can move forward in the short term is a SISU win in court

 

[Astute]

sitting here in a very wet north yorkshire I have followed most of this pub like legal talk through the biased views - the one thing that convinces me is of the apparant legal abilities surrounding the two sides

SISU - professional solicitors proactive successful in court because they are the best whether we like it or not SISU are a successful company and employ the top legal

CCC legal historically like comfort of the easier life not having to be proactive rather than succeed on own ability hide in the security of a regular income without fighting for it

well thats my impression historically of council departments

to me there can only be one winner SISU - they are not stupid enough to just waste more money. their legal know the law and loop holes

they didn't lose the other cases just didn't prove.

my monies on SISU so come on CCC admit guilt as charged and negotiate

there is no way I am a SISU lover just looking at the facts - CCC did give the money and it is contrary to what is allowed stop wasting council money

CCC only hope is the smokescreen of non disclosure

YES THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION FROM YEARS OF OBSERVATION OF ISSUES BETWEEN LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND THE PUBLIC IN GENERAL

my concern id CCFC and the only way we can move forward in the short term is a SISU win in court

Seems to be a fair bit that you are unsure of.

SISU good in court? The most recent case other than anything to do with our club was a disaster for Joy. The judge seemed to question her integrity. What case have they won with anything to do with our club? How much did the case a couple of weeks ago waste? Must be close to a 6 figure sum with all the work that went into it and the barristers that turned up. How much did they waste in the case against Higgs? Paying them the 29k would have been much cheaper and would have been much better for goodwill. They could do with the Higgs share, but now Higgs won't trust them enough to deal with them at all.

Looking at facts? You say council money. ACL didn't get council money. No council money was given. The only council money going out is because of litigation from SISU. Yes this is a waste. But SISU are wasting even more to cause this.

You say SISU know the law and legal loopholes. Why don't they ever leave court with a win then?

So you would prefer a short term gain for our club over a long term advantage for our club?

CCC can only win because of non disclosure? Oh dear. So they are going to stand up in court and just say 'no comment'? If it goes against SISU like expected it will because SISU are wrong and not CCC.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

sitting here in a very wet north yorkshire I have followed most of this pub like legal talk through the biased views - the one thing that convinces me is of the apparant legal abilities surrounding the two sides

SISU - professional solicitors proactive successful in court because they are the best whether we like it or not SISU are a successful company and employ the top legal

CCC legal historically like comfort of the easier life not having to be proactive rather than succeed on own ability hide in the security of a regular income without fighting for it

well thats my impression historically of council departments

to me there can only be one winner SISU - they are not stupid enough to just waste more money. their legal know the law and loop holes

they didn't lose the other cases just didn't prove.

my monies on SISU so come on CCC admit guilt as charged and negotiate

there is no way I am a SISU lover just looking at the facts - CCC did give the money and it is contrary to what is allowed stop wasting council money

CCC only hope is the smokescreen of non disclosure

YES THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION FROM YEARS OF OBSERVATION OF ISSUES BETWEEN LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND THE PUBLIC IN GENERAL

my concern id CCFC and the only way we can move forward in the short term is a SISU win in court

Sounds like you've seen all the evidence and formed an opinion on your expert legal knowledge, especially around judicial reviews. Excellent. Please can you explain the bits that are 'contrary to what is allowed'. Thanks.

 

[ccfcway]

they didn't lose the other cases just didn't prove.

which is exactly what they will have to do to win this one as well !.

Again, they might not "Lose", but failing to prove means the case would be thrown out.

I keep thinking "they must have something" to go this far...

who knows

12 days to go !!

 

[skyblueexile]

If there was no 'contrary to rules' there wouldn't be a court case - no ive not seen the evidence am not a legal professional as i stated its my opinion based on my experiences of dealings with councils and courts

 

[skyblueexile]

CCFCWAY I agree 100%

 

[shmmeee]

If there was no 'contrary to rules' there wouldn't be a court case - no ive not seen the evidence am not a legal professional as i stated its my opinion based on my experiences of dealings with councils and courts

Ah, no smoke without fire.

I think you overestimate Sisu's legal prowess.

 

[Jack Griffin]

The only thing that matters is the judgement, what a poster on here thinks is irrelevant.

 

[ccfcway]

The only thing that matters is the judgement, what a poster on here thinks is irrelevant.

unless of course the judge is a poster on here ?

 

[skybluetony176]

unless of course the judge is a poster on here ?

its RFC.




i called it 1st

 

[Nick]

unless of course the judge is a poster on here ?

He is, it is Brian.

 

[duffer]

He is, it is Brian.

Now that I would pay to see.