Sky Blue Dal
Well-Known Member
No SISU did a good job of that by spending there energy in Court hearings instead of a round table.
Unbelievable after all that's happened you still can't see this.
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Wasps in talks to takeover Ricoh (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter SimonGilbert
- Start date
No SISU did a good job of that by spending there energy in Court hearings instead of a round table.
Unbelievable after all that's happened you still can't see this.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
To be honest it seems the only way forward is to have our own stadium. It seems the days at the Ricoh are numbered, whether by Fisher saying that or the actions of ACL.
And similarly with ACL. If they want to "rebuild" trust then why hawk the stadium to a franchise team? After all, they condemned SISUs actions of moving the club out of the City along with everyone else while trying to sue Northampton Town in the process. Seems like it's OK as long as it's them getting the money. I wonder if WWFC will try and sue ACL?
And similarly with ACL. If they want to "rebuild" trust then why hawk the stadium to a franchise team? After all, they condemned SISUs actions of moving the club out of the City along with everyone else while trying to sue Northampton Town in the process. Seems like it's OK as long as it's them getting the money. I wonder if WWFC will try and sue ACL?
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Astute
Well-Known Member
Is that because they didn't hear an offer that wasn't made? :facepalm:
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I put my interests and those of my family, all of which have long running links with the Club, first. What I want is to see the team I support, CCFC, playing at the Ricoh long term. Don't particularly care how it is done because I will have no involvement in it but I will seek to understand from all sides that how, when and if should it be agreed. As it stands CCFC can play at the Ricoh and can if the owners so wish negotiate a long term contract to do that and have access to incomes, they choose not to. Can I really affect any of that no, because SISU/ACL/CCFC/CCC will do the deal that suits them. That's a deal that in reality will have next to no input from fans.
If that means that CCFC end up with a long low rent deal at the Ricoh but do not own the stadium or ACL well guess what I will still go buy my ticket, still go watch them win lose or draw. If that means they share a ground with someone else I will still go. Not because I support SISU, CCC, ACL, FL or even the fans but because even if they were playing on a parks pitch in Coventry then CCFC would still be my team. Like it or not CCFC severed its links to the Ricoh, it has done a two year deal to return but says it will build its own stadium. It is all well and good climbing on your horse tilting at windmills but I think people have to deal with realities that have been staring them in the face for months.
Should I meet any of the characters from SISU/CCC/ACL I would seek to persuade them that the Wasp idea is not a good one but the reality is those people will not have taken a knee jerk emotional decision on this. Do people really think that this has only just happened? I would be very surprised if it has. The business cases will have been put together, analysed and flexed over weeks. But as yet it hasn't actually happened so may not. Fact is the club in word and action have told ACL they are not staying at the Ricoh. It takes time to find replacements or alternatives, something some said could not be done, businesses require income they can not and do not sit around waiting on the off chance it might turn up or the off chance a current client might change their mind
Hold your demonstrations, contact the councillors if you choose to. The success of CCFC has never actually required the ownership of the freehold or ACL but will leave you to figure out why that might be. That means I am not going to get hung up on who owns ACL. Who owns CCFC now that's something different.
I do not want a franchise team rocking up here and taking control but where has it been said that my team will not be playing at the Ricoh because they do come here. What I sought to do is to explain what why and how. Interesting what I get in return is to be questioned on my loyalty to the team I have followed and supported from a young boy.
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Nick
Administrator
So to be clear, you want the best deal for ACL?*
*This is a joke, OSB will take it as a joke so should everybody else.
Ps. I agree, without knowing the terms if this deal went through the club could be better off than they are today.
Astute
Well-Known Member
First of all we don't even know if it was true.
And if Fisher keeps saying that we will be moving in between 2 and four years when a new stadium is built why wouldn't they look for another use of the stadium? And before you say it I don 't want it to happen as I have already been saying on this thread.
Isn't it shocking that how the same people that were saying that the Arena is worthless as nobody would want it are the ones having a go at ACL/CCC when there is a club of some sort that could be interested in the Ricoh as well as other sites?
Money talks. Litigation pisses people off. Unwarranted litigation pisses people off and costs millions. Millions that our club doesn't have.
Otis
Well-Known Member
But don't you fear that building a new stadium is going to financially cripple us for many, many years to come? Just think any monies we have will be concentrated on the new stadium and the outlay of costs for planning and architecture etc. I know they have said funded by investors, but then they say an awful lots of things don't they.
Worries me greatly that us as fans will suffer the folly of a new stadium and it would be 10 years or more before we would see any return or benefit.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
That'd be alrightWhat if the deal with wasps was the only way ACL/CCC could come up with a deal that SISU would agree?
Moff
Well-Known Member
Said like the true Wasps fan you are. Vested interest I would say. What does your mate James Haskell think about the move up here?
Otis
Well-Known Member
I always find OSB very, very balanced and well reasoned.
I am the opposite, as I have no rhyme ir reason and am completely unbalanced.
Seaside-Skyblue
Well-Known Member
Just thinking, would this potentially mean Wasps could kit the Ricoh out with new coloured seating etc? And those bloody rugby lines in and around the football lines on the pitch will look horrendous.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Otis
Well-Known Member
It's OK, SISU have a cunning plan. What could possibly go wrong
They're going to raise funds by Fisher having a sponsored beard shave off?
That'll be £500. Just another 19.99 million and a bit to find. Easy peasy.
MichaelCCFC
New Member
I very definitely did not in any way mean to 'question your loyalty' but if there is anything I have said that suggests that then I unreservedly apologise because my posts have not meant anything like that whatsoever. I suspect where we disagree is on the extent and limits of fan influence. As I've already posted on this thread, plenty of people said fans could not affect the decision to move to ntfc but we proved we could. You ask: "Can I really affect any of that no, because SISU/ACL/CCFC/CCC will do the deal that suits them. That's a deal that in reality will have next to no input from fans." That's where I disagree. If the Trust made clear at this stage that fans are united in opposing the wasps plan and want acl-sisu to work together in the best interests of ccfc, and will fight against the wasps deal if it progresses just as the ntfc move was fought against, there would be every chance of success
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
we protested cov moving to northampton so WHY THE FUCK would we not protest council selling stadium to another sports team weeks after we finally return?
like i said, some people care about about hating sisu than loving ccfc and its pathetic.
like i said, some people care about about hating sisu than loving ccfc and its pathetic.
Otis
Well-Known Member
It's fine saying that, Michael, but first shouldn't we see what the Wasps plan is?
The more I think about it, the more I believe that CCFC will have to be included in any deal. The council would get so much flak over this if it was allowed to go ahead and CCFC were just cast to the winds.
I am now thinking it would either be a joint venture or that it is a ploy to force Sisu's hand about a real deal for the Arena.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
One question Michael. If the Trust didn't take the lead on this would you be leading the charge again like you did with KCIC or has some of the shit you had to take from a few individuals for doing that put you off?
Seems you're the right man for the job to me. You have the experiance from one (won't change a thing, according to some) succesful campaign that could give a KCITRAWO protest group a head start. Although clearly it would be best if the trust took the lead.
Otis
Well-Known Member
The protest group would have to be KCICKAW.
Keep Coventry In Coventry, Kill All Wasps.
Nick
Administrator
I agree, we don't know too much do we?
For all we know it could be like when we bought Robert Jarni
skybluefred
New Member
Then it would not be accepted, ACL are a business and need to make money not throw it away.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I agree, we don't know too much do we?
For all we know it could be like when we bought Robert Jarni
Or mowed our lawns
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
apology accepted but not necessary Michael. We always will differ on some things
MichaelCCFC
New Member
One thing is certain - I won't be involved because I've done my bit and it's now up to others. The Trust is the only fans' group now in existence and with fans more united than in a long time the Trust is in a position to use this as an opportunity to make clear its aims and strategy and get acl-sisu to wake up and smell the coffee.
duffer
Well-Known Member
I agree, we don't know too much do we?
For all we know it could be like when we bought Robert Jarni
It could be, but I think you might be giving SISU a bit more credit than they deserve. They might have access to some deep pockets, and a QC on speed-dial, but as an organisation they're tiny. I'd be surprised if they'd managed to get themselves conveniently involved with Wasps just to put one over ACL.
Regardless, imho, any plan that means moving a club further away from it's supporters is wrong. Even if it somehow benefits CCFC (it won't), it's still wrong.
Fwiw, my opinion is that it's probably a piece of convenient bullshit that benefits both Wasps and ACL because it helps them out with the deals they really want. For Wasps, I'd imagine that's something closer to London, for ACL it's to push SISU back towards the table.
Once again, we're the mugs in the middle who have to worry about it all.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
Spot on Otis.
There is no way negotiations between Wasps/ACL/CCC would proceed without CCC taking due consideration of CCFC's position.
That would logically mean that SISU would have to be involved at least to some extent. The question then would be how SISU would react/respond.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Especially nowafter what Bob Ainsworth has said.
skybluefred
New Member
Wasps are a very successful sports team and are certainly not stupid. CCFC on recent history cannot be classed as successful in any way.
Sisu according to Fisher are not interested in buying the Ricoh. We do not know if Wasps have made an offer and we do not know if sisu would out
bid them.
More the pity because CCFC not Otium or sisu should own the Ricoh and it's revenues.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
CCC say the Ricoh is not for sale, we are talking ACL here.
Obviously Wasps see the Ricoh on a long term lease as good business whilst for some reason SISU don't
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Said like the true Wasps fan you are. Vested interest I would say. What does your mate James Haskell think about the move up here?
He's a big lad. If there's food; he's happy ;-)
lamtara2006
Member
All supporters - those of Coventry City, Coventry Rugby and Wasps - are going to be naturally concerned by the potential threats that this news brings. After what we have suffered, my sympathies are very much with Wasps fans.
ACL however have a duty to their stakeholders to pursue the best interests of their stakeholders. Like it or not, CCFC fans are not stakeholders in ACL. That is not to say that our interests should be entirely ignored and I will explain later.
While it can be argued that the Club as a customer of ACL is a stakeholder, the Owners & Directors of CCFC have hardly been a model partner to ACL. Even now, there is a limited commitment for the Sky Blues playing at the Ricoh with the arrangement only certain for 2 years on a 'day rental' basis rather than a full tenancy agreement. Tim Fisher continues to push the 'stadium ownership' line which undermines the relationship. Sisu are still pursuing the Appeal against the JR verdict in which ACL are a defendant.
In these circumstances it is no surprise that ACL are considering other business opportunities that can secure a long-term future for the Ricoh Arena. In doing so, I would hope that Chris Robinson and his fellow Directors of ACL will recognise the part played by supporters in getting CCFC back to the Ricoh and that ACL currently benefit from an (albeit temporary) arrangement which so many of us helped to bring about. There may be no formal obligation but ACL definitely owe the fans a favour imo.
Therefore, in any negotiations that may be ongoing, I would like to think that the door will be left open for as long as possible by ACL for CCFC to obtain a permanent return to the Ricoh, whatever the ownership arrangements may be. We should apply whatever pressure we can towards that goal.
Most of all, this should be a wake-up call for Sisu and the Directors of the club. In a competitive world, it's up to them to put forward a sufficiently good deal that means ACL don't have to consider offers from Wasps or any other franchise. Drop the legal proceedings and start talks with ACL that bring about a long-term tenancy at the Arena for Coventry City. Supporters are not stakeholders in ACL but we definitely do have a strong involvement in our club. We should therefore bring the pressure back on the Directors and Owners of the Club to get back to the table and get a deal done.
ACL however have a duty to their stakeholders to pursue the best interests of their stakeholders. Like it or not, CCFC fans are not stakeholders in ACL. That is not to say that our interests should be entirely ignored and I will explain later.
While it can be argued that the Club as a customer of ACL is a stakeholder, the Owners & Directors of CCFC have hardly been a model partner to ACL. Even now, there is a limited commitment for the Sky Blues playing at the Ricoh with the arrangement only certain for 2 years on a 'day rental' basis rather than a full tenancy agreement. Tim Fisher continues to push the 'stadium ownership' line which undermines the relationship. Sisu are still pursuing the Appeal against the JR verdict in which ACL are a defendant.
In these circumstances it is no surprise that ACL are considering other business opportunities that can secure a long-term future for the Ricoh Arena. In doing so, I would hope that Chris Robinson and his fellow Directors of ACL will recognise the part played by supporters in getting CCFC back to the Ricoh and that ACL currently benefit from an (albeit temporary) arrangement which so many of us helped to bring about. There may be no formal obligation but ACL definitely owe the fans a favour imo.
Therefore, in any negotiations that may be ongoing, I would like to think that the door will be left open for as long as possible by ACL for CCFC to obtain a permanent return to the Ricoh, whatever the ownership arrangements may be. We should apply whatever pressure we can towards that goal.
Most of all, this should be a wake-up call for Sisu and the Directors of the club. In a competitive world, it's up to them to put forward a sufficiently good deal that means ACL don't have to consider offers from Wasps or any other franchise. Drop the legal proceedings and start talks with ACL that bring about a long-term tenancy at the Arena for Coventry City. Supporters are not stakeholders in ACL but we definitely do have a strong involvement in our club. We should therefore bring the pressure back on the Directors and Owners of the Club to get back to the table and get a deal done.
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
Totally agree - ACL want SISU to stop talking about building a new stadium etc.. and commit to a longer deal. However still possible for WASPS and CCFC to share as we all know SISU will never build a stadium even if they now have the support of CCC. Their post Ransom plan was all about getting the Ricoh on the cheap and this may have gone.
Mr Fisher, the Chairman of our club, needs to answer the question - Are CCFC/Otium interested in a major share of the Ricoh leasehold? Yes or No? No more bull. If the answer is no then its clearly time to resign!There is no update on the new ground and no long term plan at our current ground!
Really need to crank up some pressure on this bloke. Normally these probing questions are with Clive Eakin or Stuart Linnell... no disrespect to either as they are good sports pundits but there must be someone in the City's media that can make things more uncomfortable?
Really need to crank up some pressure on this bloke. Normally these probing questions are with Clive Eakin or Stuart Linnell... no disrespect to either as they are good sports pundits but there must be someone in the City's media that can make things more uncomfortable?
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
If what I say below has already been said then I apologise.
I would imagine that if this is true then talks would have taken place long before now. Probably around the time when Sisu were fucking about in Sixfields saying that they would never return to the Ricoh and were building their own stadium.
So taking your CCFC hat off and putting a business one on, then what would you have done?
Move things forward and Sisu finally bring us home and still won't commit and say they are building their own stadium and this is temporary, then what would you have done?
Everyone took the piss out of ACL for streaking contests and spider conventions but in reality they were just money in the bank and they were obviously looking for a major sporting tenant which this looks like it is.
Before anyone comes back with the childish "ACL supporter shite", I would love to have the Ricoh as our home and wouldn't like this move to go ahead but in reality this seems like a good move for ACL.
One last thing (for all of the ACL haters) if Sisu hadn't fucked about for ages, agreeing and then pulling out of deals, playing russian roulette with our club, lying through their teeth, suing at any given opportunity and generally being a bunch of fucking idiots and actually bought the 50% when they had the chance, then would this even be talked about? No is your fucking answer. Blame anyone, then blame Sisu/Otium.