Are People really Bleating? (34 Viewers)

[The Gentleman]

My argument is, owners come and go, they won't be here on 5 years time, we won't be in a new ground, but now we will never own the Ricoh, this is going to put off any potential decent owners, this also means cov rugby club will never get in the PL, and we all know that medium to long term without access to 365 day year revenue our club will very likely never get back to the top flight. Sisu are wankers, but the other parties have to take some of the blame.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

If Sisu got the Ricoh, would we be owners or still pay rent to what ever arm of Sisu bought it? if Sisu built a new ground would we own it or pay rent to an arm of Sisu? What prrof do you have that Sisu won't be here in 5 years? bearing in mind when a hedge fund bought us in 2007 would people have said they would still be here 7 years later? How do you know that Wasps won't buy CCFC?

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

It's a fair point on the Bedford thing. Were any of the same officials in charge of Cov then who are still there now?

Nah, Keith Fairbrother was there at the time and his reputation is... mixed. He then sold up to Andrew Green (a highly dodgy character!) although interestingly, it's rumoured Fairbrother kept the retail parts of the Butts project, so handicapping any chance of the rugby club moving forward...:thinking about: The current lot then moved in when Green was too incompetent to even be able to liquidate the club properly. Rossborough's the figurehead, but he has managed to attract some investment to stabilise them a little.

Also worth noting that (quite rightly!) the Rugby Union blocked Coventry buying Bedford's top flight place.

Fairbrother's mistake was not buying Bedford and moving them to Coventry, really

 

[robbiethemole]

If SISU had bought it (And they have had many opportunities to do so), they wouldn't have been able to sell it to Wasps would they?

Probably not ...............but they could have rented it to them and reversed the current situation!!! short term blindness over long term success seems to be their condition, and I for one hope it will lead to the end of their disastrous reign as owners

 

[Otis]

Otis you have made fair comments about this all along. I do not include you in the bleating camp. However after a weeks delay I feel we would end up with the same conclusion, its really a no brainier unless people who say they don't wont to buy ACL suddenly matched the offer. Joy's response was we are not interested when she found out.

Others have merely bleated and really struggled to provide any solid rationale.

It's clear why the council would have to do this deal and their outrage and frustration needs to be with the people who refused to do this deal and instead believe building a new stadium was a better option.

A cross party unanimous decision from the council tells you all you need to know

Wouldn't it have be perfect though for the council to announce a vote on the deal but then contact Sisu for a right to reply on the matter. Would have put them in a much better light. Doing it all in the secrecy that ensued created a lot of suspicion of their intentions. That would have put Sisu right on the spot and they would have had to say whether they wanted to make an offer or were still insistent on leaving. Or of course, they might have just continued to say nothing.

We all know Seppala didn't speak up on this til late in the day, but CCC could have put the ball in their caught to respond to ascertain their feeling on the matter.

Had CCC contacted Sisu and Seppala had then come out and said they wouldn't interfere, then I don't think you'd have half the hoo ha we've had on here the past week.

 

[Otis]

Nah, Keith Fairbrother was there at the time and his reputation is... mixed. He then sold up to Andrew Green (a highly dodgy character!) although interestingly, it's rumoured Fairbrother kept the retail parts of the Butts project, so handicapping any chance of the rugby club moving forward...:thinking about: The current lot then moved in when Green was too incompetent to even be able to liquidate the club properly. Rossborough's the figurehead, but he has managed to attract some investment to stabilise them a little.

Also worth noting that (quite rightly!) the Rugby Union blocked Coventry buying Bedford's top flight place.

Fairbrother's mistake was not buying Bedford and moving them to Coventry, really

Well if it's not the same officials, I would say the current Cov owners have no reason to feel at all guilty about what happened under previous stewardship.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Well if it's not the same officials, I would say the current Cov owners have no reason to feel at all guilty about what happened under previous stewardship.

tbh I can't remember if Rossborough had a role at the club at the time or not. He's been involved for years in some capacity, on and off. Fairbrother definitely drove the club at the time though. Things were... on the one hand seemingly well-run, on the other hand Bedford was odd, very odd (not just the idea, but the fact Bedford were nailed on for relegation anyway!) and the Butts redevelopment was... a good plan in theory, but maybe not executed as well as it might (sound familiar?!?)

Proper Coventry kid though, is Rossborough, even if it was Henry VIII Depending on which school was unlucky enough to have to accept the likes of Tony, they might have been taught by him too...

 

[wingy]

Wouldn't it have be perfect though for the council to announce a vote on the deal but then contact Sisu for a right to reply on the matter. Would have put them in a much better light. Doing it all in the secrecy that ensued created a lot of suspicion of their intentions. That would have put Sisu right on the spot and they would have had to say whether they wanted to make an offer or were still insistent on leaving. Or of course, they might have just continued to say nothing.

We all know Seppala didn't speak up on this til late in the day, but CCC could have put the ball in their caught to respond to ascertain their feeling on the matter.

Had CCC contacted Sisu and Seppala had then come out and said they wouldn't interfere, then I don't think you'd have half the hoo ha we've had on here the past week.

i'd wager SISU have known of this for 6-8 weeks In advance Otis ,as long as Byng has anyway.

 

[fernandopartridge]

SISU buy the club
SISU decide to go for promotion over activating their right to buy ACL. The plan fails.
After plan A fails SISU go on a cost saving exercise that ultimately leads to relegation and lower crowds.
SISU attempt to negotiate a lower rent deal and buy half of ACL.
During these periods of negotiation they withhold rent.
They shake on a rent deal then back track.
They move the football club 35 miles away.
A high court judge accuses them of attempting to distress the company they are buying.
They take legal action against one half of the people they need to do business with in order to buy ACL.
They keep going with their legal action despite twice getting told its not worth it.
They repeatedly say they do not want to buy ACL. That they are building their own stadium.
When they return to the Ricoh it is a short term deal as they are going to build a new stadium.

Wasps approach the council and agree to buy all of ACL. They agree the football club can use the Ricoh as much as they want and will have primacy on matches.
Coventry Rugby club say they will not raise an objection to wasps coming.
Wasps say they will develop the surrounding area that SISU said they wouldn't.

I want CCFC owning the Ricoh. I want CCFC to be getting all those revenues.

However I can't fathom out for a second why some on here can't understand that there is only one reason that has not happened.

SISU did not do what wasps have. If they did we would own ACL.

If you want to have a moan do it to SISU not the council.

The attention seeker is back. Nobody cares about SISU.

 

[wingy]

tbh I can't remember if Rossborough had a role at the club at the time or not. He's been involved for years in some capacity, on and off.

Proper Coventry kid though, even if it was Henry VIII Depending on which school was unlucky enough to have to accept the likes of Tony, they might have been taught by him too...

Yes he was a pretty controversial head of Ashlawn wasn't he .

 

[dongonzalos]

The attention seeker is back. Nobody cares about SISU.

Another well put argument. Well done

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Yes he was a pretty controversial head of Ashlawn wasn't he .

Not that I knew of?

Ashlawn always had a good rep when I went to school in Rugby, even if they were lucky enough not to have me as a pupil

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I've asked this question to others without reply so maybe you can answer. If you were a councillor or on the board at ACL and at first Sisu said they were never coming back and then when they finally had to (because they had royally fucked up) with their tail between their legs but said that they would not be bidding for the Ricoh because it's not what they want and they were carrying on with Legoland, would you take the big risk and wait or would you look for other suitors?

Why would it be a risk? were the council desperate to sell? The stadium was built for CCFC and the council could have held onto it until the circumstances were right for CCFC to purchase it.

Not to mention the fact the council would never sell to the football club under SISU even if they did declare an interest. Would have been interesting if SISU had came out in the last week and said we will match Wasps offer as I'm sure the council would have done everything in their power to make sure Wasps got it ahead of CCFC.

 

[wingy]

Not that I knew of?

Always had a good rep when I went to school in Rugby, even if they were lucky enough not to have me as a pupil

Couple of Tribunal type cases I think re ;- the bullying of a couple of members of staff.

Think he's a decent type myself and they should have manned up to the challenge ,although they were female IIRC.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Couple of Tribunal type cases I think re ;- the bullying of a copule of memebers of staff.

Fair enough, I might have to toddle off and do some Googling

 

[dongonzalos]

Wouldn't it have be perfect though for the council to announce a vote on the deal but then contact Sisu for a right to reply on the matter. Would have put them in a much better light. Doing it all in the secrecy that ensued created a lot of suspicion of their intentions. That would have put Sisu right on the spot and they would have had to say whether they wanted to make an offer or were still insistent on leaving. Or of course, they might have just continued to say nothing.

We all know Seppala didn't speak up on this til late in the day, but CCC could have put the ball in their caught to respond to ascertain their feeling on the matter.

Had CCC contacted Sisu and Seppala had then come out and said they wouldn't interfere, then I don't think you'd have half the hoo ha we've had on here the past week.

I know what you are saying and in a perfect world you are right.

On the flip side how would wasps react that?

We are just going to ask the football club who said they don't want to buy if they will match your offer? If they do we will Dutch you. Then the council must again negotiate with SISU.

When Joy first replied she said we still are not interested.

To be honest I also believe they have known about it for a few months.

They have made no attempt to counter bid.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

SISU buy the club
SISU decide to go for promotion over activating their right to buy ACL. The plan fails.
After plan A fails SISU go on a cost saving exercise that ultimately leads to relegation and lower crowds.
SISU attempt to negotiate a lower rent deal and buy half of ACL.
During these periods of negotiation they withhold rent.
They shake on a rent deal then back track.
They move the football club 35 miles away.
A high court judge accuses them of attempting to distress the company they are buying.
They take legal action against one half of the people they need to do business with in order to buy ACL.
They keep going with their legal action despite twice getting told its not worth it.
They repeatedly say they do not want to buy ACL. That they are building their own stadium.
When they return to the Ricoh it is a short term deal as they are going to build a new stadium.

Wasps approach the council and agree to buy all of ACL. They agree the football club can use the Ricoh as much as they want and will have primacy on matches.
Coventry Rugby club say they will not raise an objection to wasps coming.
Wasps say they will develop the surrounding area that SISU said they wouldn't.

I want CCFC owning the Ricoh. I want CCFC to be getting all those revenues.

However I can't fathom out for a second why some on here can't understand that there is only one reason that has not happened.

SISU did not do what wasps have. If they did we would own ACL.

If you want to have a moan do it to SISU not the council.

Don, I don't think anyone can call me anything but a sisu-hater but you're wrong on this one. mds's post is spot on - "The council havnt done anything wrong, they sold a business that was there to be sold, business is business. Fuck the locals, fuck the history, fuck the City, they screwed over the two biggest sporting clubs in the City, they have done permanently to the Wasps what they where crying about being done to us last year. Only people happy with this clusterfuck are the accountants and the local living Wasps fans, how anyone else could be happy with this IDK. British sport and British sporting traditions are being ripped appart slowly and surely and CCC have just dealt a huge blow to all that was and is ours."

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Fair enough, I might have to toddle off and do some Googling

Cleared on all cases, I see.

 

[Alan Dugdale]

Well if it's not the same officials, I would say the current Cov owners have no reason to feel at all guilty about what happened under previous stewardship.

They have been pretty muted about it all though haven't they? While Fairbrother might not hold the reins anymore I would be surprised if some of those involved in merging Cov and Bedford into the 'Coventry Blues' are not still around the club. I might be completely wrong, but I wouldn't be too surprised if some at Cov would be happy to see a merger into the 'Coventry Wasps' in due course. In my experience rugby followers don't have the same one eyed passion for their clubs that football supporters do, and that the occasion is as important as the result to many, so the idea of franchising is not as abhorrent as it is to football fans, where the professional game has been in place for 125 years with clubs built around, loyal working class support.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Wouldn't it have be perfect though for the council to announce a vote on the deal but then contact Sisu for a right to reply on the matter. Would have put them in a much better light. Doing it all in the secrecy that ensued created a lot of suspicion of their intentions. That would have put Sisu right on the spot and they would have had to say whether they wanted to make an offer or were still insistent on leaving. Or of course, they might have just continued to say nothing.

We all know Seppala didn't speak up on this til late in the day, but CCC could have put the ball in their caught to respond to ascertain their feeling on the matter.

Had CCC contacted Sisu and Seppala had then come out and said they wouldn't interfere, then I don't think you'd have half the hoo ha we've had on here the past week.

The same deal should have been offered to the football club before any sale to Wasps went through. Then the club could have came out with a definitive yes or no. They wouldn't do that though as they'd shit themselves that SISU might have taken them up on the offer.

 

[skybluetony176]

Not that I knew of?

Ashlawn always had a good rep when I went to school in Rugby, even if they were lucky enough not to have me as a pupil

Which school did you go to northern?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Which school did you go to northern?

That would be telling

 

[skybluetony176]

That would be telling

Tease. I wanted to work out if you should be reported for the trades description act for using wisdom in your users name

 

[Nick]

Tease. I wanted to work out if you should be reported for the trades description act for using wisdom in your users name

It is ok, the site is already being monitored by trading standards for people describing themselves as Coventry City fans

 

[Astute]

The same deal should have been offered to the football club before any sale to Wasps went through. Then the club could have came out with a definitive yes or no. They wouldn't do that though as they'd shit themselves that SISU might have taken them up on the offer.

Is this offer a lease to SISU and Joy when they have said constantly that they need to own their own stadium and are going to build one. They said that the reason for coming back to the Ricoh for up to four years was to give them enough time to build a stadium. They also kept saying that they didn't trust CCC enough to be able to do a deal with them.

I am as pissed off as anyone else that our club will not be able to own the arena in the future easily. What could CCC have done differently to have given this a chance of happening? Have they decided to let it go to Wasps because of the time and money constantly taken up with litigation? Did they not want to risk being left with a white elephant like last year that some on here thought was a good reason to sell it to SISU......although they would never negotiate any deal.

The person I blame the most is Joy. It all seems to be her idea. Does everyone remember when Fisher seems to have agreed the rent free deal and cheap rental just for Joy to say no? Taking us to Northampton to try and distress ACL. Not paying the money to ACL until well after it should have been paid although they managed to get a reduction. This wouldn't have helped the trust. And it seems that the talks with Wasps started when Joy started playing her stupid games. Even keeping up with the litigation after losing so badly was a joke.

So yes I am absolutely pissed off that it looks like our club won't own the Ricoh for at least the near future. But I do understand why it has happened. And I also think that the Ricoh will be safer in the hands of Wasps than SISU. It is once SISU have gone that we will be worse off.

I can also see Wasps keeping the rent low for us. They have moved a long way as their present landlord was going to put their rent up. We moved to Northampton to get a lower rent. Some rent is better than no rent.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

They also kept saying that they didn't trust CCC enough to be able to do a deal with them.

Seems they may have had a point...

 

[wingy]

Which school did you go to northern?

I don't think he's of Avon valley Stock .

Another School that ended up with a headmaster type Scandal around 10 yrs back.

 

[Ian1779]

I'll speak to you because I'm sick of speaking to that other div. You, Godiva and others have been saying for ages that it's a white elephant blah blah blah and who the fuck would be interested in the Ricoh. So after proving you all wrong you now move the goalposts to another angle. They CHOSE Wasps simply because Sisu didn't want it, if you're going to tell me they did then why the fuck didn't they when they have had numerous chances and 7 fucking years to take up that option. They come back for a rental period saying they will still build a new stadium and will only be at the Ricoh for 2 + 2 years. If that time went by with ACL sitting on their arses getting streaking contests then when it came to Sisu leaving you would all be saying see, look no one is interested. ACL/CCC took this course as a direct result of Sisu and their fucking shitty devious antics when quite simply they could have just bought the fucking thing like Wasps have.

People say that we will never own the Ricoh now but would we if Sisu had it? No, and the same if they built a new one, we would still pay rent. At least this way we are still in Coventry and there may be a chance that this could force the fucking scum to sell and I would imagine that the Wasps owners may want to buy us.

Lastly, I have said in other threads that I don't really like what has happened, but there are far worse things going on in the world for me to start screaming and crying like some have with threads like RIP ffs. Franchise happens all over the world in all walks of business and I couldn't give a fuck about them so why should I care now. I still get to watch my team in Cov when I can and if (we don't know either way yet) this turns out good for CCFC then so what.

I really think this has pissed some people off because of their hate for ACL/CCC (just as some hate Sisu). Just like when I said if people want to go to MK to watch football, I think of this in the same way. My team is at the Ricoh with different owners of the stadium, so what. Like I said, there are far worse things to get my blood boiling.

I did always state that the Ricoh is a white elephant without CCFC as a part of it.

There's no point trying to defend or understand why SISU did not acquire ACL, because it's not possible to. There will always be the question over whether would have been vetoed.. but there wasn't much desire for anyone at the time to get it done.

We have had nothing but bullshit and mistruths from SISU, it's not like we'd expect anything different. But we've had just as much of that from the council. Except their actions and motives are justified apparently.

I can't get my head around the swiftness of it all. All we've heard is that ACL is doing well.... doesn't need CCFC, and sustainable. Next thing it's gone for a price that is less than what SISU had offered (in terms of proportion) previously.

It doesn't add up....

 

[Astute]

Seems they may have had a point...

Are you trying to say that the lack of trust was more deserved than the other way round?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Seems they may have had a point...

Shots fired

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Are you trying to say that the lack of trust was more deserved than the other way round?

I'm suggesting that they may have had a point...

We really need to get away from the grass is green therefore tigers are fluffy animals that sit on your lap type arguments...

 

[dongonzalos]

Don, I don't think anyone can call me anything but a sisu-hater but you're wrong on this one. mds's post is spot on - "The council havnt done anything wrong, they sold a business that was there to be sold, business is business. Fuck the locals, fuck the history, fuck the City, they screwed over the two biggest sporting clubs in the City, they have done permanently to the Wasps what they where crying about being done to us last year. Only people happy with this clusterfuck are the accountants and the local living Wasps fans, how anyone else could be happy with this IDK. British sport and British sporting traditions are being ripped appart slowly and surely and CCC have just dealt a huge blow to all that was and is ours."

I am not happy with it, I just completely understand why the council did it. No Coventry City Fan should be happy with it. However every Coventry City should understand that the council had no choice and the real solution was our owners behaved like normal businessmen like wasps did.

 

[skybluetony176]

I don't think he's of Avon valley Stock .

Another School that ended up with a headmaster type Scandal around 10 yrs back.

Just a bit. Still we shouldn't fan the flames

 

[Astute]

I did always state that the Ricoh is a white elephant without CCFC as a part of it.

There's no point trying to defend or understand why SISU did not acquire ACL, because it's not possible to. There will always be the question over whether would have been vetoed.. but there wasn't much desire for anyone at the time to get it done.

We have had nothing but bullshit and mistruths from SISU, it's not like we'd expect anything different. But we've had just as much of that from the council. Except their actions and motives are justified apparently.

I can't get my head around the swiftness of it all. All we've heard is that ACL is doing well.... doesn't need CCFC, and sustainable. Next thing it's gone for a price that is less than what SISU had offered (in terms of proportion) previously.

It doesn't add up....

Fisher said that they offered between 2m and 10m. And it looks like this included the mortgage that they tried to get knocked down by at least 75% when they didn't even have permission to do so. So a different offer altogether.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I am not happy with it, I just completely understand why the council did it. No Coventry City Fan should be happy with it. However every Coventry City should understand that the council had no choice and the real solution was our owners behaved like normal businessmen like wasps did.

Absolute bollocks.

 

[dongonzalos]

I did always state that the Ricoh is a white elephant without CCFC as a part of it.

There's no point trying to defend or understand why SISU did not acquire ACL, because it's not possible to. There will always be the question over whether would have been vetoed.. but there wasn't much desire for anyone at the time to get it done.

We have had nothing but bullshit and mistruths from SISU, it's not like we'd expect anything different. But we've had just as much of that from the council. Except their actions and motives are justified apparently.

I can't get my head around the swiftness of it all. All we've heard is that ACL is doing well.... doesn't need CCFC, and sustainable. Next thing it's gone for a price that is less than what SISU had offered (in terms of proportion) previously.

It doesn't add up....

That's my point Ian
I am not happy this happened but I can understand the councils decision. As much as it hurts me it is a no brainer.
SISU's decision to not do what Wasps did I will never understand. Unless they simply don't have the money.
If that's the case where do we stand with the new stadium?