Are People really Bleating? (2 Viewers)

[Nick]

They need to

Outrageous, why do they? Should we just merge the football team with villa?

 

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[The Gentleman]

The council CHOSE to sell to Wasps. They didn't have to did they.. unless everything they portrayed about ACL was a lie.

It was a perfectly successful business we were told.. which had just managed to get it's anchor tenant back. They should have built the relationship back up with the club and gone from there.

I'll speak to you because I'm sick of speaking to that other div. You, Godiva and others have been saying for ages that it's a white elephant blah blah blah and who the fuck would be interested in the Ricoh. So after proving you all wrong you now move the goalposts to another angle. They CHOSE Wasps simply because Sisu didn't want it, if you're going to tell me they did then why the fuck didn't they when they have had numerous chances and 7 fucking years to take up that option. They come back for a rental period saying they will still build a new stadium and will only be at the Ricoh for 2 + 2 years. If that time went by with ACL sitting on their arses getting streaking contests then when it came to Sisu leaving you would all be saying see, look no one is interested. ACL/CCC took this course as a direct result of Sisu and their fucking shitty devious antics when quite simply they could have just bought the fucking thing like Wasps have.

People say that we will never own the Ricoh now but would we if Sisu had it? No, and the same if they built a new one, we would still pay rent. At least this way we are still in Coventry and there may be a chance that this could force the fucking scum to sell and I would imagine that the Wasps owners may want to buy us.

Lastly, I have said in other threads that I don't really like what has happened, but there are far worse things going on in the world for me to start screaming and crying like some have with threads like RIP ffs. Franchise happens all over the world in all walks of business and I couldn't give a fuck about them so why should I care now. I still get to watch my team in Cov when I can and if (we don't know either way yet) this turns out good for CCFC then so what.

I really think this has pissed some people off because of their hate for ACL/CCC (just as some hate Sisu). Just like when I said if people want to go to MK to watch football, I think of this in the same way. My team is at the Ricoh with different owners of the stadium, so what. Like I said, there are far worse things to get my blood boiling.

 

[dongonzalos]

Lets assume for 1 second that we had never had the rental strike, the club leaving, the legal cases etc - and SISU were happy to pay the rent and the deal in place, and plod along nicely.

No money for 'the charity' - no revenue, investment, and all the other spurious reasons you gave just now

Would this course of action occurred.... not in a heartbeat.

It's not about the difficult decision the Councillors faced... it's about the choice they made to betray the city.

The charity have always said they were never intended to be long term owners

 

[stupot07]

Wasps fans have been shafted by their owners and the RFU correct. Like with our move I did not blame Northampton FC I blamed our owners and the FL. More so the FL. The council cannot be blamed for that.

We have not been done over by the council we still get to play at the Ricoh it has been since day one. Our owners stated they did not want to buy ACL so no change there for us.

We rented at the Ricoh from the beginning so no change there.

We threw away the chance to own the lease that I am gutted about but I know who to blame

Ha ha nice wumming.

Hope you like league one and championship football, you're going to be watching for long time.


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[dongonzalos]

Outrageous, why do they? Should we just merge the football team with villa?

CCFC will then get access to the revenue from the Ricoh and stay there.
The new stadium idea would be the end of us financially. It is completely unviable

 

[dongonzalos]

Ha ha nice wumming.

Hope you like league one and championship football, you're going to be watching for long time.


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It obvious you can't answer the well made points

 

[stupot07]

It obvious you can't answer the well made points

Well made point?

RFU and Wasps sole blame, Council are innocent bystanders? That one?

Didn't ACL portion some blame on Northampton when they tried to sue them? Wasn't there fans on here hoping Northampton get relegated because they blamed them?

And what of the impact on CRFC and ccfc? No blame at all about the impact it's going to have on them medium to long term? Community based clubs with over 130 years history?

And ACL were thriving without the football club? That's what they told the judge, they could have used it as a cash cow,

And what revenues do you expect wasps to give us? How much, come on we haven't had one of your maths clubs on a while?


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[shmmeee]

Lets assume for 1 second that we had never had the rental strike, the club leaving, the legal cases etc - and SISU were happy to pay the rent and the deal in place, and plod along nicely.

No money for 'the charity' - no revenue, investment, and all the other spurious reasons you gave just now

Would this course of action occurred.... not in a heartbeat.

It's not about the difficult decision the Councillors faced... it's about the choice they made to betray the city.

You need to decouple CCFC from the City of Coventry.

By any metric, bringing in a top sports side benefits the city.

As soon as CCFC said they don't want the Ricoh and maintained that stance for two years, the council were left with a stadium not being used to its potential. ACL have a duty to increase revenue.

There's two groups of people you could legitimately claim the council has fucked over: Wasps fans (not their constituents), Cov rugby. I'm still yet to see that Cov are as bothered as those on here claim they should be.

This thread is just old political biases rearing their head. No interest in fact or logic, just ridiculous hyperbole that let's you feel some kind of misplaced victim complex you've missed since the last horse you backed turned out lame.

Thread after thread on this shit and not one valid point made, just huge amounts of misinformation and hypocrisy from those making the exact opposite arguments about the Rioch a few months ago and laughing at those that warned CCFC could be replaced.

Fucking joke. If you lot didn't want this to happen you should've backed the fans when Sisu started this game. No use crying about it now. I'll tell you this for a fact: if CCFC hadn't been allowed to have their golden share transferred amid cheering from you lot then it would've been impossible for this to happen. Only when the club did what the likes of Torch and Grendel and RobS were championing did it force the council to start looking for a tenant and that was always going to be an outside team. Now you want us all to join on your crusade again.

Fuck off. I'm going back to the football threads. Long live Connor Thomas.

 

[albatross]

Wasps showed they were prepared to do business at the market rate. They may have negotiated hard and got a good deal but they seem to have dealt openly and honoured what they agreed.

SISU seemed to want to get the assets of ACL for nothing by attempting to distress the assets and remove the Anchor tenant from the arena.

One party was prepared to do business , one was not. Simple as..

 

[wingy]

It's been suggested that to test this they need to feed CCFC LTD around £12M to settle out debts and In the process recoup £6M back for SISU as creditors .

Why not test the loyalty of Higgs to this new deal and offer what they first offered £5.5 M.

that gets us to £11.5M +say £6.5M. for paying down the councils loan like Wasps over 20 yrs .

Pretty close to the Wasps total ,yet with £6M going back into ACL the CCC loan reduces to Circa £7M.

Discount that off both parties deal and they work out to around £15M each ,which Is about what the Pile Is worth and always wasish.

Do they have the money and would Wasps fall away ,or Is It Fait Acompli .

 

[blueflint]

So you approve of the council in their guise as ACL rejecting the CVA which caused us to lose 10 points, in doing so claiming 'they were acting in the best interests of the club'
You approve of the club being charged in excess of £1m per year and having absolutely no access to revenue streams - all long before SISU arrived
You approve of the council selling the home of CCFC (which they did contribute to in fairness) without consultation, or regard for the fans - their stakeholders amongst them.
You approve of the council selling out to a 'franchise team' despite their repeated criticism of the club for moving the club to Northampton
You approve of a sale that in essence is less than what SISU offered in their joint failed negotiations
You approve of the council betraying the football club that has been here since the late 1800's

Wow... you must be so proud.

in a word yes

 

[dongonzalos]

Well made point?

RFU and Wasps sole blame, Council are innocent bystanders? That one?


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Yes those and the decision the councillors were faced with.
The fact the charity will now get 2.77 million.
The fact our owners said they didn't want to buy ACL
The fact they said they are building a new stadium elsewhere.
The flack you would give the council in 5 years time if SISU built their stadium in Hinckley and the council could no longer sell ACL. Despite consistent warnings from SISU that that was what they were intending to do. The jobs, revenue and the raising of the profile for the city getting missed out on...

Yes clearly all I am doing us wumming when your sole argument is 8000 wasps fans were screwed over.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Far more so than our owners I am afraid yes.
I can't see that the council have done anything wrong.

You and others wouldn't.

I'm not forgetting what SISU have done, if they had acted like competent owners it would have never came to us. There's no doubt they are among the worse things to happen to the club in its history.

However only an idiot would continue to defend the councils role in this.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Why should they it is all the councils fault
Sisu have never been serious history shows that ........

It's been suggested that to test this they need to feed CCFC LTD around £12M to settle out debts and In the process recoup £6M back for SISU as creditors .

Why not test the loyalty of Higgs to this new deal and offer what they first offered £5.5 M.

that gets us to £11.5M +say £6.5M. for paying down the councils loan like Wasps over 20 yrs .

Pretty close to the Wasps total ,yet with £6M going back into ACL the CCC loan reduces to Circa £7M.

Discount that off both parties deal and they work out to around £15M each ,which Is about what the Pile Is worth and always wasish.

Do they have the money and would Wasps fall away ,or Is It Fait Acompli .

 

[Ian1779]

The charity have always said they were never intended to be long term owners

Completely irrelevant to the point I was making. If the owners of the club had just decided to take the deal they agreed without fuss, the stadium would never have been sold to anyone else.

Maybe the biggest mistake SISU made was not sitting tight and paying the £1.3m for longer.... CCC and Higgs would have been begging them to buy it off them

 

[dongonzalos]

You and others wouldn't.

I'm not forgetting what SISU have done, if they had acted like competent owners it would have never came to us. There's no doubt they are among the worse things to happen to the club in its history.

However only an idiot would continue to defend the councils role in this.

Only an idiot would not have taken the wasps deal on the hope SISU are bluffing and would buy ACL when everything they have done so far suggests they wouldn't

 

[stupot07]

Yes those and the decision the councillors were faced with.
The fact the charity will now get 2.77 million.
The fact our owners said they didn't want to buy ACL
The fact they said they are building a new stadium elsewhere.
The flack you would give the council in 5 years time if SISU built their stadium in Hinckley and the council could no longer sell ACL. Despite consistent warnings from SISU that that was what they were intending to do. The jobs, revenue and the raising of the profile for the city getting missed out on...

Yes clearly all I am doing us wumming when your sole argument is 8000 wasps fans were screwed over.

Hang on Don...I though the new railway, the Ricoh was going to make a mint and rival the NEC, they would have had no problems selling the Ricoh just stick a roof on it.....

And you were pretty adamant the charity shouldn't lose money, they've lost nearly £4m.

You're obviously very happy with this, good for you, good for you.


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[Malaka]

Outrageous, why do they? Should we just merge the football team with villa?

Ok Nick you have gone too far now. Your comment should be on a sticky thread and not tolerated.

 

[blueflint]

Well made point?

RFU and Wasps sole blame, Council are innocent bystanders? That one?

Didn't ACL portion some blame on Northampton when they tried to sue them? Wasn't there fans on here hoping Northampton get relegated because they blamed them?

And what of the impact on CRFC and ccfc? No blame at all about the impact it's going to have on them medium to long term? Community based clubs with over 130 years history?

And ACL were thriving without the football club? That's what they told the judge, they could have used it as a cash cow,

And what revenues do you expect wasps to give us? How much, come on we haven't had one of your maths clubs on a while?


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but SISU don't want the RICOH so wheres your argument they do the situation hasn't changed we're still tenants

 

[Otis]

SISU buy the club
SISU decide to go for promotion over activating their right to buy ACL. The plan fails.
After plan A fails SISU go on a cost saving exercise that ultimately leads to relegation and lower crowds.
SISU attempt to negotiate a lower rent deal and buy half of ACL.
During these periods of negotiation they withhold rent.
They shake on a rent deal then back track.
They move the football club 35 miles away.
A high court judge accuses them of attempting to distress the company they are buying.
They take legal action against one half of the people they need to do business with in order to buy ACL.
They keep going with their legal action despite twice getting told its not worth it.
They repeatedly say they do not want to buy ACL. That they are building their own stadium.
When they return to the Ricoh it is a short term deal as they are going to build a new stadium.

Wasps approach the council and agree to buy all of ACL. They agree the football club can use the Ricoh as much as they want and will have primacy on matches.
Coventry Rugby club say they will not raise an objection to wasps coming.
Wasps say they will develop the surrounding area that SISU said they wouldn't.

I want CCFC owning the Ricoh. I want CCFC to be getting all those revenues.

However I can't fathom out for a second why some on here can't understand that there is only one reason that has not happened.

SISU did not do what wasps have. If they did we would own ACL.

If you want to have a moan do it to SISU not the council.

There are some good points in there, Don.

I have no problem with ACL talking to other parties, but the franchising aspect of it was wrong, especially after what we had suffered in Northampton.

I can understand why the council did the deal, but the timing of it was a little suspicious. On Monday the Trust and posters such as myself, simply called for that key vote to be postponed so that consultation could be made with such as CCFC and the Trust and the supporters' group.

Why the deal had to be done on Tuesday seems rather odd. A week's postponement of negotiations wouldn't have done any harm at all.

The 2 key issues for me are, that we have allowed a franchise in, when the Northampton exercise should have really taught us something and that the council rushed this through so quickly without any fan consultation and failure to at least talk to the owners of Coventry City Football Club.

 

[dongonzalos]

Completely irrelevant to the point I was making. If the owners of the club had just decided to take the deal they agreed without fuss, the stadium would never have been sold to anyone else.

Maybe the biggest mistake SISU made was not sitting tight and paying the £1.3m for longer.... CCC and Higgs would have been begging them to buy it off them

Totally relevant

 

[Mr T - Sukka!]

Why is this getting such a reaction? I dont see all the fuss.

CCFC just still pay the same amount of rent so nothing has changed. Just rent £ to a different company.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

By any metric, bringing in a top sports side benefits the city.

Not so.

 

[stupot07]

but SISU don't want the RICOH so wheres your argument they do the situation hasn't changed we're still tenants

My argument is, owners come and go, they won't be here on 5 years time, we won't be in a new ground, but now we will never own the Ricoh, this is going to put off any potential decent owners, this also means cov rugby club will never get in the PL, and we all know that medium to long term without access to 365 day year revenue our club will very likely never get back to the top flight. Sisu are wankers, but the other parties have to take some of the blame.




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[The Gentleman]

You and others wouldn't.

I'm not forgetting what SISU have done, if they had acted like competent owners it would have never came to us. There's no doubt they are among the worse things to happen to the club in its history.

However only an idiot would continue to defend the councils role in this.

I've asked this question to others without reply so maybe you can answer. If you were a councillor or on the board at ACL and at first Sisu said they were never coming back and then when they finally had to (because they had royally fucked up) with their tail between their legs but said that they would not be bidding for the Ricoh because it's not what they want and they were carrying on with Legoland, would you take the big risk and wait or would you look for other suitors?

 

[Monners]

Is this the new argument thread (but without a new argument)? Just asking!

 

[Alan Dugdale]

Tell you what I am proud of and thats the dignified stance of Cov because this must be really hurting. I wont go and watch Wasps however will support Cov when I can.

Cov have been as badly managed in the last 20 years or so as CCFC. They decided to stay amateurish when professionalism kicked in and fell down the pecking order of clubs as a result. This was despite a history of being one of the country's major clubs and a regular provider of internationals. At grass roots level Coventry has remained a rugby town, providing internationals such as Back, Grewcock, Goode etc, with Grewcock being the only one to ever play for Cov at the start of his career. Once they fell behind their peers Cov sought to 'franchise' their way to the top by moving in on Bedford and taking their place in the Premiership, so Cov can no way claim any moral high ground in any of this, which is why I guess they have remained fairly quiet on the matter.

 

[The Gentleman]

Not so.

So Wasps fans won't be spending a penny in the city then?

 

[Malaka]

I'll speak to you because I'm sick of speaking to that other div. You, Godiva and others have been saying for ages that it's a white elephant blah blah blah and who the fuck would be interested in the Ricoh. So after proving you all wrong you now move the goalposts to another angle. They CHOSE Wasps simply because Sisu didn't want it, if you're going to tell me they did then why the fuck didn't they when they have had numerous chances and 7 fucking years to take up that option. They come back for a rental period saying they will still build a new stadium and will only be at the Ricoh for 2 + 2 years. If that time went by with ACL sitting on their arses getting streaking contests then when it came to Sisu leaving you would all be saying see, look no one is interested. ACL/CCC took this course as a direct result of Sisu and their fucking shitty devious antics when quite simply they could have just bought the fucking thing like Wasps have.

People say that we will never own the Ricoh now but would we if Sisu had it? No, and the same if they built a new one, we would still pay rent. At least this way we are still in Coventry and there may be a chance that this could force the fucking scum to sell and I would imagine that the Wasps owners may want to buy us.

Lastly, I have said in other threads that I don't really like what has happened, but there are far worse things going on in the world for me to start screaming and crying like some have with threads like RIP ffs. Franchise happens all over the world in all walks of business and I couldn't give a fuck about them so why should I care now. I still get to watch my team in Cov when I can and if (we don't know either way yet) this turns out good for CCFC then so what.

I really think this has pissed some people off because of their hate for ACL/CCC (just as some hate Sisu). Just like when I said if people want to go to MK to watch football, I think of this in the same way. My team is at the Ricoh with different owners of the stadium, so what. Like I said, there are far worse things to get my blood boiling.

Spot on!

 

[dongonzalos]

There are some good points in there, Don.

I have no problem with ACL talking to other parties, but the franchising aspect of it was wrong, especially after what we had suffered in Northampton.

I can understand why the council did the deal, but the timing of it was a little suspicious. On Monday the Trust and posters such as myself, simply called for that key vote to be postponed so that consultation could be made with such as CCFC and the Trust and the supporters' group.

Why the deal had to be done on Tuesday seems rather odd. A week's postponement of negotiations wouldn't have done any harm at all.

The 2 key issues for me are, that we have allowed a franchise in, when the Northampton exercise should have really taught us something and that the council rushed this through so quickly without any fan consultation and failure to at least talk to the owners of Coventry City Football Club.

Otis you have made fair comments about this all along. I do not include you in the bleating camp. However after a weeks delay I feel we would end up with the same conclusion, its really a no brainier unless people who say they don't wont to buy ACL suddenly matched the offer. Joy's response was we are not interested when she found out.

Others have merely bleated and really struggled to provide any solid rationale.

It's clear why the council would have to do this deal and their outrage and frustration needs to be with the people who refused to do this deal and instead believe building a new stadium was a better option.

A cross party unanimous decision from the council tells you all you need to know

 

[Deleted member 5849]

So Wasps fans won't be spending a penny in the city then?

Probably not, no.

Unfortunately this 'by any metric' also tends to look at the short term gain and not the long term cost.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

A cross party unanimous decision from the council tells you all you need to know

That a spineless inability to vote on their own view and not party line is not a party specific characteristic?

 

[dongonzalos]

My argument is, owners come and go, they won't be here on 5 years time, we won't be in a new ground, but now we will never own the Ricoh, this is going to put off any potential decent owners, this also means cov rugby club will never get in the PL, and we all know that medium to long term without access to 365 day year revenue our club will very likely never get back to the top flight. Sisu are wankers, but the other parties have to take some of the blame.




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I was under the impression you were one who maintain there is no one else but SISU and we are stuck with them for a long time?

 

[Otis]

Cov have been as badly managed in the last 20 years or so as CCFC. They decided to stay amateurish when professionalism kicked in and fell down the pecking order of clubs as a result. This was despite a history of being one of the country's major clubs and a regular provider of internationals. At grass roots level Coventry has remained a rugby town, providing internationals such as Back, Grewcock, Goode etc, with Grewcock being the only one to ever play for Cov at the start of his career. Once they fell behind their peers Cov sought to 'franchise' their way to the top by moving in on Bedford and taking their place in the Premiership, so Cov can no way claim any moral high ground in any of this, which is why I guess they have remained fairly quiet on the matter.

It's a fair point on the Bedford thing. Were any of the same officials in charge of Cov then who are still there now?

 

[Otis]

That a spineless inability to vote on their own view and not party line is not a party specific characteristic?

Should have been an open vote and not one on party decision terms.