Are People really Bleating? (30 Viewers)

[dongonzalos]

OK, just a couple of points.

First and foremost what regeneration around the stadium? have you a source? as I am yet to hear of the proposals.
Where do you base 10 million a year revenue from?
How will Wasps moving in create 200 jobs?

As I see it, its a disgrace that the ground was never purchased by SISU.

I also feel that its strange that those who said ACL is such a viable buisness when the club left, have suddently claimed the Council had no option but to sell. Why if it was a profitable business?

I also think its hypocricy in the extreme by the Council to sell to a club that is moving miles from its base, when it regularly entered the press to call for CCFC to come home when we moved to Northampton as the Club belonged in its 'home' city (as it should bloody well be) and also sued Northampton over it allowing CCFC to move there.

I know people will disagree, but I cant understand this sudden acceptance that high profile (not that high) Wasps are going to make a difference to the Ricoh and the City. They are pretty poorly supported as it is, and I can see there crowds quickly dwindle as the novelty wears off, watching another mid to lower league team, just in a different sport.

Whilst I cant wait to see the back of SISU I also cant understand the desire of some on the site to see Wasps take over the club, as already despising and being highly suspicious of secretive owners that are prepared to move the club from its home base, why would we want another who have done exactly the same?

Moff I applaud you for attempting reasoned debate.
Rather than, wum, attention seeker and absolute bollox, when faced points that are bloody hard to disagree with.

 

---

[Moff]

The figures were as I thought you may realise hypothetical.
If the council did not do the deal with Wasps on the basis that SISU 'may' against everything they are saying change their minds and buy ACL.
They go ahead as they maintain and build a stadium outside Coventry.
People have said that ACL just needs to break even in order to not be distressed. Their books suggest they were doing just that.
However the charity always maintained it did but want t be there for the long haul.

Wasps have said they will build a new training facility. That creates jobs.

They have talked about developing the land as well.

The council gave a figure of the estimated revenue to the city when wasps played a few games before.

My point is that someone will bring all this up and the council will get slaughtered if SISU build the new stadium and North Warwickshire get all the increase in jobs, revenue and profile.

Whilst the Ricoh continues to break even or makes small profit.

The council will get lambasted with the figures if what they turned down.

Why did they turn it down because they did not believe what SISU kept telling them over and over again

On here we have repeatedly been told no one else will put a sports team in the Ricoh.

If that is the case this is a freak opportunity that will not be repeated.

Most just understand the council had no choice.
SISU had a real choice (unless the money isn't there)

Dongo.

Thanks for taking the time to answer, which I thoroughly respect.
Not sure if your really addressed my questions or my post...you arent in politics are you

Whichever we will respect each others thoughts even though we agree on some and differ on others.

 

[skybluetony176]

OK, just a couple of points.

First and foremost what regeneration around the stadium? have you a source? as I am yet to hear of the proposals.
Where do you base 10 million a year revenue from?
How will Wasps moving in create 200 jobs?

As I see it, its a disgrace that the ground was never purchased by SISU.

I also feel that its strange that those who said ACL is such a viable buisness when the club left, have suddently claimed the Council had no option but to sell. Why if it was a profitable business?

I also think its hypocricy in the extreme by the Council to sell to a club that is moving miles from its base, when it regularly entered the press to call for CCFC to come home when we moved to Northampton as the Club belonged in its 'home' city (as it should bloody well be) and also sued Northampton over it allowing CCFC to move there.

I know people will disagree, but I cant understand this sudden acceptance that high profile (not that high) Wasps are going to make a difference to the Ricoh and the City. They are pretty poorly supported as it is, and I can see there crowds quickly dwindle as the novelty wears off, watching another mid to lower league team, just in a different sport.

Whilst I cant wait to see the back of SISU I also cant understand the desire of some on the site to see Wasps take over the club, as already despising and being highly suspicious of secretive owners that are prepared to move the club from its home base, why would we want another who have done exactly the same?

Who was "claiming" on here that ACL was a viable business? My memory is that OSB analysed their last available set of books when they came out and the facts spoke for themselves. No claiming was required. The facts aren't in dispute. Well apart from Grendulls "accountant".

You could also (if you want to) take Mr Fishers words of wisdom "you don't sell at the bottom of the cycle" perhaps CCC took this on board and decided that ACL was at the top of the cycle.

Truth is no one on here will have any idea what state ACL is in at the point of sale until the relevant accounts become available to view. So it's not really a point anyone can use to form a factual argument at the moment.

The hypocrisy of the sale is undeniable. So I'm not going to deny it.

 

[Ashdown]

97% never came to watch football at the Ricoh................what a fucking load of rubbish. The support levels percentage wise are poor but 6-7000 of those fans minimum are floating which means true 'Supporters' all be it irregular probably number 50% plus surrounding areas ?!

 

[lordsummerisle]

Of course the Wasps offer was better. It existed and survived for longer than Fisher did his Homer Simpson money-with-cymbals-n-his-head impression for. The SISU 'bid' was without candour compared to the one now accepted.

And the council have exercised their lawful responsibility to the totality of their electorate. 97% never come to watch the football club at The Ricoh. As such, the council's deal bears fiduciary responsibility to the vast majority of the people it serves and who don't watch football 'live'.

Especially given the backdrop of the football club's owners incessant and habitual failure to exercise its options toward ownership, and assertion it preferred to build anew. A fact you just don't want to face up to, or seemingly judge as harshly as you will the council

I'd suggest that a rather smaller proportion of the populace want to watch Wasps "live" either in their home or ours to be honest.

Though there are a few unprincipled souls who will appreciate it i expect, just not enough to make them viable.

 

[Grendel]

Ha ha nice wumming.

Hope you like league one and championship football, you're going to be watching for long time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

I doubt he's ever watched it or ever will

 

[lordsummerisle]

97% never came to watch football at the Ricoh................what a fucking load of rubbish. The support levels percentage wise are poor but 6-7000 of those fans minimum are floating which means true 'Supporters' all be it irregular probably number 50% plus surrounding areas ?!

True colours being shown by some now Ashdown.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

97% never came to watch football at the Ricoh................what a fucking load of rubbish. The support levels percentage wise are poor but 6-7000 of those fans minimum are floating which means true 'Supporters' all be it irregular probably number 50% plus surrounding areas ?!

Sorry Ashdown; the population of Coventry is 330,000. CCFC's average gate in 2012-13 was 10,950 - which equates to 3.3% of the population. Now, as we've seen, it's even lower. Like it or not, 97% of the population aren't going regularly

 

[Moff]

Who was "claiming" on here that ACL was a viable business?

Tony, I seem to remember there were a number of posters who talked of how the business was viable and still successful (on a very loose level) without the club. I cant remember specifics now, and nor am I going to look through old posts, as I haven't the will.

I totally agree with your point that without the books, we cant make an informed decision. We are where we are.

I am sure you like me am sick and tired of the uncertainty, its constant, self defeating and draining. I just want some good news, something better than coming home, which as great as it was, was only due to the arseholes that moved us out in the first place.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

I'd suggest that a rather smaller proportion of the populace want to watch Wasps "live" either in their home or ours to be honest.

Though there are a few unprincipled souls who will appreciate it i expect, just not enough to make them viable.

If it turns out not to be viable then they will sell their shares. I wonder if SISU will still be obsessed with freehold then.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

True colours being shown by some now Ashdown.

Yes; like the one's who won't judge our club's owners for refusing to take up their option of buying into the club; and insisting on this farce of building anew (the net result which has been hugely to the detriment of CCFC); whilst saving the vast majority of their scorn for the council.....

 

[Grendel]

The figures were as I thought you may realise hypothetical.
If the council did not do the deal with Wasps on the basis that SISU 'may' against everything they are saying change their minds and buy ACL.
They go ahead as they maintain and build a stadium outside Coventry.
People have said that ACL just needs to break even in order to not be distressed. Their books suggest they were doing just that.
However the charity always maintained it did but want t be there for the long haul.

Wasps have said they will build a new training facility. That creates jobs.

They have talked about developing the land as well.

The council gave a figure of the estimated revenue to the city when wasps played a few games before.

My point is that someone will bring all this up and the council will get slaughtered if SISU build the new stadium and North Warwickshire get all the increase in jobs, revenue and profile.

Whilst the Ricoh continues to break even or makes small profit.

The council will get lambasted with the figures if what they turned down.

Why did they turn it down because they did not believe what SISU kept telling them over and over again

On here we have repeatedly been told no one else will put a sports team in the Ricoh.

If that is the case this is a freak opportunity that will not be repeated.

Most just understand the council had no choice.
SISU had a real choice (unless the money isn't there)

So when you said The Ricoh was worth £60 million you were wumming for England?

Now I see you are wumming for Europe.

 

[stupot07]

The figures were as I thought you may realise hypothetical.
If the council did not do the deal with Wasps on the basis that SISU 'may' against everything they are saying change their minds and buy ACL.
They go ahead as they maintain and build a stadium outside Coventry.
People have said that ACL just needs to break even in order to not be distressed. Their books suggest they were doing just that.
However the charity always maintained it did but want t be there for the long haul.

Wasps have said they will build a new training facility. That creates jobs.

They have talked about developing the land as well.

The council gave a figure of the estimated revenue to the city when wasps played a few games before.

My point is that someone will bring all this up and the council will get slaughtered if SISU build the new stadium and North Warwickshire get all the increase in jobs, revenue and profile.

Whilst the Ricoh continues to break even or makes small profit.

The council will get lambasted with the figures if what they turned down.

Why did they turn it down because they did not believe what SISU kept telling them over and over again

On here we have repeatedly been told no one else will put a sports team in the Ricoh.

If that is the case this is a freak opportunity that will not be repeated.

Most just understand the council had no choice.
SISU had a real choice (unless the money isn't there)

Wasps have played here just once not a few games

Yes, those accurate figures where they said there was 28000 fans - there were 21000

That those "28000" brought in "£6m" into the local economy in one match - £214 per person.

So what gates are they realistically going to get? 5.7k average in the league last season, likely to be half that given our attendance drop off.
11x (3000x£214)= £7m
5-6 x Heineken cup games* 6x (8000x£214) =£10.2m

Wasps = £17.2m per annum to the local economy
* if they qualify

If £214 is what the average sports fan visits bring to the city, so the Impact of losing us far outweighs the benefits of wasps.

23x (10k x £214) = £49.2m
Cup games 4x (7k x £214) = £6m

Ccfc = £55.2m per annum into the local economy

Let's hope our neighbouring local authorities don't get wind of those benefits....they'll be snapping their hands off to get us to build there.....

 

[lordsummerisle]

Yes; like the one's who won't judge our club's owners for refusing to take up their option of buying into the club; and insisting on this farce of building anew (the net result which has been hugely to the detriment of CCFC); whilst saving the vast majority of their scorn for the council.....

The option of buying into the Stadium(not club) was refused by Higgs, though better than what has been offered now by Wasps.

You're a shameless stooge and shill.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Yes; like the one's who won't judge our club's owners for refusing to take up their option of buying into the club; and insisting on this farce of building anew (the net result which has been hugely to the detriment of CCFC); whilst saving the vast majority of their scorn for the council.....

Which ones are they then?

 

[Kingokings204]

Just read this whole thread and it was long. Now my pennies worth.

Sisu are the complete fault of ccfc and its demise. They are the owners and that's the top and bottom of it. They hold full responsibility of our club. They have failed us and badly.

The council had not much choice to sell and wasps have done what sisu couldn't in 7 years. I hate the fact wasps have got it and it seems the 100% is certain until confirmation but ccc and Higgs wanted out and wasps was their only card to play. Sisu have never wanted or do want the Ricoh unless it's free. They have had several opportunities to buy and not done so as its market rate.

Let's quote the judge" sisu have seriously mis manged the club and purchasing the Ricoh at a knock down price was the only plausible way to get back its investment" this sentence tells you everything about the last 7 years and a high court judge got it in a 3 day trial. He doesn't have a clue about us ccfc but he knows from the black and white evidence we have been shafted.

Sisu have seriously mis manged our football club. That's it. He said it. It's true. The evidence is black and white. We have a company who know nothing about football what should be expect. Ccc/Higgs wanted out and they got it and for a good deal for the Coventry taxpayer meaning they will always be justified by this action.

The council now will veto any attempt at sisu buying the other 50% I'm sure and the council aren't with out blame hear. Make no mistake but they have to look after Coventry citizens by law so I side with them yes over a greedy Caymen islands unknown hedge fund. People say ccc have a vendetta or whatever against ccfc but that's sisu for you. Created a massive untrust and if ccc have a vendetta I dont fucking blame them. These people are scum. They are hard nosed business people who look after number 1. Their investors. That's fair enough but number 1 isn't ccfc and that's a problem for me.

Sisu have claimed even back on the new rental deal that a new stadium is ready to go and will be built. Why keep saying this lie? I don't know. Maybe to not lose face or whatever it's irrelevant we ALL know a new stadium is bollocks and luckily I only know 1 fan a ST holder who funnily enough went to sixfields and ST this year but he is deluded as fuck and funnily enough he blames the council also even though he says he votes labour so he is unbiased. Ok mate. He says sisu aren't all to blame. Bless.

They are still the owners of our club and that's worrying. Tim has basically admitted we can't get promoted as this would harm the club which sickens me to my core and they have no ambition or knowledge and I assure you all league 2 is only a matter of time in the same way coming down to league 1 was. Within 5 years we will be playing league 2 football I'm certain of it. It's common sense. We have average players and when the average ones go we will have poor players and we will go down. More and more cuts and relegation will happen.

We are in trouble and we need fixing. I've lost my magic wand so for now we just hope but that's got us no where in 15 years of hoping. We are a badly run club still run badly. We can't go up as that will cripple us again. Pathetic.

All in all sisu hold all blame for me as they are owners and will take responsibility in my opinion. I hold them 100% accountable for the last 7 years and our status of a major almost all time low.

For the record I am not a council lover in any shape or form but I am a realist and see things at face value and nothing else. Sisu knew the deal when they signed up for the gig in 07 and if they didn't then no surprise and you get what you deserve. Manage like a bunch of pricks then you will get the results to back it up. Already proved.

I am so sorry for wasps fans and its wrong from our council. Sadly they didn't have a choice. When you don't have a choice you have to do the only option and stand by it. Is Ann Lucas proud to bring wasps to Coventry. Deep down away from the media I bet she fucking hates it but she done the best deal for Coventry and that's the only thing she can do.

I will always support the club and I love ccfc to death but we are still going down further in this spiral and the future looks very bleak.

Sorry for going on I know it's late. I felt it right to say my piece as a genuine fan and lover of ccfc. I will always hope.

 

[torchomatic]

Ann Lucas did.

Who was "claiming" on here that ACL was a viable business? My memory is that OSB analysed their last available set of books when they came out and the facts spoke for themselves. No claiming was required. The facts aren't in dispute. Well apart from Grendulls "accountant".

You could also (if you want to) take Mr Fishers words of wisdom "you don't sell at the bottom of the cycle" perhaps CCC took this on board and decided that ACL was at the top of the cycle.

Truth is no one on here will have any idea what state ACL is in at the point of sale until the relevant accounts become available to view. So it's not really a point anyone can use to form a factual argument at the moment.

The hypocrisy of the sale is undeniable. So I'm not going to deny it.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I've always really respected your opinions and your loyal support and contribution into CCFC. I have always been in total alliance with your views and understanding on the SISU situation too, who lets face it are highly culpable in all of this, however your obvious rapid support and acceptance of this immoral franchise due to your historical rugby affiliations is disappointing if not demoralising. We all know who is to blame for this shit but to turn turtle on the Coventry teams is traitorous to say the least !

You read me wrong. I have tried to explain, but I'll do so again in case you have missed anything.

Do I like Wasps being parachuted in? No - I posted so even again yesterday in response to Torchy. Will I go? No.

What is my main gripe? And I mean what really irks me? It's the the football club's opportunity with regards the Ricoh has been squandered not within this last week; but in SISU's refusal to take up the options for ownership on the table, and foolishness with regards a new stadium. That's the real crime.

Faced with that - as a businessman - I can see and understand the logic (not sentiment, logic) behind what the council have done.

I posted 18 months ago: what happens if SISU's gamble doesn't work, and another anchor tenant comes in, and our football club has been used as a casino chip in a game that goes terribly wrong? I was laughed out of court. Well, you know what, here we are; and those who scoffed it would never happen are now shape-shifting to a new positon because the possibility they refused to countenance has now happened. And the chance is now seemingly lost for 250 years.

That's my position old lad

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

The option of buying into the Stadium(not club) was refused by Higgs, though better than what has been offered now by Wasps.

You're a shameless stooge and shill.

Prove it. The former, not the latter

 

[skybluetony176]

So when you said The Ricoh was worth £60 million you were wumming for England?

Now I see you are wumming for Europe.

When you said no one would buy the Ricoh were you wumming for England on the opposite wing?

 

[skybluetony176]

Ann Lucas did.

AL has an account on here?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

AL has an account on here?

Would it surprise you if she did?

My money's on her being RFC btw.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

The option of buying into the Stadium(not club) was refused by Higgs, though better than what has been offered now by Wasps.

You're a shameless stooge and shill.

How was the offer you suggest better?

 

[dongonzalos]

So when you said The Ricoh was worth £60 million you were wumming for England?

Now I see you are wumming for Europe.

As I say those who struggle to argue with the point turn to wum comments.

The Ricoh cost 130 million to build. So 60 million for it would be a bargain.

 

[Grendel]

As I say those who struggle to argue with the point turn to wum comments.

The Ricoh cost 130 million to build. So 60 million for it would be a bargain.

The RICOH cost 130 million -- are you sure?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

How was the offer you suggest better?

It's okay; he's going to list the salient points of them both for us as I asked - I'm sure....

 

[olderskyblue]

All this nonsense about SISU offering more in % terms for ACL than Wasps have paid.

Well, I offered ACL £20.5million, and they turned me down flat (once they'd asked about my funding.... Apparently my insistence that YB would offer me a great deal on lending the money didn't excite them as much as I'd expected....)

 

[skybluetony176]

Would it surprise you if she did?

My money's on her being RFC btw.

No it wouldn't surprise me at all. I thought Grendull had ruled out RFC because they have a mutual friend who confirmed he's a genuine fan?

 

[Moff]

Would it surprise you if she did?

My money's on her being RFC btw.

I thought Ann Lucas posted on here as Sky Blue John or SBK

 

[olderskyblue]

No it wouldn't surprise me at all. I thought Grendull had ruled out RFC because they have a mutual friend who confirmed he's a genuine fan?

A fan of Leicester perhaps?

 

[dongonzalos]

The RICOH cost 130 million -- are you sure?

Typo 113 million
So yes 60 million would be a bargain

 

[Grendel]

Typo 113 million
So yes 60 million would be a bargain

For the stadium? Really? Are you sure?

How much did it cost the council?

 

[dongonzalos]

Coventry council tax payers will have to meet the £2.9m overspend costs of building the £113m Ricoh Arena. Most of the over budget costs were incurred in speeding up building work to meet a revised opening date. A meeting of the city council on Tuesday is set to approve using council reserves to pay the added costs.
Ricoh Arena overspend costs £2.9m - BBC News
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk.../5120826.stm

 

[Grendel]

Coventry council tax payers will have to meet the £2.9m overspend costs of building the £113m Ricoh Arena. Most of the over budget costs were incurred in speeding up building work to meet a revised opening date. A meeting of the city council on Tuesday is set to approve using council reserves to pay the added costs.
Ricoh Arena overspend costs £2.9m - BBC News
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk.../5120826.stm

So the Hotel, Casino etc cost more?

 

[dongonzalos]

The majeski is an inferior stadium that cost 50 million to build.
So yes I would say to pick up the Ricoh lock stick for £60 million would be a decent deal.