Coventry RFC's response http://www.coventryrfc.co.uk/board-statement-9th-october-2014
CCC have not done Coventry or it's residents any favours.
CCC have not done Coventry or it's residents any favours.
Nobodies Happy! (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter RFC
- Start date
D
Deleted member 4232
Guest
tl;dr? - CRFC butthurt that no one told them anything. Detailed NDI's were signed.
They need to stop beingso short sighted, get over it: start building a relationship with Wasps, it is going to do the club great!
They need to stop beingso short sighted, get over it: start building a relationship with Wasps, it is going to do the club great!
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
more egg on face for council lovers lol!
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Plenty on here who are absolutely fucking delighted.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
isn't the essence of the statement "we haven't been involved properly so far, we should have been involved and we think we should now be properly involved, its done and we want a partnership that works with Wasps"
the statement is .......
“Following the announcement of London Wasps Rugby Club acquiring ACL and using the Ricoh Arena as their permanent home, we feel it is appropriate to record the position of Coventry Rugby on this matter.
Whilst members of the board at Coventry Rugby have, at their instigation, tried to engage in discussion with both Coventry Council and London Wasps there has been very little substantial information forthcoming. We appreciate that there is an element of commercial sensitivity surrounding the negotiations but as the principal Rugby team in the City we believe that a formal consultation and agreement process should have been offered.
Over the last five years significant investment in both time and money has gone into the restoration of Coventry Rugby Club (including that of our sponsors and shareholders and the City Council). We feel that a significant opportunity exists to realise greater returns from this investment by the inclusion of Coventry Rugby Club in the ongoing discussions as an invitee. To date we have relied on media reports as our principal source of information.
We at Coventry Rugby Club are sufficiently pragmatic to understand that this potential deal will deliver a significant move forward for Coventry Council in what has been a very difficult situation surrounding ACL, The Ricoh Arena and all subsequent parties involved. However, in the interests of enhancing this move forward and entering into a positive collaboration with Wasps and the Council we have found it difficult to offer any credible input without formal engagement in the process.
The Board of Coventry Rugby have been placed in a somewhat difficult position, as a result of the media reports being unable to offer any solid information to our sponsors, shareholders or supporters, all of which are seeking reassurance that the proposed deal will be at best, good for Coventry Rugby Club or at least non-harmful.
We are very much interested to achieve a solution that delivers the optimum outcome for all parties, not least of which is the general good of the City, the electorate and particularly the youth programmes we are working so hard to provide.
Over the past few years we have worked closely with the Council to regenerate Coventry Rugby Club, to secure its tenure at Butts Park Arena and to provide a sporting facility of pride. We have worked hard to provide a high level of live sport in the city and have succeeded in doing so even while Coventry City FC were absent. We were previously assured by Coventry Council that any development in terms of other professional Rugby Clubs coming to the city would include ourselves early in the process.
Following the announcement of the Wasps deal we are committed to work together with them for the benefit of both Clubs our sponsors, supporters and players. We will be seeking early engagement with wasps to formulate a plan to make this happen.”
the statement is .......
“Following the announcement of London Wasps Rugby Club acquiring ACL and using the Ricoh Arena as their permanent home, we feel it is appropriate to record the position of Coventry Rugby on this matter.
Whilst members of the board at Coventry Rugby have, at their instigation, tried to engage in discussion with both Coventry Council and London Wasps there has been very little substantial information forthcoming. We appreciate that there is an element of commercial sensitivity surrounding the negotiations but as the principal Rugby team in the City we believe that a formal consultation and agreement process should have been offered.
Over the last five years significant investment in both time and money has gone into the restoration of Coventry Rugby Club (including that of our sponsors and shareholders and the City Council). We feel that a significant opportunity exists to realise greater returns from this investment by the inclusion of Coventry Rugby Club in the ongoing discussions as an invitee. To date we have relied on media reports as our principal source of information.
We at Coventry Rugby Club are sufficiently pragmatic to understand that this potential deal will deliver a significant move forward for Coventry Council in what has been a very difficult situation surrounding ACL, The Ricoh Arena and all subsequent parties involved. However, in the interests of enhancing this move forward and entering into a positive collaboration with Wasps and the Council we have found it difficult to offer any credible input without formal engagement in the process.
The Board of Coventry Rugby have been placed in a somewhat difficult position, as a result of the media reports being unable to offer any solid information to our sponsors, shareholders or supporters, all of which are seeking reassurance that the proposed deal will be at best, good for Coventry Rugby Club or at least non-harmful.
We are very much interested to achieve a solution that delivers the optimum outcome for all parties, not least of which is the general good of the City, the electorate and particularly the youth programmes we are working so hard to provide.
Over the past few years we have worked closely with the Council to regenerate Coventry Rugby Club, to secure its tenure at Butts Park Arena and to provide a sporting facility of pride. We have worked hard to provide a high level of live sport in the city and have succeeded in doing so even while Coventry City FC were absent. We were previously assured by Coventry Council that any development in terms of other professional Rugby Clubs coming to the city would include ourselves early in the process.
Following the announcement of the Wasps deal we are committed to work together with them for the benefit of both Clubs our sponsors, supporters and players. We will be seeking early engagement with wasps to formulate a plan to make this happen.”
ccfcmustang
New Member
How on eart is it going to benefit CRFC? I would love to see them getting higher attendances than Wasps. I will not support the relocation of any sporting team. How can we as CCFC supporters be that hypocritical to support the franchising of any club?
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
grow up
Not necessarily absolutely delighted to see CRFC in this position, but pleased that - even if the deal is not what we wanted - we are moving on. The stalemate is broken. Now is the time to get on with building relationships in order to get the best out of the deal we can - goes for CCFC and CRFC. Crying over spilt milk won't solve anything. Most of our problems were caused by people not getting on with each other, lying, cheating, slagging each other off etc. ( no names mentioned as all parties were at some time doing these things - apparently and in my opinion - ).
duffer
Well-Known Member
But apparently there wasn't a financial problem - ACL was profitable and sustainable, according to the council when they took on the loan. Or are you saying that CCC were lying?
As for a Judicial Review, I don't think you really understand how they work. There's no scope for a JR in the circumstances that you're talking about - to start off with where is the party injured by a council decision?
Funnily enough though, one of the central planks of SISU's argument in their JR was that the Council didn't pay fair value when taking over the mortgage (i.e. that CCC paid too much for it). Don't get me wrong, SISU didn't need to go for the JR, and didn't deserve to win it - but what's clear here is that the Council play fast and loose with the truth when it suits them.
Like it or not, the stadium is now more rather than less likely, and it's almost certain to be outside Coventry. Is that something to celebrate?
Quite easy really. If it turns out we come out of this winning, I am sure we ( at least a large portion of us ) will quietly ignore the fate of others - that is human nature, like it or not.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Other club's fans would be pissing themselves reading this board.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
I will never go to see Wasps even if they offered me a free ticket and a hotel room and all the lemonade I can drink as I can't stand rugby.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
So you will quietly ignore the fate of ccfc if turns out to be a good deal for your lot?
It isn't human nature at all, not everyone is a selfish as you.
There would be an injured party if Wasps bid had been rejected purely because CCFC May, at some indefinite future time come back to the Ricoh. I am not an expert on JR's. However I would think that Wasps would use similar arguments to SISU that to reject such an offer would not make commercial sense. The taxpayers may also be aggrieved. The judge said that it was likely that within the length of the lease, a new tenant/ purchaser would arrive when discussing the viability/ risk of the loan. To then reject an offer which takes the responsibility from CCC, based only on a mere possibility of CCFC coming home, especially when the chairman of CCFC constantly spouts on about the new stadium, would look very strange. I would be asking questions if that had happened.
if the stadium is almost certainly to be outside Coventry, then ask TF about that. As far he's concerned it will be 100% outside Coventry. My hope is that, one way or another, SISU end up having to a deal for the Ricoh. Hopefully with goodwill from Wasps. Far from slagging off Wasps, I would be trying to build a relationship and come up with ideas as to how all parties will profit.
duffer
Well-Known Member
The Council said they were going to consult CRFC prior to any decision to bring in another rugby team, and they didn't.
Even worse, one of their criteria for making the decision about Wasps was that it wouldn't hurt CRFC, but without that consultation there simply couldn't have established that that criteria would be fulfilled. Presumably they tooks Wasps owner's word for it.
Go support Wasps if you want, but in doing so you need to accept that you're supporting moving a franchise club away from its fans, and a decision by the council that sees CRFC doomed to remain in the lower reaches of rugby, and CCFC more likely to move away from the town.
It strikes me that the best route for CCFC fans to follow might well be the #NOPM one, but this time against Wasps. The faster the franchise fails, the more likely that CCFC might pick up the arena.
Err .... My lot is CCFC and yes a lot of people are selfish. That's why our species survives. Not moral, but look around you at your fellow humans. Turn on the tele, if you want to see selfish people exploiting others for their own benefit.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Tell me about it! Yesterday I was watching an old repeat of Jasper Carrot's Golden Balls.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
its only bad if sisu lie.......
BUT THEY SAID THEY GONNA BUILD OWN STADIUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lets ignore ACL saying ricoh is doing good business.....
Moff
Well-Known Member
How disrespectful of Coventry Rugby Club to have an opinion, as I thought the great intellect Ann Lucas spoke for them, and explained she had heard it would be good for them and Wasps could loan them some players.
No wait a minute she said that having never spoken to them, not knowing their opinion, and clearly not giving a flying f**k about a Club from the City that she claims to love, whilst cosying up to a nice new franchise team.
As Ann said 'today isnt about me'...if only she had realised that none of this was about her, the sad self centered egotist.
No wait a minute she said that having never spoken to them, not knowing their opinion, and clearly not giving a flying f**k about a Club from the City that she claims to love, whilst cosying up to a nice new franchise team.
As Ann said 'today isnt about me'...if only she had realised that none of this was about her, the sad self centered egotist.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Nick
Administrator
Same as some of the councillors saying they think it will be good for the city. None of them sound certain.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Well that's what I'm waiting to hear. They seem to believe it will be good for Coventry City and I would just like to know why.
One of my councillors promised to get back to me after the vote, but has not done so as yet.
Moff
Well-Known Member
Sorry I cant quite see the positive aspects you talk about, I would say the quotes below are rather negative, and they are not as happy as you make out.
They will now try to make the best of the situation, you know one that was forced on them by their own Council, and why not, as the alternative is to suffer at the hands of a franchise team parachuted in at the whim of the Council
"Whilst members of the board at Coventry Rugby have, at their instigation, tried to engage in discussion with both Coventry Council and London Wasps there has been very little substantial information forthcoming"
"as the principal Rugby team in the City we believe that a formal consultation and agreement process should have been offered."
"in the interests of enhancing this move forward and entering into a positive collaboration with Wasps and the Council we have found it difficult to offer any credible input without formal engagement in the process."
"The Board of Coventry Rugby have been placed in a somewhat difficult position, as a result of the media reports being unable to offer any solid information to our sponsors, shareholders or supporters, all of which are seeking reassurance that the proposed deal will be at best, good for Coventry Rugby Club or at least non-harmful."
"We were previously assured by Coventry Council that any development in terms of other professional Rugby Clubs coming to the city would include ourselves early in the process."
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
To be honest CCFC fans in the majority have not supported CRFC or WASPS ....... ever.
IMHO it is picking up on their issue to try and manipulate our issue.
The deal is done, get over it, it's not ideal but now we have to make sure all parties, particularly CCFC get something good out of this.
We need some positive statement from SISU in respect of tying us into the Ricoh, giving us some long term hope.
In fact Wasps management have given us a positive statement initially so take the olive branch Sisu and make us happy.
I don't care who owns the stadium as I know it will not be CCFC in my lifetime.
I just want to turn up every week and watch football in a world class stadium.
After all do Swansea or Ospreys fans really care on stadium ownership.
Lets take that model and move on.
IMHO it is picking up on their issue to try and manipulate our issue.
The deal is done, get over it, it's not ideal but now we have to make sure all parties, particularly CCFC get something good out of this.
We need some positive statement from SISU in respect of tying us into the Ricoh, giving us some long term hope.
In fact Wasps management have given us a positive statement initially so take the olive branch Sisu and make us happy.
I don't care who owns the stadium as I know it will not be CCFC in my lifetime.
I just want to turn up every week and watch football in a world class stadium.
After all do Swansea or Ospreys fans really care on stadium ownership.
Lets take that model and move on.
Moff
Well-Known Member
Yes they do, as they get full revenues and were not ripped off by their local council. It would be nice if we had ever been offered that model, as we would have moved on.
WE WERE NOT OFFERED THAT MODEL.
And as for getting over it, I abhor franchise teams, clearly you dont, and wont mind if SISU move the club out of the city again.
duffer
Well-Known Member
I don't think there's much scope for claiming injury because the council refused to sell to Wasps. The council made their case against SISU on the basis of ACL being profitable and sustainable, on that basis is there no obligation on them to sell. Similarly, they could've argued that the benefit to the city of Wasps coming in is unclear (it is), or that there might be damage to one or more of the City's local teams (there may). SISU's JR is on a specific point of law, state aid - it's hard to see a similar point of law that Wasps could hang their hat on. The council are free to sell or not sell their assets as they see fit, generally - if they do decide to sell their duty is to obtain the most they can for them.
How can SISU now do a deal for the Ricoh? They need access, as do Wasps, to the 24/7/365 revenue from the Ricoh. Wasps have bought it, SISU haven't. CCFC will only ever be tenants now at the Ricoh - most seem to think that that isn't sustainable. Fisher's line is that it works for now in L1 but not above that level. What deal could Wasps offer that could change that?
Personally, and this is just me, I'll never support Wasps at the Ricoh. It would be supporting the immorality of franchising, and the damage (or at best restriction of ambition) to both Coventry teams that is now inevitable. My sincere hope is that the franchise goes bust, it deserves no better imho.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Just a question.
Would Rugby fans not support CRFC one week and then go to Wasps the next week?
They don't compete against each other at the moment.
Just get the impression that Rugby fans are not so tribal as football fans. Probably based on all fans sitting together.
Just an impression ?
Would Rugby fans not support CRFC one week and then go to Wasps the next week?
They don't compete against each other at the moment.
Just get the impression that Rugby fans are not so tribal as football fans. Probably based on all fans sitting together.
Just an impression ?
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
What happens if we get offered full revenues ?
Moff
Well-Known Member
I will fall over in shock.
Good question though, and personally would be a huge conflict of feelings. I hate the franchise issue, but when the dust settles IF and its a big if, Wasps worked in tandem with Coventry Rugby Club, and it worked as a successful business model, and CCFC got the revenues they desire, and opted to stay put, then I may have to reassess my opinions.
I will be happy to look at that issue if it happens, sadly though looking at the previous recent and current history of CCFC, I am not hopeful it will
duffer
Well-Known Member
How can that possibly happen? Wasps have them now, and presumably they need them for their business. Wasps primary requirement from CCFC is that they pay the rent.
If CCFC are successful, I can see there's likely to be more money coming in through the doors of the arena on matchdays, but that's money that CCFC say that they need - certainly both clubs can't have it. I am honestly struggling to see how CCFC benefit in any way from this move. How can there be a partnership here that can really benefit both sides, when in essence they're in competition for the same income streams to survive?
Edit: And I still wouldn't support Wasps regardless - it's a franchise operation and taking clubs away from their fans should never be supported.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Most people say it's not sustainable, yet don't know yet what Wasps are even going to be offering. Fisher said it wasn't sustainable before Wasps had even approached the club. Still a lot of conjecture and conclusion jumping going on, duffer. I await with baited breath to Sisu's response to Wasps' approach.
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Sky Blue Dal
Well-Known Member
If they are not happy why did there fans not protest outside the CCC.
Remind me how many CovRU fans came to protest on Tuesday.
What really annoys me about this is the Rugby fans are pretty docile bunch when it comes to airing there views and only do it after the damage has been done.
Like I said before.. where are the Wasp protestors??? it's no point airing your disappointment on fans forum if they can't be bothered to get of there arse and march on the streets. If they did that many of the CCFC fans would join them.
Problem with Rugby fans are they are not very vocal.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Did 4 or 5 protestors go to Sixfields on the day our move was announced?