Are People really Bleating? (12 Viewers)

[lordsummerisle]

You missed the bit about only being prepared to pay £5M for the £14M loan, which YB thought was not acceptable, they were right in the end.

No way this deal would have got past YB.. just no way, you are living in cloud cuckoo land..

Who knows what they may have negotiated with YB, or what they were, in reality, prepared to offer?

None of us now.

 

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[Jack Griffin]

Who knows what they may have negotiated with YB, or what they were, in reality, prepared to offer?

None of us now.

try looking at what the Judge said about it.. I'm sure he had a view..

Anyway, all history.. can't be changed..

 

[fernandopartridge]

As I said earlier, the proposal from Sisu to buy out the loan may not have panned out as they wanted and so the deal may not have gone ahead.

The fact that the Council went and did their own seperate deal for the ACL loan from YB means that we will never know though now, but as was stated in bold above, any deal for the Higgs shares was a non-starter from the beginning as "they knew the Council was not prepared to consent to the sale of the shares to SISU".

You'll go blue in the face. People only see what they want to see.

 

[James Smith]

Far more so than our owners I am afraid yes.
I can't see that the council have done anything wrong.

The council are wrong to have accepted Wasps as amongst other things it makes them into hypocrites and encourages franchise sport. We didn't like being moved 35miles and I can't believe that the Wasps fans are keen on a longer round trip.

Franchise sport is wrong.

 

[Hobo]

As I said earlier, the proposal from Sisu to buy out the loan may not have panned out as they wanted and so the deal may not have gone ahead.

The fact that the Council went and did their own seperate deal for the ACL loan from YB means that we will never know though now, but as was stated in bold above, any deal for the Higgs shares was a non-starter from the beginning as "they knew the Council was not prepared to consent to the sale of the shares to SISU".

Was this pre or post Joy spouting about the need for the sale of the freehold?

I suspect where it falls down is SISU buying out the loan and controlling the mortgage.
The other major difference is they were buying the Higgs share only and not ACLs like Wasps.
it also says negotiations were ceased by mutual consent...as a result of a 'number' of irreconcilable differences.

I would suggest a number of differences was SISU consistently moving the goal posts (not from me but suggested to me by someone in the room so to speak). Obviously I can't say for certain.

Yes the council did not consent to the deal, but that doesn't mean a future revised bid would not have been accepted.

I say this because Fisher had a rent deal pulled by Joy....but months later Waggott went back and got a very similar deal home.

it is a frustrating mess basically

 

[lordsummerisle]

Was this pre or post Joy spouting about the need for the sale of the freehold?

I suspect where it falls down is SISU buying out the loan and controlling the mortgage.
The other major difference is they were buying the Higgs share only and not ACLs like Wasps.
it also says negotiations were ceased by mutual consent...as a result of a 'number' of irreconcilable differences.

I would suggest a number of differences was SISU consistently moving the goal posts (not from me but suggested to me by someone in the room so to speak). Obviously I can't say for certain.

Yes the council did not consent to the deal, but that doesn't mean a future revised bid would not have been accepted.

I say this because Fisher had a rent deal pulled by Joy....but months later Waggott went back and got a very similar deal home.

it is a frustrating mess basically

This was pre talk about the Freehold.

Don't see where Sisu buying out the loan and controlling the mortgage and Wasps now buying the loan and(soon I'd imagine) having 100% of ACL is any different though really.


Agree it's all a frustrating mess.

 

[dongonzalos]

The council are wrong to have accepted Wasps as amongst other things it makes them into hypocrites and encourages franchise sport. We didn't like being moved 35miles and I can't believe that the Wasps fans are keen on a longer round trip.

Franchise sport is wrong.

I don't agree with franchise sport.

Unfortunately that explanational wouldn't cut it. If in 4 years time the city lost out on 10's of millions because the they said no to Wasps.

It's the RFU who should be blocking this.

The council has a responsibility to its electorate not the morals of rugby.

As I said our move was SISU's and the football leagues fault not Northampton's

 

[wingy]

Are we now seeing the true reason for the rejection of the CVA?

Is that why tim was so frustrated when he was saying all but for £200K.

The option +£6M. settlement on the lease.

 

[Grendel]

I don't agree with franchise sport.

Unfortunately that explanational wouldn't cut it. If in 4 years time the city lost out on 10's of millions because the they said no to Wasps.

It's the RFU who should be blocking this.

The council has a responsibility to its electorate not the morals of rugby.

As I said our move was SISU's and the football leagues fault not Northampton's

How would the city lose tens of millions - please explain.

 

[dongonzalos]

How would the city lose tens of millions - please explain.

If SISU go ahead with their threat and move CCFC out of Coventry again that money added to the revenue, jobs and regeneration brought into the city from wasps missing. Over the next 10-20 years.

You grendel would be the first in the queue slaughtering the council for their naivety when SISU kept telling them what they were planning. ( not that you will admit)

 

[torchomatic]

But Lucas said that ACLs future was "bright".

If SISU go ahead with their threat and move CCFC out of Coventry again that money added to the revenue, jobs and regeneration brought into the city from wasps missing. Over the next 10-20 years.

You grendel would be the first in the queue slaughtering the council for their naivety when SISU kept telling them what they were planning. ( not that you will admit)

 

[covcity4life]

But Lucas said that ACLs future was "bright".

shhhhhhhhhhhhh

we must ignore that because we love the council we do!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[shy_tall_knight]

SISU don't seem to be bleating and have accepted it with good grace

 

[torchomatic]

And a lot of people on here have to. Remarkable really as many have spent the last year busting a blood vessel or ten over CCFC being franchised.

SISU don't seem to be bleating and have accepted it with good grace

 

[Grendel]

If SISU go ahead with their threat and move CCFC out of Coventry again that money added to the revenue, jobs and regeneration brought into the city from wasps missing. Over the next 10-20 years.

You grendel would be the first in the queue slaughtering the council for their naivety when SISU kept telling them what they were planning. ( not that you will admit)

Ah so the tens of millions has no basis of fact then? Just another made up figure from nowhere?

Wasps have a good track record of keeping promises - like the commitment to build a stadium in the London area.

Another example of wumming I'm afraid.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

CCFC were never franchised, they were moved out temporarily to distress ACL and embarrass the council into submission and like all of SISU's plans we know how that turned out. I do get the feeling a lot on here expected the council to gift the stadium to the club, political suicide to9 do so never was going to happen reasonable commercial negotiations were never going to happen either

 

[dongonzalos]

The "point" by the way is to emphasise the glib way you quote ideas as facts and often get your facts wrong.

The deal is to buy the actual stadium according to your Great Leader so the extra elements do not count.
Its worth £60 million as the Reading stadium costs £50 million and its better (well no - you say it is) and again the build costs include conference centres and hotels. Also let us not even mention the fact that it won an award as the best mid size stadium in Europe
On this thread you mention the several games Wasps played at the Ricoh - its one
You berate franchise football but actively support this move
You glibly say that the Rugby Club and Wasps fans are not objective when every forum and public statement contradicts you

When you talk about football matters (rare I know) its usually a thread created to start an argument with an absurd statement

All the Thorn rubbish
Threads such as Chris Hussey and Kevin Malaga should be given a chance and they are great prospects
Moving Nuneaton to the Ricoh

All nonsense, all wumming and all utterly pointless

We could play this game all day' the take it away from the point at hand' game

Your stance that playing at the Ricoh has no influence of players at all when it comes to signing for CCFC.
Then the manager and players and Mr Waggot himself admitted that it did.

Your protest against our move to Sixfields by not attending before then attending.

Your stance that no one else would ever buy ACL

Your stance that no other sporting team would want to play in the Ricoh it will be a white elephant.

You stance that no one else would want to buy CCFC

Your stance that AB and MR are good managers........

Your stance that letting the Juke go for less than a million when in the relegation spots didn't help us get relegated.

Your stance that letting players go and signing inferior freebies didn't lead to relegation. It was all the mangers fault.

Your encouragement that the club shouldn't sign the agreed rent deal back in the day and they should push for more ( great that worked out splendidly)

Your wholesale agreement with our owners tactics. Saying that their hardball tactics would benefit the club and you will support anything that benefits the club over anything else. That we will all see in the end the tactics would be right.

Fantastic they led to Wasps buying ACL (yet despite this I have failed to hear you say fair comment I was wrong SISU's tactics were wrong)

There are too many mention that 5 minutes off the top of my head.

Anyway back on track.

Why were wasps able to do what SISU didn't. Without any fuss
Why do wasps see ACL as worth buying?

 

[torchomatic]

Last year Richardson said he wanted to move Wasps to West London as it was their "natural home".

Ah so the tens of millions has no basis of fact then? Just another made up figure from nowhere?

Wasps have a good track record of keeping promises - like the commitment to build a stadium in the London area.

Another example of wumming I'm afraid.

 

[Hobo]

This was pre talk about the Freehold.

Don't see where Sisu buying out the loan and controlling the mortgage and Wasps now buying the loan and(soon I'd imagine) having 100% of ACL is any different though really.


Agree it's all a frustrating mess.

I would think ACL still responsible for a loan SISU had control of could lead to mistrust? I accept that is a two way street. There is the other CCC statement of SISU offering no plan of how they were going to try and develop the area and the council have always seen that as an integral part of the Ricoh development.

If this deal was pre Joy talking about the freehold why did that suddenly become so important to her. Is it not a case of their continual shifting stance...making the negotiations protracted if not impossible?

I can't believe SISU have just decided theat CCC won't deal with them. People bang heads in business all the time. They got back in the Ricoh after all. I think it is more to do with finances, either none available or that haven't been able to distress it low enough. Or they have a different plan?

 

[torchomatic]

Because hell wouldn't freeze over before they ripped a club from it's community?

Why were wasps able to do what SISU didn't. Without any fuss
Why do wasps see ACL as worth buying?

 

[James Smith]

I don't agree with franchise sport.

Unfortunately that explanational wouldn't cut it. If in 4 years time the city lost out on 10's of millions because the they said no to Wasps.

It's the RFU who should be blocking this.

The council has a responsibility to its electorate not the morals of rugby.

As I said our move was SISU's and the football leagues fault not Northampton's

Cardoza didn't have to take our money and open the doors of Sixfields. We approached them after being turned down elsewhere. Wasps approached the council. ...

 

[martcov]

But Lucas said that ACLs future was "bright".

Wasps seem to agree on that point.

 

[torchomatic]

Every line you've written in this thread seems to scream "I agree with franchise sport!!!"

I don't agree with franchise sport.

 

[dongonzalos]

Cardoza didn't have to take our money and open the doors of Sixfields. We approached them after being turned down elsewhere. Wasps approached the council. ...

James take your Cov City fan glasses off for a minute.

CCC look at the wasps proposal as they are duty bound to.

Wasps are eventually aiming for around 20,000 fans in the stadium (eventually)

The current anchor tenant is adamant it is moving out in 4-5 years time. It is moving a sporting team out of the Coventry City Council Catchment area.

A local charity who helped out in the past say they do not want to run the Ricoh it was never meant to be long term. They want some money back out of it that they can use to regenerate the city and help Children in poverty.

ACL it seems either break even or make profit out of concerts or conferences.

The Council have a goal to get the area further developed but can't afford to do it. They believe rightly or wrongly whoever buys ACL should do this.

Most on here have stated no other sporting team would want to move to the Ricoh or buy ACL.

The proposal suggests that millions will be brought into the Coventry Economy, jobs will be created and development will take place.
These are the hard fast duties if any council create jobs, bring money into the economy and develop the area.

You rightly say a rugby club should not be Franchised I agree.

However do you think the majority of the Coventry electorate would also agree with your stance. When they are presented with an estimated figure of how much money the council turned down ( it will run into tens of millions) and an opportunity to create jobs on the basis of a rugby club should not be franchised.

Wasps then go else where SISU move out the council get slaughtered for not doing their job and neglect if duty.

The RFU should do the same as the FL ban franchising

 

[torchomatic]

And the "local charity" is going to lose out on the deal so will be able to help less "children in poverty".

I know you're trying desperately to make this into a "good" thing, but it's wrong on so many levels.

 

[dongonzalos]

Ah so the tens of millions has no basis of fact then? Just another made up figure from nowhere?

Wasps have a good track record of keeping promises - like the commitment to build a stadium in the London area.

Another example of wumming I'm afraid.

Please in your expert view on all things, full stop. Tell me how much does bringing wasps to Coventry contribute to the Coventry economy over 20 years. In terms of job creation, development and people spending money in the area?
Then add that to the money returned to the council to spend on the tax payer.
Add that to the money returned to the charity to be used in the area.
Then compare that to the losses caused by CCFC moving out of the Coventry Region.

 

[Nick]

How many jobs will wasps moving here create?

 

[lordsummerisle]

How many jobs will wasps moving here create?

Picnic Basket makers?

 

[dongonzalos]

How many jobs will wasps moving here create?

If they achieve their eventual target of 20000 fans then jobs will be created.
Also they are talking about building training facilities people have to build it and run it.

Jobs will be created of course it is impossible for me to say how many but they will.

Just like I would hazard a guess jobs would be list here and jobs created in another area when CCFC move

 

[Grendel]

If they achieve their eventual target of 20000 fans then jobs will be created.
Also they are talking about building training facilities people have to build it and run it.

Jobs will be created of course it is impossible for me to say how many but they will.

Just like I would hazard a guess jobs would be list here and jobs created in another area when CCFC move

If, if, if. More ifs.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

What do you expect from a Cov fan that is how we have been brought up.

If only we had???

If, if, if. More ifs.

 

[dongonzalos]

What do you expect from a Cov fan that is how we have been brought up.

If only we had???

To be fair that's more WTF?

 

[dongonzalos]

Picnic Basket makers?

If say a some pubs in the city will make a fortune from certain people drowning their sorrows. Gutted that the only thing they can blame on the council in this mess is that 8000 wasps fans get shafted. Even that is only partly the councils fault at a push

 

[Rusty Trombone]

That's nonsense - a 250 year lease is as good as any freehold. Explain what you don't get from a 250 year lease that you do with freehold.

The ability to do anything you want without the permission of the freeholder unless permission has already been granted in the lease.

 

[dongonzalos]

If, if, if. More ifs.

I agree if I can't tell you the exact figure of jobs that will be created and money that will be brought in. Then I shouldn't be allowed to mention it.