Are People really Bleating? (29 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

So its a low risk strategy as they collect rent from CCFC ? Are you serious? That rent will form a fraction of the turnover that the company will need to make this work.

They have no established fan base and no experience of running a management company. No redevelopment history either

The owner has a history of making promises he does not always fulfill and the company has lost significant money in the last 3 years.

Where is the money coming from to achieve all these redevelopment costs? Loans against the stadium,equity release or other borrowings?

But you are right - none of these factors matter - just what sisu do next.

One question. Why would they need to have experience in development when they have a 250 year lease? Surely all they have to do is attract someone with the experience to do it by selling them a 99 year lease on said plot? Depending on how many plots they can split available development land into what do you think the chances of them getting their initial investment back in a relatively short time are. High I would say.

 

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[skybluetony176]

Over 125 years rather than 250 should surely mean that Wasps should offer at least twice as much as Sisu.

Ergo, the Sisu offer was better.

The wasps offer was genuine and done in the right manner to be completed. SISU's was none of those things.


Ergo, wasps offer was better commercially. Hence it's happened.

 

[lordsummerisle]

The wasps offer was genuine and done in the right manner to be completed. SISU's was none of those things.


Ergo, wasps offer was better commercially. Hence it's happened.

The Council would not accept an offer for Higgs from Sisu, hence it didn't happen.

Been made pretty clear that was the case several times.

Are you turning into Astute?

 

[rupert_bear]

The Council would not accept an offer for Higgs from Sisu, hence it didn't happen.

Been made pretty clear that was the case several times.

Are you turning into Astute?

Do you think we will win today ?

 

[dongonzalos]

Do you think we will win today ?

Is Noble fit?

 

[stupot07]

Is Noble fit?

Don't think so, I heard Webster, Johnson, Burge are out too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[lordsummerisle]

Do you think we will win today ?

Not sure to be honest, Bath been in very good form lately, and always a difficult game.

 

[skybluetony176]

The Council would not accept an offer for Higgs from Sisu, hence it didn't happen.

Been made pretty clear that was the case several times.

Are you turning into Astute?

Tell me, had this apparent fact happen before or after the rent strike began?

 

[lordsummerisle]

Tell me, had this apparent fact happen before or after the rent strike began?

It's not an apparent fact, it''s a fact.

Negotiations were going on during the rent strike.

 

[Rusty Trombone]

Over 125 years rather than 250 should surely mean that Wasps should offer at least twice as much as Sisu.

Ergo, the Sisu offer was better.

Once the lease is longer than the stadium will likely exist, or would need major repairs and upkeep, then the actual term is largely irrelevant, they may just as well give a 999 year lease. The lease wouldn't be worth any more for a million years than it would for 125 years.

So have another go at explaining why SISU's offer was better.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Once the lease is longer than the stadium will likely exist, or would need major repairs and upkeep, then the actual term is largely irrelevant, they may just as well give a 999 year lease. The lease wouldn't be worth any more for a million years than it would for 125 years.

So have another go at explaining why SISU's offer was better.

I'll turn it around, as I've shown why it is til I'm blue(or maybe yellow and black) in the face.

Just answer this for me.

Why is the apparent deal, from Wasps better than what Sisu offered.

Would it have made much difference what(reasonably sensible, from both sides) offer that Sisu made if the Council would not sell, or allow Higgs to see to them?

 

[Rusty Trombone]

I'll turn it around, as I've shown why it is til I'm blue(or maybe yellow and black) in the face.

Just answer this for me.

Why is the apparent deal, from Wasps better than what Sisu offered.

Would it have made much difference what(reasonably sensible, from both sides) offer that Sisu made if the Council would not sell, or allow Higgs to see to them?

You've not shown it at all.

As I understand it the offer was either £2m, which is less than the current reported offer, or £5.5m which was made up of £1.5m upfront, and the rest over 10 years with no security offered, and this was dependant on getting the bank to agree to take a unrealistic discount on the loan.

So, in summary £2m is less than £2.77m. The second example was never going to become an offer due to the loan, but even so £1.5m with a SISU promise of getting £4m later with no security is no better either.

If you know of a better offer I would enjoy reading about it.

 

[Astute]

The Council would not accept an offer for Higgs from Sisu, hence it didn't happen.

Been made pretty clear that was the case several times.

Are you turning into Astute?

More wrong 'facts' I see.

CCC didn't stop any offers for the Higgs share. They didn't either offer what Higgs saw as enough or wouldn't pay unless it was over 10 years....and wouldn't give proof of funds. But lets not have the truth get in the way of one of your 'facts'

 

[Astute]

You've not shown it at all.

As I understand it the offer was either £2m, which is less than the current reported offer, or £5.5m which was made up of £1.5m upfront, and the rest over 10 years with no security offered, and this was dependant on getting the bank to agree to take a unrealistic discount on the loan.

So, in summary £2m is less than £2.77m. The second example was never going to become an offer due to the loan, but even so £1.5m with a SISU promise of getting £4m later with no security is no better either.

If you know of a better offer I would enjoy reading about it.

Beat me to it

 

[lordsummerisle]

More wrong 'facts' I see.

CCC didn't stop any offers for the Higgs share. They didn't either offer what Higgs saw as enough or wouldn't pay unless it was over 10 years....and wouldn't give proof of funds. But lets not have the truth get in the way of one of your 'facts'

You're a fucking idiot

"Leggatt J found (at [31]) that the Trustees did not wish to pursue the negotiations further, because they knew the Council was not prepared to consent to the sale of the shares to SISU, and was pursuing an alternative strategy which they (the Trustees) supported

I know it's a phrase you like to use, but going to use it anyway.

"Those are the words of a High Court Judge"

Even before the rent strike they weren't willing to sell their stake to Sisu, or to anybody else according to John Mutton.

Councillor Mutton was asked if the council would sell to another buyer and he replied, “Not at the moment, no.

He went on to explain, “We haven’t taken any dividends out of it even though it is making a profit each year because the ACL board had to take out a loan of £21million to pay the council back what we put in over and above our investment stake.
“So we haven’t taken dividends to enable them to get their debt to the bank down and I don’t see why we would want to sell knowing that at some stage there will be dividends coming out of it that we can use to pay for front line services without having to increase the level of council tax for the people of Coventry.

"They are the ones who invested the money, or we did it on their behalf, in the first place so they should benefit from it. So why would we take all the risks we did take when we built it and then sell it off to someone else to enjoy the profits? So it is most unlikely and I would certainly have no intention, at the present time, of even considering it.”


Read more at http://www.football.co.uk/coventry_...oh_arena_rss1904942.shtml#DDOemrmA68Puh9PA.99

The bold bit is another interesting point, the answer to his own question appears to be:

"When it's Wasps".

 

[Astute]

You're a fucking idiot



I know it's a phrase you like to use, but going to use it anyway.

"Those are the words of a High Court Judge"

Even before the rent strike they weren't willing to sell their stake to Sisu, or to anybody else according to John Mutton.



The bold bit is another interesting point, the answer to his own question appears to be:

"When it's Wasps".

You are the fucking idiot that either is trying to stick up for SISU or use things as a stick to beat CCC. Yes they are a bunch of cunts for letting theeir share go to Wasps. But SISU are as bad as everyone knows and therte is no need to try and make them look better. We all know the reasons that SISU never took over the Higgs share. And it was nothing to do with CCC.

Did CCC ever veto a move by SISU to take over the Higgs share like you have said? 100% no.

Do you like to copy and paste bits whilst leaving out the parts that show the truth? Yes.

 

[Nick]

You are the fucking idiot that either is trying to stick up for SISU or use things as a stick to beat CCC. Yes they are a bunch of cunts for letting theeir share go to Wasps. But SISU are as bad as everyone knows and therte is no need to try and make them look better. We all know the reasons that SISU never took over the Higgs share. And it was nothing to do with CCC.

Did CCC ever veto a move by SISU to take over the Higgs share like you have said? 100% no.

Do you like to copy and paste bits whilst leaving out the parts that show the truth? Yes.

Nobody has said sisu are good,some just fail to be able to stomach that the council may be in the wrong for something.

Just by saying the council do something bad, it isn't saying that sisu are good. Some people struggle with that.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Just by saying the council do something bad, it isn't saying that sisu are good. Some people struggle with that.

I hate bananas, therefore I love me some turnips.

 

[torchomatic]

But the bananas had no choice. I mean, would you want to deal with the turnips after the history between them. That's why they had no choice but to deal with the courgettes. They had to get the best deal for all the vegetables (ahem...) in the garden.

I hate bananas, therefore I love me some turnips.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Did CCC ever veto a move by SISU to take over the Higgs share like you have said? 100% no.

.

Do you ever read anything that is actually posted you cretin?

"Leggatt J found (at [31]) that the Trustees did not wish to pursue the negotiations further, because they knew the Council was not prepared to consent to the sale of the shares to SISU

Fucking hell.

 

[Astute]

Nobody has said sisu are good,some just fail to be able to stomach that the council may be in the wrong for something.

Just by saying the council do something bad, it isn't saying that sisu are good. Some people struggle with that.

I don't struggle with the matter.

I do struggle with the matter of someone calling me a fucking idiot because they have said about using a veto when CCC were even trying to broker the deal that this all comes back to. After all this is what the road map was all about. And SISU just pissed everyone off with their lack of negotiation skills. And look where it has led to.

They are all a bunch of w@nkers, but one lot of them have caused the most of this. Higgs are the least worse. CCC should have thought of the future of our club. SISU have taken the piss out of us, our club and anyone with anything to do with it.

Simple.

 

[Astute]

Do you ever read anything that is actually posted you cretin?



Fucking hell.

So Higgs have said they didn't pursue negotiations further as they wouldn't consent?

How much did SISU take the piss before this? How much did they offer for what? And if you remember by this stage it was all about the freehold. This happened after the road map......suggested by SISU........collapsed. And yes CCC would not let the freehold go.....just like they have not now.

 

[lordsummerisle]

So Higgs have said they didn't pursue negotiations further as they wouldn't consent?

How much did SISU take the piss before this? How much did they offer for what? And if you remember by this stage it was all about the freehold. This happened after the road map......suggested by SISU........collapsed. And yes CCC would not let the freehold go.....just like they have not now.

It was not about the fucking freehold!

Moron.

 

[Travs]

I wonder if comments such as 'the council had no choice' would be so rife if it was another football team that had been bought into the Ricoh, and not a rugby team....

 

[Astute]

It was not about the fucking freehold!

Moron.

So would you like to tell us when it became about the freehold? I know I am right.

Oh yes do your normal and insult anyone when they are right and you are wrong. Me a moron? Try looking in the mirror.

 

[Astute]

I wonder if comments such as 'the council had no choice' would be so rife if it was another football team that had been bought into the Ricoh, and not a rugby team....

CCC had lots of choices. And IMHO they took the wrong one. But most of those calling them everything they can think of were going on about the white elephant that SISU were still threatening to make the arena by moving our club out as Fisher said only a couple of days after moving us back. Maybe they sold it to stop wasting time and money on litigation.

Yes CCC were wrong, but at least it will stop the shitfest between them.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I know I am right.

You surprise me...

 

[lordsummerisle]

So would you like to tell us when it became about the freehold? I know I am right.

Oh yes do your normal and insult anyone when they are right and you are wrong. Me a moron? Try looking in the mirror.

Not until about a year after the Higgs talks did she discuss Freehold.

I'm not insulting you because I'm wrong, I'm not even insulting you.

You are a moron.

 

[pete212]

What do SISU do from here ?
Their strategy was to get the Ricoh 'on the cheap'.
Now someone else has bought it and bombed their strategy out of the water.

These hedge-fund banker wankers have failed, and for that 'heads must roll' !

Over to you SISU

 

[skybluetony176]

It's not an apparent fact, it''s a fact.

Negotiations were going on during the rent strike.

The only fact is that it was opinion. That opinion wasn't necessarily a fact. Hence, apparent fact. Anyway.

And you don't think the rent strike had anything to do with it?

Take CCFC out of the equation for a moment and look at the basics. If you were a partner in a business and your business partner was negotiating the sale of their half and the people that they were negotiating with started applying dirty tricks to drive the value of that business down is that someone you would want as a business partner? If you had the power to veto would you have used it?

One fact that did come out in the JR is that SISU attempted to distress ACL. It was a dirty trick and back fired spectacularly at the cost of our club. Our club is still feeling the repercussions of that today and will until SISU have gone. Yes selling to wasps was wrong on every level but SISU played their part in that.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Now naturally it didn't help, but naturally it wasn't in isolation, and there is certainly an argument to be made that certain refusals to discuss provoke drastic actions. Black and white? Never, always shades of grey, always.

Now, fine, SISU are evil, but to use as stock answer 'aha, but SISU are evil!' to everything is a bit crazy really. Ann Lucas could shoot the pope, and we'd still have the response that SISU were evil, witheld the rent, and wanted the freehold!

 

[Nick]

Now naturally it didn't help, but naturally it wasn't in isolation, and there is certainly an argument to be made that certain refusals to discuss provoke drastic actions. Black and white? Never, always shades of grey, always.

Now, fine, SISU are evil, but to use as stock answer 'aha, but SISU are evil!' to everything is a bit crazy really. Ann Lucas could shoot the pope, and we'd still have the response that SISU were evil, witheld the rent, and wanted the freehold!

Don't tell those people protesting to keep the 50m pool open that it is SISU's fault for withholding the rent

 

[lordsummerisle]

Don't tell those people protesting to keep the 50m pool open that it is SISU's fault for withholding the rent

Aye, they'll go off the deep end.

 

[Astute]

Now naturally it didn't help, but naturally it wasn't in isolation, and there is certainly an argument to be made that certain refusals to discuss provoke drastic actions. Black and white? Never, always shades of grey, always.

Now, fine, SISU are evil, but to use as stock answer 'aha, but SISU are evil!' to everything is a bit crazy really. Ann Lucas could shoot the pope, and we'd still have the response that SISU were evil, witheld the rent, and wanted the freehold!

So who used the line that SISU are evil? I certainly didn't. Just ask Lord as he knows more than anyone.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But do you like bananas?