Delusion? (13 Viewers)

[bigfatronssba]

Deluded doesn't even get close.

So closing the door on ownership of the Ricoh is a good thing for the football club because the people who own it will probably be nice and friendly for a couple of years?

Jeez. The fact they will 'respect' CCFC in the short term is of little or no consolation, and of course they will want to keep the gullible onside - these are the people who'll be buying drinks and paying £10 to park every other week. They make money from us - of course they're going to be nice, it doesn't escape the undeniable fact that the club is condemned to a future where it has to survive on less income than clubs who get fewer people through the gates.

So can you explain to me why Wasps will want to do anything hostile to the football club?

Also Wasps owning the Ricoh has made no difference whatsoever to the clubs income streams.

 

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[dongonzalos]

Nailed it.

Wasps said they wanted to come
CCFC said they want to go.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

I really hope that isn't aimed at me, considering the amount of support I have shown to yourself in the past..


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As I've said already, this is prompted by posts on here - it's not about individuals - and another person within this thread has made a relevant point on chants at games too.

 

[dongonzalos]

Very much so. The rent boycott, the Sixfields move, the delayed liquidation of CCFC Ltd, all done to help SISU get the Ricoh cheap. CCC offer it cheap to them then the plan has worked and on they go. Then with the Ricoh secured they can sell the club for far more than they would get for a crap League 1 team alone and wipe their hands of the business.

That was the point all along.

I still don't believe you would bet your hard earn money on them doing a straight forward deal like wasps did.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

As I've said already, this is prompted by posts on here - it's not about individuals - and another person within this thread has made a relevant point on chants at games too.

Okay, but some fans believe that the certain approach you're referring to solves nothing, again no one would be sad to see the back of our current owners, but by shouting a few words and showing no support to the players pitch, at a point where Sisu could probably give two hoots about it, solves nothing.


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[stupot07]

It's just a fact its a deal worth around 20 million to say otherwise is ignoring 12 million.

I know it is different to a house but when you pay 30 ground deposit for a 200 grand house and people say what did you pay for your house would you say 30 grand.

Certainly sounds like a bargain SISU would agree when said 5.5 million for all of ACL

Sorry don it's spin

The £14m is ACL ltd's liability and built into their operating costs. Nothing to do with wasps holdings ltd, they won't pay a penny of it. Wasps holdings paid £6m for ACL.




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[Brighton Sky Blue]

I still don't believe you would bet your hard earn money on them doing a straight forward deal like wasps did.

I would have. Because all of SISU's actions point towards an attempt to get the Ricoh for as little as possible. Offer it to them for the same price as Wasps, they'd have taken it.

Don't see the point in going over this stuff now though, what is important is CCFC's short, medium and long term thinking as to how to proceed. Unless Wasps offer us one hell of a deal our long term future isn't at the Ricoh.

 

[theferret]

So can you explain to me why Wasps will want to do anything hostile to the football club?

Also Wasps owning the Ricoh has made no difference whatsoever to the clubs income streams.

Uh? I've just posted reasons why Wasps will absolutely not want to do anything hostile to the club - we're their customers.

Wasps will not be hostile - but it is irrelevant, because the issue at hand is that they have ownership of something that really ought to have been in the hands of the football club - perhaps not now, but it would have happened in time.

No, our income streams will not change, and therein lies the problem. What has gone is the potential for the club to benefit from revenues that would have made it competitive and perhaps even help bring that bit of success we are all desperate for and which would have given the whole city a massive lift (trying putting a price on THAT).

 

[dongonzalos]

Because they thought the way to go was to distress ACL and force CCC's negotiating position. Had Wasps' chairman not shat on his own fans this would have worked. Had we negotiated the normal way things would have turned out differently though, you are right there.

If you are correct they attempted to distress a business part owned by a council and a charity. In order to get for the cheapest price possible at the financial disadvantage of said charity and council.

Most of the 310,000 Coventry residents don't pay enough attention or are interested enough to understand this.

However if this was explained to them followed by we have a chance to now give ACL to SISU and reward them for this behaviour or we can allow a top flight rugby team to come here and they can have the benefit instead of SISU.

We can't guarantee it but our gut feeling is SISU won't build a new stadium and will stick around.

What would you like us to do? Reject wasps take a chance SISU will match wasps offer and do the deal in a straight forward manner. Also we reward SISU for distressing a charity and council owed business

Or

Sell to wasps and take a chance CCFC might stick around.

It would be interesting to see what the majority of Coventry would have said?

 

[dongonzalos]

I would have. Because all of SISU's actions point towards an attempt to get the Ricoh for as little as possible. Offer it to them for the same price as Wasps, they'd have taken it.

Don't see the point in going over this stuff now though, what is important is CCFC's short, medium and long term thinking as to how to proceed. Unless Wasps offer us one hell of a deal our long term future isn't at the Ricoh.

Where is our future a new 25 million pound stadium?

 

[dongonzalos]

Sorry don it's spin

The £14m is ACL ltd's liability and built into their operating costs. Nothing to do with wasps holdings ltd, they won't pay a penny of it. Wasps holdings paid £6m for ACL.




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Who owns ACL if comes out of the profits the owners paying for it, spin anyway you like

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Who owns ACL if comes out of the profits the owners paying for it, spin anyway you like

If Wasps had to pay off ACL's £14m at the same time as paying for the shares I would agree on it being £20m. Fact is they didn't and have a 250 year lease to settle it.

 

[Malaka]

I don't see how SISU could have financed the deal, they would have had to pay cash for the six million and who would finance a company that had gone bankrupt for 16 million?
They were never going to get the Ricoh and now I think they are looking for an exit strategy to claw back as much cash as they can

 

[dongonzalos]

If Wasps had to pay off ACL's £14m at the same time as paying for the shares I would agree on it being £20m. Fact is they didn't and have a 250 year lease to settle it.

Like you may have 30 years to pay your mortgage. You still would not tell people you bought your house for 30 grand

 

[martcov]

Nailed it.

Apart from SISU unfortunately owning CCFC. The original plan was for CCFC to own at least part of the stadium for the reasons mentioned - but look at us.: homeless, no business plan, pleased that we have a cash flow plus ( more by luck than judgement ) selling our most promising players, relying on loans and, as what almost always seem to happen, back in the relegation struggle. To cap it all we are "building our own stadium" - with absolutely no progress.

Then to say that the council "did it" - closed the door - is really taking the Micky. SISU did this to us. They are still claiming to be building their own stadium, which is why the council had to take their chance with Wasps. This club is doomed if things remain as they are. We won't ever have a new stadium in or near Coventry. The only "deluded" hope is that Wasps may at some time see an opportunity to get us on the cheap - either by distressing SISU, or SISU's investors pull the plug ( unlikely so long they get interest on their investments ).

Otherwise, things can only get worse.

 

[dongonzalos]

I still personally have hardly seen anyone say the wasps deal is good for CCFC

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Like you may have 30 years to pay your mortgage. You still would not tell people you bought your house for 30 grand

That is because the bank gives you the mortgage to pay for it at the point of purchase so technically you have paid whatever it is for the house. Clutching at straws here Dongo.

 

[Buster]

We've been badly run by SISU from day one . They've lost us the Ricoh by playing billy big balls . Wasps owning the stadium isn't the best outcome for ccfc but that's the way it has turned out . Why keep regurgitating the same tripe ? It's not the councils fault ,it's not Higgs fault , it's not the owner of Wasps fault . No good moaning ,build a stadium or stay at the Ricoh on a long term deal with Wasps

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Apart from SISU unfortunately owning CCFC. The original plan was for CCFC to own at least part of the stadium for the reasons mentioned - but look at us.: homeless, no business plan, pleased that we have a cash flow plus ( more by luck than judgement ) selling our most promising players, relying on loans and, as what almost always seem to happen, back in the relegation struggle. To cap it all we are "building our own stadium" - with absolutely no progress.

Then to say that the council "did it" - closed the door - is really taking the Micky. SISU did this to us. They are still claiming to be building their own stadium, which is why the council had to take their chance with Wasps. This club is doomed if things remain as they are. We won't ever have a new stadium in or near Coventry. The only "deluded" hope is that Wasps may at some time see an opportunity to get us on the cheap - either by distressing SISU, or SISU's investors pull the plug ( unlikely so long they get interest on their investments ).

Otherwise, things can only get worse.

Council never made the offer to the club and if you believe SISU say the same things in public as they do behind closed doors you are sorely mistaken.

 

[dongonzalos]

That is because the bank gives you the mortgage to pay for it at the point of purchase so technically you have paid whatever it is for the house. Clutching at straws here Dongo.

The bank in this case are the council
Same logic.
To try and ignore the loan when you discuss the value of this deal is completely wrong.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't see how SISU could have financed the deal, they would have had to pay cash for the six million and who would finance a company that had gone bankrupt for 16 million?
They were never going to get the Ricoh and now I think they are looking for an exit strategy to claw back as much cash as they can

Getting the Ricoh was the exit strategy. They funded losses bigger than £6m in their time here and with an asset on the balance sheet the club could readily have been sold. Sadly those at Council HQ saw that their own accounts were a mess and needed shot of the Ricoh ASAP.

 

[theferret]

I don't see how SISU could have financed the deal, they would have had to pay cash for the six million and who would finance a company that had gone bankrupt for 16 million?
They were never going to get the Ricoh and now I think they are looking for an exit strategy to claw back as much cash as they can

You really think a hedge fund would not have been capable of raising the finance to buy a facility like the Ricoh below its true value? They would have had investors jumping at that. But it was too late at that point.

The offer they put on the table in late 2012 was more generous than that offered by Wasps and would have seen the mortgage settled in full. That it didn't happen is down to them and the way they operated, so I am not defending them, but let's not pretend they are broke. Very naive.

 

[wingy]

I don't see how SISU could have financed the deal, they would have had to pay cash for the six million and who would finance a company that had gone bankrupt for 16 million?
They were never going to get the Ricoh and now I think they are looking for an exit strategy to claw back as much cash as they can

We were all speculating that they could simply re-finance CCFC LTD to get the option.

,Is It really that simple .

Was watching the News the other day when I think RBS were found to have deliberately starved clients of Lending to drive them down and pick them up .

The pundit was saying he doubted the Victims would receive the Compensation due as a result of Liquidation .

Of course I'm aware our Liquidation Is Incomplete so that may be In play .

Wonder when that will finally be completed Bizzarre .

Finally If they had refloated Ltd would all of SISU's debts become live again ,as I believe the debts structured into the Club were one of the biggest barriers to a deal.

 

[albatross]

CCFC would never have owned the RICOH if SISU were in Charge. Back in 2008 they reported the option to purchase the shares from Higgs as transferred into Sky Blue sports and leisure, the parent company so don't kid yourself that with SISU as owners CCFC would have been anything other than a tennant.

 

[martcov]

Council never made the offer to the club and if you believe SISU say the same things in public as they do behind closed doors you are sorely mistaken.

SISU wanted "unencumbered freehold or nothing" with threats of litigation - which they duly carried out. The door was kept open for long enough, but they carried on with the JR and the P.i.t.S stadium crap.

I assume that SISU bullshit continuously and am not sorely mistaken, but the council have to take into account the remote possibilty that SISU may not be bullshitting after all....

 

[Paxman II]

I think the biggest standout issue here is that the Council/ACL/Higgs and SISU ALL messed up big time and all have egg on their faces. Not one of those entities it seems could fight their way out of a paper bag.

WASP owners on the other hand played a blinder. They have a 250 year lease of 100% of the stadium for peanuts. Who are the idiots here?

 

[wingy]

CCFC would never have owned the RICOH if SISU were in Charge. Back in 2008 they reported the option to purchase the shares from Higgs as transferred into Sky Blue sports and leisure, the parent company so don't kid yourself that with SISU as owners CCFC would have been anything other than a tennant.

Huge chance that they would have flipped the ASSET Immediately ,Directly through a Sale or Mortgaged .

 

[wingy]

I think the biggest standout issue here is that the Council/ACL/Higgs and SISU ALL messed up big time and all have egg on their faces. Not one of those entities it seems could fight their way out of a paper bag.

WASP owners on the other hand played a blinder. They have a 250 year lease of 100% of the stadium for peanuts. Who are the idiots here?

FISHER in my Opinion .

 

[dongonzalos]

I think the biggest standout issue here is that the Council/ACL/Higgs and SISU ALL messed up big time and all have egg on their faces. Not one of those entities it seems could fight their way out of a paper bag.

WASP owners on the other hand played a blinder. They have a 250 year lease of 100% of the stadium for peanuts. Who are the idiots here?

Well the council secured jobs, finance and the economy.
They are no longer tied to the Ricoh.
They charity lost money but are no longer tied to the Ricoh
Wasps got the running of a fantastic stadium.
SISU I can't see any positive?
Not sure what we get out if it yet.
Coventry fans as usual shafted and it seems we have to be thankful we are in Coventry????

 

[Gazolba]

It will be great if people can provide evidence to show why the wasps deal is great,.

Is this forum a court of law now?
All people express on here are opinions. You cannot present evidence in a forum. If we are speculating about the future, no one knows what will happen. All we can do is guess based on past experience. People may have vastly differing opinions on that. Lighten up!

 

[skybluetony176]

FISHER in my Opinion .

Tell us something we dont know

 

[dongonzalos]

Is this forum a court of law now?
All people express on here are opinions. You cannot present a fact in a forum. If we are speculating about the future, no one knows what will happen. All we can do is guess based on past experience. People may have vastly differing opinions on that. Lighten up!

Unfortunately I had to turn to a great amount of sarcasm when asked to provide such facts on another forum. It is an event in the future unless we can time travel we can't. Which means we are left to accept the experts advise and I would say common sense that it will.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

What like asking for facts? Yeah, about as delusional as your rent offer.

I was agreeing with some of your points but maybe Dongo is right, you should actually back some of these random statements up with facts rather than just coming back with "What do you think about the points".

Come on, Nick, I was relying on you at least to come back with something better than that!

 

[dongonzalos]

Come on, Nick, I was relying on you at least to come back with something better than that!

I think he probably should have just asked how many people think wasps buying the Ricoh is good for CCFC.

 

[Nick]

Come on, Nick, I was relying on you at least to come back with something better than that!

I was relying on you to actually come back with something well thought out rather than be like a little kid going in a mood and saying the same thing over and over because people don't agree. Sometimes we don't get what we want though do we?