This new stadium... (11 Viewers)

[Paxman II]

Just how plausible is it? When I visit the Ricoh as yesterday I walk around to the entry turnstile and think to myself wow, how did we lose this asset? It's been a shambles. But there may be ways forward. Personally I'd like the stadium used for many sports including Speedway even. That was never grasped by the encumbered ACL. Bums on seats was the name of the game. I doubt WASP will ever produce more than several thousand fans in there ever. Yesterday our so called club in decline still managed over 8k fans and if the club reach back into the prem 25k+ would be common.

So WASP have a true incentive to look at CCFC as a long standing tenant. The football club are better off now than when they left for Sixfileds as it happens, at least for the next few years.

The long term they are either bought out by WASP which seems an obvious idea for me or they branch away and build this modular stadium designed to increase capacity as needed. Again how truly plausible is it?
Would developers pay for it? Would SISU/Arvo/Otium or whichever division hold that mortgage or the football club?

Would there be large development around the stadium such as Tesco, restaurants etc? And how would such a stadium compete with the Ricoh or would it seriously affect WASP running of the Ricoh?

It's an interest conundrum but for some to suggest another stadium is pure fantasy may not be correct.

 

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[Ashdown]

SISU won't build a new stadium, it was always just more spin and lies from them !
The Wasps marketing people might at least improve the stadium and the matchday experience in many ways.
It will never feel that great until we have a competitive enough team to attract above 15,000 per game. This will never happen under SISU either, as soon as a player is showing enough promise to turn a profit he'll be sold.

There are only two ways CCFC can get out of this downward spiral:

A manager who can miraculously get a decent team together on a shoestring and hold them together for at least one successful season to gain promotion or we get new wealthy and ambitious owners. Sadly I think for any real improvement at the club, the same morons who have been tearing it all apart piece by piece have to depart and not liquidate before they do !

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

It all revolves around this 365 days a year revenue.

I just don't get it. Apart from 20 odd home games and everything involved with that, maybe a stadium sponsorship deal...what revenue will ccfc get from the other 345 days? I don't for one minute believe Sisu and their investors have the cash to build a stadium like the Ricoh with conference venues, hotel, casinos etc. getting planning permisson is another thing.

So seriously...what is this all year round revenue the club would would earn from a small 15k stadium?

Big issue is that I don't think any outside investors would trust working with Sisu to even build a stadium.

Sisu are in a right dilemma and I think is fans should really demand some answers now.

 

[Noggin]

I think it's pure fantasy because 1) the numbers don't add up and 2) there doesn't seem to be any appetite for partners to such a project, we already have too many out of town shopping areas and too many supermarkets, online shopping is becoming more and more prevalent both for retail stores and for supermarkets. They aren't going to find a Tescos to help bankroll it in the way they did with the Ricoh. 3) if it wasn't pure fantasy they would be further ahead by now.

 

[Paxman II]

SISU won't build a new stadium, it was always just more spin and lies from them !
The Wasps marketing people might at least improve the stadium and the matchday experience in many ways.
It will never feel that great until we have a competitive enough team to attract above 15,000 per game. This will never happen under SISU either, as soon as a player is showing enough promise to turn a profit he'll be sold.

There are only two ways CCFC can get out of this downward spiral:



A manager who can miraculously get a decent team together on a shoestring and hold them together for at least one successful season to gain promotion or we get new wealthy and ambitious owners. Sadly I think for any real improvement at the club, the same morons who have been tearing it all apart piece by piece have to depart and not liquidate before they do !

You are not addressing the question other than the usual "they won't build" sound bite.
Why do you think they won't Ashdown based on facts not supposition and theory. Ther are many ways to skin a cat and equally to finance a stadium. Is it plausible?

 

[Noggin]

You are not addressing the question other than the usual "they won't build" sound bite.
Why do you think they won't Ashdown based on facts not supposition and theory. Ther are many ways to skin a cat and equally to finance a stadium. Is it plausible?

You need facts of why they would build, something like a back of a fag packet calculation about how it could possibly work financially, the fact no one has ever been able to do this when dozens of people have done the opposite and shown with numbers why they think it won't work says everything.

 

[Noggin]

The simple fact of the matter really is that they could have doubled the amount of money wasps paid for the Ricoh and it still would have been much more viable financially and much easier to get finance for than building a new stadium.

 

[Paxman II]

Noggin I don't disagree. My OP though was about plausibility. If you say there are figures showing it won't work then post them or a link and lets see what they are and who exactly drew up these numbers and if they had any idea of what was to be built and if they had inside knowledge of SISU's approaches to investors?

 

[stupot07]

OSB wrote a good post about it yesterday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[martcov]

It all revolves around this 365 days a year revenue.

I just don't get it. Apart from 20 odd home games and everything involved with that, maybe a stadium sponsorship deal...what revenue will ccfc get from the other 345 days? I don't for one minute believe Sisu and their investors have the cash to build a stadium like the Ricoh with conference venues, hotel, casinos etc. getting planning permisson is another thing.

So seriously...what is this all year round revenue the club would would earn from a small 15k stadium?

Big issue is that I don't think any outside investors would trust working with Sisu to even build a stadium.

Sisu are in a right dilemma and I think is fans should really demand some answers now.

I agree entirely. Some say they would take more land than they need, build shops, Offices, or houses and sell off or rent the development. If it's that simple, why not make the development without the stadium? Stadium takes up development land and is only used 20 odd times a year. I don't see the point of the new small stadium without all the facilities of the Ricoh and not even in Coventry.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

If it's that simple, why not make the development without the stadium?

Of course usually leisure facilities are used as the battering rams for planning consent that otherwise wouldn't happen, meaning the profit on the initial land purchase can be greater as a result because land that would otherwise have limited value, suddenly gains a value.

 

[Tonylinc]

I suspect Pax that you too know that a new stadium will not work. There is really no need for any figures. Any new stadium will be in direct competition with the Ricoh and the NEC for "all year round", business. Tell me who you think would win in that situation.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I suspect Pax that you too know that a new stadium will not work. There is really no need for any figures. Any new stadium will be in direct competition with the Ricoh and the NEC for "all year round", business. Tell me who you think would win in that situation.

Depends what business you go for.

Naive to assume there's a finite level of a set type. If there was, the Ricoh would lose out to the NEC for everything...

It would however probably be in the interests of ACL's new owners to attempt to restrict competition if possible.

 

[bigfatronssba]

I don't think Sisu have the financial clout to get something like this up and running.

But lets just say if they have the money, and the will is there, I still don't see where they could put it.

For a development on the scale that they were talking about (60 acres was it?), there simply isn't the land available inside the city.

Building it just outside the city is going to be an automatic no no because of the greenbelt.

As I posted the other day, if its conference facilities and exhibitions that sisu want to make money on, why not just build an exhibition centre somewhere? Doesn't even have to be in the Midlands, it could be anywhere. It could also be built at a fraction of the cost of a football ground.

It makes no sense to build a new ground on the basis of non matchday revenues. Why build a football ground when your emphasis is on non matchday revenues?

What I would like to see happen is for that fat arse of a chairman to actually earn his wage for once by using his imagination. For a bunch of capitalists they have very little vision.

They should try and negotiate a long term rental agreement with Wasps, that allows the club to get all matchday revenues it generates.

They should then look at ways to generate income away from the stadium. Build an exhibition centre somewhere, recreate something like the connexions, why not open a Sky Blues sports bar in town?

The possibilities are endless to generate additional income, but they have such narrow vision they cannot see it.

 

[wingy]

I agree entirely. Some say they would take more land than they need, build shops, Offices, or houses and sell off or rent the development. If it's that simple, why not make the development without the stadium? Stadium takes up development land and is only used 20 odd times a year. I don't see the point of the new small stadium without all the facilities of the Ricoh and not even in Coventry.

Did wonder If they were behind the Brandon Housing development for that exact purpose ,but they're not .

Re Stadium, I'd say their own Is about identity ,the RICOH certainly won't hold that 100% any more .

Couple that with downsizing to meet current needs and there are the reasons .

The RICOH no longer fits our aims or actualities ,has become soulless unwanted etc .

Unwanted ,from the mouth of our Owner ,I believe her on that ,that Is why their bid held no merit ,just a motion to go through IMO.

 

[Tonylinc]

Depends what business you go for.

Naive to assume there's a finite level of a set type. If there was, the Ricoh would lose out to the NEC for everything...

It would however probably be in the interests of ACL's new owners to attempt to restrict competition if possible.

AND the way in which they do that is?......offer CCFC a good rent and possibly some matchday revenue?

 

[Ashdown]

You are not addressing the question other than the usual "they won't build" sound bite.
Why do you think they won't Ashdown based on facts not supposition and theory. Ther are many ways to skin a cat and equally to finance a stadium. Is it plausible?

More than anything else, I think SISU want to get out as much as we want them to depart, they're not going to take a huge gamble building a new stadium and hope it's already disenfranchised fanbase will blindly follow. Most people in Coventry hate and distrust SISU, we don't want them here. 20 years ago we could have hoped for a new owner to roll up I suppose and give it a punt but even that is a long shot now, especially since Wasps grabbed the Ricoh for a song !

 

[italiahorse]

Of course usually leisure facilities are used as the battering rams for planning consent that otherwise wouldn't happen, meaning the profit on the initial land purchase can be greater as a result because land that would otherwise have limited value, suddenly gains a value.

Can you give an example to help us understand ?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

AND the way in which they do that is?......offer CCFC a good rent and possibly some matchday revenue?

Accept that as a way to heading off competition, Wasps are probably better off not looking to make money from CCFC but, rather, accomodate them by offering them a presence in the stadium that doesn't aim for a profit for ACL.

While the threat of a new stadium is nowt but a drawing however, there is no reason for Wasps to do this.

 

[Noggin]

Noggin I don't disagree. My OP though was about plausibility. If you say there are figures showing it won't work then post them or a link and lets see what they are and who exactly drew up these numbers and if they had any idea of what was to be built and if they had inside knowledge of SISU's approaches to investors?

The figures are just people on heres assumptions not any insider knowledge but my point is that dozens of people have made posts with numbers why they think it won't work (I've made attempts at it myself but arn't willing to do so again and the forum search is hopeless) yet no one on the otherside of the debate, nore sisu have been able to do the same. Even just making up numbers and being generous to sisu you can't produce anything that makes sence.

Like I say the simple fact of the matter is sisu could have paid 10mill + take on the 14mill loan for the Ricoh and that would a) be significantly cheaper than building themselves b) get something much much better c) get something with a reputation for concerts and events already in tact, d) get something many years earlier, e) be easier to get finance for due to massively less risk. f) likely be in a much better location and with better transport links, the Ricoh is by a major motorway and about to get a train station. There is just no way they are building their own stadium, if they actually were serious about it as soon as the wasps deal became known they should have done everything they could to get the ricoh even if that meant doubling wasps offer.

Even just borrowing say 30mill at 3% the numbers don't work and I see no way that anyone would invest in a project like this for that sort of money, I have a family member who has lent to a developer at 20% interest, it's unsecured and there is risk involved of course but it's less risky than sisus project would be. You'd be nuts to invest at 3%.

 

[Tonylinc]

I don't think Sisu have the financial clout to get something like this up and running.

But lets just say if they have the money, and the will is there, I still don't see where they could put it.

For a development on the scale that they were talking about (60 acres was it?), there simply isn't the land available inside the city.

Building it just outside the city is going to be an automatic no no because of the greenbelt.

As I posted the other day, if its conference facilities and exhibitions that sisu want to make money on, why not just build an exhibition centre somewhere? Doesn't even have to be in the Midlands, it could be anywhere. It could also be built at a fraction of the cost of a football ground.

It makes no sense to build a new ground on the basis of non matchday revenues. Why build a football ground when your emphasis is on non matchday revenues?

What I would like to see happen is for that fat arse of a chairman to actually earn his wage for once by using his imagination. For a bunch of capitalists they have very little vision.

They should try and negotiate a long term rental agreement with Wasps, that allows the club to get all matchday revenues it generates.

They should then look at ways to generate income away from the stadium. Build an exhibition centre somewhere, recreate something like the connexions, why not open a Sky Blues sports bar in town?

The possibilities are endless to generate additional income, but they have such narrow vision they cannot see it.

Not too sure about the possibilities you mention but am glad to see somebody thinking "outside the box", for once.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

More than anything else, I think SISU want to get out as much as we want them to depart, they're not going to take a huge gamble building a new stadium and hope it's already disenfranchised fanbase will blindly follow. Most people in Coventry hate and distrust SISU, we don't want them here. 20 years ago we could have hoped for a new owner to roll up I suppose and give it a punt but even that is a long shot now, especially since Wasps grabbed the Ricoh for a song !

The problem isn't a new owner rolling along; they always roll along if the chance is there. (and in that instance it's why it's daft clinging to whoever puts their head above the battlements, as to do so stops other, potentially better, choices rocking up)

The problem is it's probably in SISU's interests, whenever they do decide enough is enough, to send the club to oblivion rather than to sell up...

 

[ajsccfc]

One of the reasons I couldn't see a new stadium built is that it'd mean a new one was sat unused nearby. Having a second stadium seems less ridiculous as a concept now there's top flight sport at the Ricoh either way, but still, nah.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Not too sure about the possibilities you mention but am glad to see somebody thinking "outside the box", for once.

Well like you say, regardless of the particular possibilities, I would just like to see them try something new for once.

To me its illogical to build a football stadium because you want to host a jobs fair or the local WI meeting.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

One of the reasons I couldn't see a new stadium built is that it'd mean a new one was sat unused nearby. Having a second stadium seems less ridiculous as a concept now there's top flight sport at the Ricoh either way, but still, nah.

Go into partnership with the University of Warwick however, much as Bristol Rovers have done with UWE, and it becomes feasible.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Anyway, this is how the numbers stack up:

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/51148-A-Possible-Ground-Solution

 

[Noggin]

Anyway, this is how the numbers stack up:

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/51148-A-Possible-Ground-Solution

even if villa wanted to be part of that bizarre idea it would be far worse for Coventry City than just paying rent to acl. Of course I thought it was a joke thread at the time and so ignored it, but since you put it here too I commented.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

even if villa wanted to be part of that bizarre idea it would be far worse for Coventry City than just paying rent to acl.

Nah, just business.

 

[Noggin]

Nah, just business.

I assumed the thread was a joke, but it would be far worse for ccfc because they would no longer have the ability to profit from selling the kids which seems to be the only way they could actually ever make money and 10k seats isn't enough even for league one, they are better paying rent for a proper venue.

 

[Tonylinc]

Anyway, this is how the numbers stack up:

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/51148-A-Possible-Ground-Solution

You need to be burned at the stake for that suggestion

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I assumed the thread was a joke, but it would be far worse for ccfc because they would no longer have the ability to profit from selling the kids which seems to be the only way they could actually ever make money and 10k seats isn't enough even for league one, they are better paying rent for a proper venue.

Nah, it'd be good for the city, and potentially good for the club too.

I can't help but notice your definition of 'nobody has showed a way forward that works' equates to you being closed minded, sticking your fingers in your ears, and refusing to listen to anything unless it tallies with your world view...

 

[skybluetony176]

Depends what business you go for.

Naive to assume there's a finite level of a set type. If there was, the Ricoh would lose out to the NEC for everything...

It would however probably be in the interests of ACL's new owners to attempt to restrict competition if possible.

We took the kids to the NEC earlier this year for the pet show. It was only 1 hall and one of the smaller ones. The only reason I could see it was on at the NEC was because it has a railway link. Thats about to change so I would imagine that the Ricoh will start drawing the eye of some of these smaller one hall shows and exhibitions. You wont be able to say the same about SISU towers

 

[Deleted member 5849]

We took the kids to the NEC earlier this year for the pet show. It was only 1 hall and one of the smaller ones. The only reason I could see it was on at the NEC was because it has a railway. Thats about to change so I would imagine that the Ricoh will start drawing the eye of some of these smaller one hall shows and exhibitions. You wont be able to say the same about SISU towers

So you're saying that the Ricoh would go for a different type of exhibition to the NEC... but a rival would be forced to position itself in exactly the same way to the Ricoh...?

 

[Noggin]

Nah, it'd be good for the city, and potentially good for the club too.

I can't help but notice your definition of 'nobody has showed a way forward that works' equates to you being closed minded, sticking your fingers in your ears, and refusing to listen to anything unless it tallies with your world view...

I still don't know weather you've gone nuts or are on the windup.

Your idea has no ability for major windfalls from selling kids, no ability for windfalls from big home cup ties, no ability to take advantage of the increased crowds if we were anything close to playoffs and would be completely screwed if we got promoted and our part in it would be the best part of 10mill. If Ryton could be sold for anything like that they the best option is to put the club into administration and what few assets the club has and leave. If they actually were willing to properly invest they should have brought the ricoh. There is no scenario where they build a new stadium that makes sence financially over buying the ricoh (even at doubling wasps offer so there was no way it could be turned down)

 

[Tonylinc]

Look lets get this straight. Any new tin pot stadium built by our owners would NEVER be able to compete with the Ricoh and the NEC for business. So that is a complete non-starter. Please for the sake of God Shitzu just come out and say so and tell us what your future intentions are!