Has anyone got any updates from the SBT meeting tonight? (17 Viewers)

[Neutral Fan]

I didn't dress it up either way. If you think every professional sports team is a franchise, fine you're probably right.

Yep he's right. It's a franchise. And Moonsine/MGI denying it won''t fool anyone.

 

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[Senior Vick from Alicante]

I think we are looking at things from different perspectives and we are talking about Rugby football and Football. One is far bigger than the other and they operate differently tbf.

I doubt you would see a football club do what WASP have done and moreover since the Wimbledon/MK Dons saga that loop hole has been closed up. So we would not have CCFC playing in any new stadium in say, London.

It's different for WASP. Clearly being based in a large city like Coventry, over time they will of course be trading their very own support from one base to the new base. They will succeed in that I'm sure and be a very successful Rugby club here. Good luck to them I bear no anger towards them.

What I suggest most people are angry about is the way the shenanigans went on behind the scenes and we ended up with CCFC losing any right to ownership of 'their' stadium. That can't be right can it? Yes the current owners, referred commonly as SISU did not help their cause one bit but the council really did put the boot in where it hurt by completing a deal they did not bring to the football clubs table, either to SISU or even other interested parties that could have had influence in the proceedings, ensuring transparency.
Those could have been the likes of Elliot, who had approached the council and ACL previously with Hoffman to try and wrench the club from SISU's hand.
The council acted without due care and a thorough thought process. If they simply hanged their hat on the fact WASP will and have promised the need for CCFC to remain a tenant, then they were not listening to repeated commands that the football club needs to own it's stadium and income streams for sustainability?
JS bemoaned the 'freehold' concept was required but if you are offering a 250 year lease then that is virtually of an equal level for the purposes that CCFC needed. It was therefore crucial this information should have been shared, before any thought of accepting a Rugby club from elsewhere to displace the communities 125 year old football club from their home.

Unless someone knows different to those facts then I will remain angry as hell with the council dim wits that helped bring this about. For those that simply blame SISU for all our ills you are not wrong but on this one they can't be blamed for something they had no knowledge of or given a chance to participate in that process.

I agree with most of the post Paxman, the council could have offered the same deal to the owners of the club and others for that matter. My only point would be that the details of the original negotiations with Sisu have never been made public because of commercial confidentiality. We don't know how long the lease offer was that was made to Sisu as all they kept talking about as far as Fisher was concerned was the unencumbered freehold, Anne Lucas made this clear in all of her interviews.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Yep he's right. It's a franchise. And Moonsine/MGI denying it won''t fool anyone.

It's a slightly bizarre thing to deny, tbh.

And slightly concerning too. If they deny that... it's not the best start to a new, open communication where fans take precedence.

Not exactly an upgrade on the football club's current lot, in fact. Won't be long before he's muttering about turkeys and eagles.

 

[Bill Glazier]

I didn't dress it up either way. If you think every professional sports team is a franchise, fine you're probably right.

It's not doubly wrong for Wasps though.
It's wrong for me, as my username suggests I don't live anywhere near Coventry.
It's right though for Wasps for exactly the reason that it IS permanent, Wasps haven't had a permanent home in the professional era.

In your opinion, might Wasps buy CCFC?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I've nothing personal against Wasps fans, or you SFP. You're clearly a decent chap, as I don't doubt are all Wasps fans. However, I do sincerely hope that the franchise fails and Wasps go back south.

I've got two reasons for this - one is that I honestly think that franchising is morally wrong, and the second is that I think it would be far better for CCFC's long term aims if you weren't here. Forgive me.

I'd like to echo this, too. The main tragedy is that, once again, fans have to make a choice that probably should never have had to be made.

It's not their fault, though.

 

[duffer]

Duffer, nothing to forgive.

Do I detect a bit of peace and understanding breaking out?

Yes, agreed we are a London club, we argued the point 'til we were blue in the face, we lost, we will now be a Coventry club..
Yes, agreed we are a franchise by your description, just like any other sports club that's no longer owned by it's members. The difference is that we've moved.
Yes, a lot of Wasps supporters feel disenfranchised (nice, can't quite believe that's the first time I've seen the word used in this context)
Yes, if we move back to London I won't be sad, but by that time it might disenfranchise Coventry folk.

There are clearly no guarantees in this life, I used the word Permanent in response to its use in a post and used it to differentiate between renting and owning.

If we differ though it's on CCFC's long term aims. Now I know I've got no right to comment on them especially on this forum, I don't even really know what they are, but I'm guessing that one of them is to own your own ground preferably the Ricoh. If Wasps do fail they won't disappear back down south as a professional outfit they would fall down the leagues and fold or be absorbed back into the amateur club that still exists in London. Our owners would be left with a facility that they would need to maximise their return on, to me that means either selling to the highest bidder or screwing the remaining tenants either option could be worse than you've got.

Fair comment SFP, and I'm all in favour of peace and understanding - the one thing that's clear is that Wasps fans haven't got any blame in all this. Lovely as Coventry is at this time of year, I don't doubt you'd rather not have to come up here too often.

And you're quite correct to point out the risks in Wasps failure, were it to happen. It could well leave CCFC in a worse place, although unless Saracens or suchlike suddenly fancy a pied-a-terre up north you'd have to think the club would be back in pole position to strike a deal. Regardless though, it's still the franchise thing that I can't abide. Even if it did CCFC no favours, I'd still like it to fail. What a bloody horrible thing to say, to a man who clearly loves his club - sorry. But I don't want Wasps to fail anywhere except here, to be clear.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Fair comment SFP, and I'm all in favour of peace and understanding - the one thing that's clear is that Wasps fans haven't got any blame in all this. Lovely as Coventry is at this time of year, I don't doubt you'd rather not have to come up here too often.

And you're quite correct to point out the risks in Wasps failure, were it to happen. It could well leave CCFC in a worse place, although unless Saracens or suchlike suddenly fancy a pied-a-terre up north you'd have to think the club would be back in pole position to strike a deal. Regardless though, it's still the franchise thing that I can't abide. Even if it did CCFC no favours, I'd still like it to fail. What a bloody horrible thing to say, to a man who clearly loves his club - sorry. But I don't want Wasps to fail anywhere except here, to be clear.

One would assume the failure of a club who moved here, would be a deterrant for others considering moving here.

 

[torchomatic]

Absolutely. I was reading some of the posts on Twitter from CJBlaze annoyingly using phrases like "but Wasps needed a home", etc. What a load of shit. If they need a home then let them find one. In London, not a hundred miles away to a city with absolutely no affinity to either the team or their supporters.

100 miles away from Coventry. After all we wouldn't be homeless anymore.

 

[stupot07]

Absolutely. I was reading some of the posts on Twitter from CJBlaze annoyingly using phrases like "but Wasps needed a home", etc. What a load of shit. If they need a home then let them find one. In London, not a hundred miles away to a city with absolutely no affinity to either the team or their supporters.

And upton park was available.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[martcov]

Absolutely. I was reading some of the posts on Twitter from CJBlaze annoyingly using phrases like "but Wasps needed a home", etc. What a load of shit. If they need a home then let them find one. In London, not a hundred miles away to a city with absolutely no affinity to either the team or their supporters.

They did find one. One that had been vacated by the tenants. Albeit more than an hour from London, but at least it's there for the next 250 years. Find a deal like that. Don't blame Wasps for taking what is a super deal. Blame the tossers who vacated a stadium in our city and made such a song and dance about doing so, that the only result was going to be that someone moved into the empty facility.

If you want shit, then phone up ML, he was always good for bullshit. I am sure he's bored now and would love someone like you to talk to.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They did find one. One that had been vacated by the tenants. Albeit more than an hour from London, but at least it's there for the next 250 years. Find a deal like that. Don't blame Wasps for taking what is a super deal. Blame the tossers who vacated a stadium in our city and made such a song and dance about doing so, that the only result was going to be that someone moved into the empty facility.

If you want shit, then phone up ML, he was always good for bullshit. I am sure he's bored now and would love someone like you to talk to.

Upton Park?

 

[M&B Stand]

They did find one. One that had been vacated by the tenants. Albeit more than an hour from London, but at least it's there for the next 250 years. Find a deal like that. Don't blame Wasps for taking what is a super deal. Blame the tossers who vacated a stadium in our city and made such a song and dance about doing so, that the only result was going to be that someone moved into the empty facility.

If you want shit, then phone up ML, he was always good for bullshit. I am sure he's bored now and would love someone like you to talk to.

Why are you so pleased for them?

It's almost comical we've City fans
Waxing lyrical about Wasps 'super deal'.

 

[torchomatic]

I wonder how the relationship between the football club and Wasps will be? If it's not too good and we have to move out then may I suggest, Millmoor? It's still standing and unused as far as I'm aware. After all, we'd "need a home", wouldn't we? As you and others seem as happy as pigs in shit that SISU have fallen on their faces - despite the fact that CCFC will now be tenants for generations to come - I'm sure you'll be big supporters of the scheme.

They did find one. One that had been vacated by the tenants. Albeit more than an hour from London, but at least it's there for the next 250 years. Find a deal like that. Don't blame Wasps for taking what is a super deal. Blame the tossers who vacated a stadium in our city and made such a song and dance about doing so, that the only result was going to be that someone moved into the empty facility.

If you want shit, then phone up ML, he was always good for bullshit. I am sure he's bored now and would love someone like you to talk to.

 

[torchomatic]

I honestly can't think that fans of other clubs would be so pleased that their club has been fucked over by a team from 100 miles away.

Why are you so pleased for them?

It's almost comical we've City fans
Waxing lyrical about Wasps 'super deal'.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It's only a super deal if the remit is to find a new ground anywhere. As the stated remit was a new ground in London... it's not such a super deal.

Still, if Rangers go pop there may be an opportunity for a super deal on an unencumbered freehold up at Ibrox.

 

[martcov]

Upton Park?

think not

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

think not

I'm floored by that one, fair play.

 

[dongonzalos]

Pretty sure someone else has already explained to you why upton park wasn't an option on another thread.
I can't recall what it was TBH, however I am sure they did.

 

[stupot07]

Pretty sure someone else has already explained to you why upton park wasn't an option on another thread.
I can't recall what it was TBH, however I am sure they did.

I can only presume the reason was because it was actually in London.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Pretty sure someone else has already explained to you why upton park wasn't an option on another thread.
I can't recall what it was TBH, however I am sure they did.

I'm sure No Franchise Nick knows why.

 

[martcov]

Why are you so pleased for them?

It's almost comical we've City fans
Waxing lyrical about Wasps 'super deal'.

Read the whole post. Yes, I think Wasps got a good deal. Great for them. What I am annoyed about is not that Wasps have a good deal, but that our Tossers should have got the deal instead of messing around in court cases, throwing keys on the counter at the Ricoh, taking us on a forced "holiday" to Northampton and then coming back only to affirm that they are leaving again. Is that comical enough for you? You couldn't write a script like that.

 

[dongonzalos]

I can only presume the reason was because it was actually in London.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Not quite sure that was it
Think it was something to do with the deal West Ham got and providing more property in London or something along those lines

 

[M&B Stand]

Read the whole post. Yes, I think Wasps got a good deal. Great for them. What I am annoyed about is not that Wasps have a good deal, but that our Tossers should have got the deal instead of messing around in court cases, throwing keys on the counter at the Ricoh, taking us on a forced "holiday" to Northampton and then coming back only to affirm that they are leaving again. Is that comical enough for you? You couldn't write a script like that.

Yeah, great for them.

Your hatred for Sisu has turned into hatred for your own football club.

 

[skybluetony176]

And upton park was available.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Dont be silly. Upton Park is the wrong side of London for the Wasps

 

[Norman Binns]

Yeah, great for them.

Your hatred for Sisu has turned into hatred for your own football club.

I disagree. He’s only telling it as it is. You are unable to come to terms with the situation and unable face the facts. You’re venting your frustration in the wrong direction.

 

[martcov]

Yeah, great for them.

Your hatred for Sisu has turned into hatred for your own football club.

at at what point did I say anything against CCFC? I referred to our tossers - management of Otium. Chancers from 96 miles down the M1 - even further than Wycombe. Wrong to criticise them but ok to slag Wasps who have only just arrived and have absolutely nothing to do with our demise.

 

[Nick]

Pretty sure someone else has already explained to you why upton park wasn't an option on another thread.
I can't recall what it was TBH, however I am sure they did.

Too expensive wasn't it?

 

[M&B Stand]

I disagree. He’s only telling it as it is. You are unable to come to terms with the situation and unable face the facts. You’re venting your frustration in the wrong direction.

No, You've confused coming to terms with the situation with liking it.

I'm not happy that a London based rugby team bought the stadium that was built for us.
You seem okay with it, because it's one in the eye for SISU.

 

[Nick]

No, You've confused coming to terms with the situation with liking it.

I'm not happy that a London based rugby team bought the stadium that was built for us.
You seem okay with it, because it's one in the eye for SISU.

It's ok though as wasps are laying a new pitch just for ccfc benefit, they said so so everybody believes it

 

[Norman Binns]

No, You've confused coming to terms with the situation with liking it.

I'm not happy that a London based rugby team bought the stadium that was built for us.
You seem okay with it, because it's one in the eye for SISU.

Nowhere have I claimed to be particularly ok with it other than keep an open mind and I've certainly not intimated it being one in the eye for SISU. Your bitterness is clouding your thinking.

Here's a thought. You were particularly obnoxious earlier on towards a polite and courteous Wasps fan who came on here to give his take on the situation. I believe you said to him he wasn't welcome in Coventry. I think he'd have every justification in saying you weren't welcome in his club's Stadium.

 

[martcov]

It's ok though as wasps are laying a new pitch just for ccfc benefit, they said so so everybody believes it

I believe they will and that it will benefit CCFC ( as well as a Wasps ). Now, let's look at our owners..... Can we believe that Tim is building a new stadium ..... Just for CCFC? I cannot believe that. So at the moment I make it 1:0 to Wasps.

 

[Nick]

I believe they will and that it will benefit CCFC ( as well as a Wasps ). Now, let's look at our owners..... Can we believe that Tim is building a new stadium ..... Just for CCFC? I cannot believe that. So at the moment I make it 1:0 to Wasps.

Ah no wonder you are supporting them, they are winning

It's the age old response of comparing to sisu as a defence, which means nothing really does it?

 

[Paxman II]

I agree with most of the post Paxman, the council could have offered the same deal to the owners of the club and others for that matter. My only point would be that the details of the original negotiations with Sisu have never been made public because of commercial confidentiality. We don't know how long the lease offer was that was made to Sisu as all they kept talking about as far as Fisher was concerned was the unencumbered freehold, Anne Lucas made this clear in all of her interviews.

Yep and that would suggest she never mentioned or even (to give her some credit) the possibility of a 250 year lease as an alternative that would almost be like having the freehold and at a far reduced rate than buying the freehold would have been too! Do you really suppose those confidential offers may have included such an option and SISU would have ignored that too? I would find that extremely difficult to believe and so for me that is not in there. Of course SISU could tell us this as fact and clear that up. Just answer the question: "was a 250 year lease for peanuts ever on the table for CCFC"?

 

[Grendel]

Nowhere have I claimed to be particularly ok with it other than keep an open mind and I've certainly not intimated it being one in the eye for SISU. Your bitterness is clouding your thinking.

So their are 2 Norman Binns on here? I'm sure one started a post about now going to watch rugby instead of CCFC?

Deserting a club at its lowest ebb in half a century.

Go and join that other troll Martcov on some rugby forum and fuck off from here.

 

[James Smith]

but no one is happy about it are they? there is a massive difference though between not being pleased that CCFC can now not buy ACL. and considering ourselves at war with the evil wasps, I think we all know this deal has been bad news for our club in the medium/long term, but we were screwed by sisu, not wasps.

I'm not blaming Wasps for making what was from their perspective a very sensible purchase. I don't approve of their move just as I didn't approve of ours to Northampton and obviously the Ricoh is our home, it wasn't built for Wasps. I don't think however that real fans can be pleased that Sisu and therefore the club are now out of any chance of getting back any part of the Ricoh. What I am saying is that the two faced council shouldn't have have accepted an offer (and extended the lease) to a team who were moving some considerable distance, whilst condeming Sisu for moving our club to Sixfields. That's double standards (or hypocritcal) at best. I feel sorry for the wasps fans who will find it hard or impossible to make the trip to Coventry, and they've got further to go than the 35miles we moved.