wasps (10 Viewers)

[Nick]

agree with three quarters of that. Well said. Don't think though, that you can come to the conclusion that the Trust would embrace a similar strategy. That is really pure guess work and not even based on statements or indications that the trust would ever support a 100 miles away stadium.

So they would for another team but just not ours? Wasn't this in reply to steve's (the chairman of the trust) posts justifying and supporting the move for Wasps on here?

 

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[Covstu]

agree with three quarters of that. Well said. Don't think though, that you can come to the conclusion that the Trust would embrace a similar strategy. That is really pure guess work and not even based on statements or indications that the trust would ever support a 100 miles away stadium.

would agree on this point, however it will be interesting to see if the council play ball on land availability for a 2nd stadium or whether the club are forced to go outside of the boundaries.

 

[martcov]

Don't think I've ever hoped so much that other people are right i.e. that wasps will be good for ccfc, sisu will leave cos of wasps, cfrc won't be harmed. Can I cross my own fingers and hope I'm wrong both in opposing the wasps deal on principle and because I don't see how it is good for us?

I don't think that the Wasps move was completed for our good. The people responsible for " our good" are building another stadium nearby. Better ask them how that works out good for us. Usually they say " 365 days income ". Cannot agree with them on that, based on their new stadium concept, but maybe I should cross my fingers and hope that the new stadium comes off and that it is for " our good "?

 

[martcov]

would agree on this point, however it will be interesting to see if the council play ball on land availability for a 2nd stadium or whether the club are forced to go outside of the boundaries.

I don't think that the council are all powerful in a democracy. They have to abide by planning laws etc.. I think they also have other priorities and that they have to listen to local residents. The residents in Wycombe scuppered Wasps plans there and I think people usually like having things like stadiums in their city - just not next door to them.

 

[martcov]

So they would for another team but just not ours? Wasn't this in reply to steve's (the chairman of the trust) posts justifying and supporting the move for Wasps on here?

I think there is a difference between "our team" and someone else's. We have a stadium in our city designed for CCFC. There is no need to move, but there is a need to do a deal for permanent tenure - here in our stadium and in our city.

if the deal is now with wasps instead of CCC and Higgs, so be it. Get on with it Tim, and cut the crap about a new stadium somewhere near here.

 

[Nick]

I think there is a difference between "our team" and someone else's. We have a stadium in our city designed for CCFC. There is no need to move, but there is a need to do a deal for permanent tenure - here in our stadium and in our city.

if the deal is now with wasps instead of CCC and Higgs, so be it. Get on with it Tim, and cut the crap about a new stadium somewhere near here.

There isn't really is there? If people from the Trust can come out and justify wasps moving because they were "dying", they can't really moan if we get moved 80 miles to a cheap stadium can they while we are "dying"?

It is all well and good saying "yeah but that isnt us", "it is a different team". When you are banging on about fix football, sport being corrupt for letting teams move and then supporting and justifying other teams moves how does that look?

Either moving teams is wrong or it is right, especially when some of the people at the trust weren't shy at showing their opinion of people who went to Sixfields yet think it is ok to come on here giving everybody the propaganda about how the Wasps move is so good.

 

[chiefdave]

Its worse than that really. What wasps have done is "pick up the Ricoh on the cheap" something so against the ethos of many.

Without sisu and there strategy wasps would not be here. If the club was still funding the councils little hobby by paying the grossly inflated rent then they would no doubt still be in Wycombe.

Sisu pretty much killed off ACL and wasps came along and feasted on the dying carcass.

I can only conclude that the trust would embrace a similar strategy by sisu. Namely find a stadium on its arse some 100 miles away and move there.

I'm increasingly concerned at how often I agree with Grendel recently but this is spot on.

SISU's plan worked perfectly apart from the fact that after distressing ACL someone else nipped in and got it on the cheap before SISU. If we had of kept paying the ridiculously high rent this wouldn't have been an option, similarly if we'd negotiated a new lower rent without moving out and / or purchased the Higgs half of ACL this wouldn't have happened.

Now that it has happened its very hard to see a positive for us or how we will be able to achieve long term sustainability with practically zero chance of ever owning even a stake in our ground.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I think there is a difference between "our team" and someone else's. We have a stadium in our city designed for CCFC. There is no need to move, but there is a need to do a deal for permanent tenure - here in our stadium and in our city.

if the deal is now with wasps instead of CCC and Higgs, so be it. Get on with it Tim, and cut the crap about a new stadium somewhere near here.

Previously we had a stadium in our city designed for CCFC but no more, the Ricoh now is primarily a rugby stadium. The football is a side activity who make them a little bit extra profit.

In terms of ACL priorities now it goes rugby, conferences/hotel/concerts/other events, football.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

There isn't really is there? If people from the Trust can come out and justify wasps moving because they were "dying", they can't really moan if we get moved 80 miles to a cheap stadium can they while we are "dying"?

It is all well and good saying "yeah but that isnt us", "it is a different team". When you are banging on about fix football, sport being corrupt for letting teams move and then supporting and justifying other teams moves how does that look?

Either moving teams is wrong or it is right, especially when some of the people at the trust weren't shy at showing their opinion of people who went to Sixfields yet think it is ok to come on here giving everybody the propaganda about how the Wasps move is so good.

Wasps didn't need to move, if people believe we can survive as tenants at the Ricoh. Then by the same logic Wasps could have survived on a rental deal as tenants in one of the suitable London stadiums.

The arguments changes to whatever suits there pro wasps agenda at the time.

 

[lewys33]

Funny how most people thought Sisu paying the charity £2 million for their share was not a fair price (me included), yet now they are happy to accept they have sold it to a London/Wycombe based rugby club for a couple of quid more (me not included).

Baffles me.

 

[italiahorse]

Funny how most people thought Sisu paying the charity £2 million for their share was not a fair price (me included), yet now they are happy to accept they have sold it to a London/Wycombe based rugby club for a couple of quid more (me not included).

Baffles me.

I don't think it's the money as much as putting the asset in charge of a bunch of incompetent idiots.
I think the offer of £2M was a goodwill gesture on something they said was worth nothing.

 

[Nick]

Funny how most people thought Sisu paying the charity £2 million for their share was not a fair price (me included), yet now they are happy to accept they have sold it to a London/Wycombe based rugby club for a couple of quid more (me not included).

Baffles me.

Exactly, SISU were trying to rip them off by offering that, Wasps gave them that so surely they did rip them off? Were Higgs trying to rip SISU off with the 5 million then?

 

[Nick]

I don't think it's the money as much as putting the asset in charge of a bunch of incompetent idiots.
I think the offer of £2M was a goodwill gesture on something they said was worth nothing.

£2million is £2million, gesture of good will or not.

 

[italiahorse]

Exactly, SISU were trying to rip them off by offering that, Wasps gave them that so surely they did rip them off? Were Higgs trying to rip SISU off with the 5 million then?

I bet their share is worth more than £5M now

 

[lewys33]

£2 million from sisu, or £2.7 million from wasps after all the shit slinging, costs and bailout. I hope it was worth it for them I really do.

 

[martcov]

Previously we had a stadium in our city designed for CCFC but no more, the Ricoh now is primarily a rugby stadium. The football is a side activity who make them a little bit extra profit.

In terms of ACL priorities now it goes rugby, conferences/hotel/concerts/other events, football.

Yes. Why must it stay so? There has to be a deal there. If not, at least try and get one, and fail.... I would accept that, but just to write us off and go looking for a place to build a 30m stadium somewhere near here I cannot accept.

 

[Nick]

Yes. Why must it stay so? There has to be a deal there. If not, at least try and get one, and fail.... I would accept that, but just to write us off and go looking for a place to build a 30m stadium somewhere near here I cannot accept.

Do you think Wasps are just going to start handing things over?

 

[martcov]

£2million is £2million, gesture of good will or not.

No it isn't. 2 million in the bank and a sensible business plan is 2 million. 2 million and conditions and on the never never is just plain bullshit.

 

[martcov]

Wasps didn't need to move, if people believe we can survive as tenants at the Ricoh. Then by the same logic Wasps could have survived on a rental deal as tenants in one of the suitable London stadiums.

The arguments changes to whatever suits there pro wasps agenda at the time.

My argument stays the same. SISU said they are building a stadium, constantly and over a long period of time. Someone came in with cash and a sensible business plan and with a long term commitment to the Ricoh. No brainer. Why and how Wasps pulled that off is irrelevant. They are here and we have done nothing to show interest in a long term usage of the Ricoh. Couldn't care less about Wasps and their options. I am only interested in the future of CCFC. Talk about morals, franchises etc. until you're blue in the face. I don't care when it is Wasps problem. I want to see us, CCFC, at the Ricoh with a long term deal - be it rent, be it a part of the Wasps' group or whatever. For me, the clue is in the name - Coventry. We are Coventry and we stay in Coventry. Basta.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Yes. Why must it stay so? There has to be a deal there. If not, at least try and get one, and fail.... I would accept that, but just to write us off and go looking for a place to build a 30m stadium somewhere near here I cannot accept.

I agree with you to a point, if there is a deal to be done which can be considered good for the football club then absolutely try and do it. Personally I don't believe such a deal will be possible but by all means if it is then the club should be pushing hard for it.

Then if it fails they can at least they turn around and say we explored every possible to stay at the Ricoh but it wasn't viable, I imagine a lot of the reasonable fans would reluctantly accept that.

If they make no attempt to stay at the Ricoh, or show any signs of willingness to talk. Although it may end up the same end result they just open themselves to abuse from fans saying they didn't even try.

 

[martcov]

Do you think Wasps are just going to start handing things over?

no

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

My argument stays the same. SISU said they are building a stadium, constantly and over a long period of time. Someone came in with cash and a sensible business plan and with a long term commitment to the Ricoh. No brainer. Why and how Wasps pulled that off is irrelevant. They are here and we have done nothing to show interest in a long term usage of the Ricoh. Couldn't care less about Wasps and their options. I am only interested in the future of CCFC. Talk about morals, franchises etc. until you're blue in the face. I don't care when it is Wasps problem. I want to see us, CCFC, at the Ricoh with a long term deal - be it rent, be it a part of the Wasps' group or whatever. For me, the clue is in the name - Coventry. We are Coventry and we stay in Coventry. Basta.

I'm talking about those who defend the Wasps move on the basis that they would die staying in London, if they believe the Ricoh is viable for us on a rental agreement then this is a lie.

You don't care about Wasps so should have no reason to defend the move, so this shouldn't apply to you.


I want to see us at the Ricoh as well but not at the detriment to the football club, renting the Ricoh hasn't exactly worked brilliantly in the last 10 years has it. If we stay at the Ricoh on the current deal we will be a yoyo L1/championship club, not saying that a new stadium will be better which is why I'm so devastated at whats happening at the moment. Ownership of the Ricoh was vital and now that's gone I'm not sure how we go forward, I'm without hope at the moment.

 

[italiahorse]

Do you think Wasps are just going to start handing things over?

They (ACL) have already handed over some in the deal before Wasps took over it. That's still in place for the next 2 years with an option of another 2.
The deal to be talked about is the one after that. I believe TF has already asked for another year ? I have no idea what incomes have been handed over already.
This deal needs to be offered by Wasps to stop SISU planning and building a new stadium, which I believe will not be supported by enough fans to make it financially viable.

Maybe Sisu talk of the new stadium will put a little uncertainty in Wasps mind particularly as they may feel vulnerable at the moment.
However we (CCFC) are here for 4 years and Wasps will know how successful the move has been for them (as will Sisu?) and whether CCFC is crucial in that continued success.

In that respect a long term deal to keep CCFC at the Ricoh needs to be done now with Sisu telling Wasps what needs to be given from them to get us in the PL.
In theory they could give up all football related incomes as if the club moved they would not be getting them anyway. Unlikely but there are benefits of scale by having both clubs at the Ricoh. I think Wasps have already alluded to this but put a proviso in that Sisu need to be pragmatic about it. Something that might be difficult for them ?
It needs to explained to the fans as well as if there is a stand off by Wasps we can get behind Sisu plan for the new stadium.
However, Sisu need to show us the business plan for a new stadium that gets us to the PL as the majority fans will not blindly follow.

 

[italiahorse]

I'm talking about those who defend the Wasps move on the basis that they would die staying in London, if they believe the Ricoh is viable for us on a rental agreement then this is a lie.

You don't care about Wasps so should have no reason to defend the move, so this shouldn't apply to you.


I want to see us at the Ricoh as well but not at the detriment to the football club, renting the Ricoh hasn't exactly worked brilliantly in the last 10 years has it. If we stay at the Ricoh on the current deal we will be a yoyo L1/championship club, not saying that a new stadium will be better which is why I'm so devastated at whats happening at the moment. Ownership of the Ricoh was vital and now that's gone I'm not sure how we go forward, I'm without hope at the moment.

That's a good opinion but where are the figures?
The figures showing that staying at the Ricoh stops us getting to the PL. We don't even know what revenues we currently get.
The figures showing that a new stadium would get us there.
Location would also need to part of this assessment as Sixfields has at least shown that fans will not travel distance blindly.

Still believe that the team playing well for 2 seasons at the Ricoh, would carry us through the Championship by crowd incomes alone.

 

[Nick]

That's a good opinion but where are the figures?
The figures showing that staying at the Ricoh stops us getting to the PL. We don't even know what revenues we currently get.
The figures showing that a new stadium would get us there.
Location would also need to part of this assessment as Sixfields has at least shown that fans will not travel distance blindly.

Still believe that the team playing well for 2 seasons at the Ricoh, would carry us through the Championship by crowd incomes alone.

Where are the figures showing Wasps had to move or they would die that people keep going on about? If we can survive on a rental deal, why couldn't Wasps do it down south?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

That's a good opinion but where are the figures?
The figures showing that staying at the Ricoh stops us getting to the PL. We don't even know what revenues we currently get.

No figures, just what I've seen. At the Ricoh in the last 10 years we've been nowhere near generating the revenue to get back to the premier league, I think stupot posted a really good image the other week showing we were in the bottom 4 for revenue in the season we were relegated. Combine that with Fisher saying earlier in the season the current model doesn't work in the championship. So unless we have someone who is just going to pump money in and bank roll a charge to the premier league, it won't happen.

The figures showing that a new stadium would get us there.

I've already said in that post 'not saying that a new stadium will be better' but I'd rather be shit in a stadium we can call our own than shit in a Wasps branded stadium.

Location would also need to part of this assessment as Sixfields has at least shown that fans will not travel distance blindly.

True, hopefully it would be in the Coventry. Even if it's only short travel, by leaving the city you will probably lose the casual support

Still believe that the team playing well for 2 seasons at the Ricoh, would carry us through the Championship by crowd incomes alone.

Firstly you're relying on the crowds coming in which I'm not convinced it would, a couple of losses and they all lose interest again, most only turn up for the big games. If we got back into the championship I'm not even convinced we could even beat the 15-16k average we had in our relegation season.

Here's the image I was talking about, even at an average of 25-27k we'd only still probably come somewhere in the middle of that.

 

[stupot07]

They (ACL) have already handed over some in the deal before Wasps took over it. That's still in place for the next 2 years with an option of another 2.
The deal to be talked about is the one after that.

Pretty sure OSB has done a post analysing this, and it showed that the current deal which excludes car park actually brings in less than the previous deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[Steve.B50]

I'm increasingly concerned at how often I agree with Grendel recently but this is spot on.

SISU's plan worked perfectly apart from the fact that after distressing ACL someone else nipped in and got it on the cheap before SISU. If we had of kept paying the ridiculously high rent this wouldn't have been an option, similarly if we'd negotiated a new lower rent without moving out and / or purchased the Higgs half of ACL this wouldn't have happened.

Now that it has happened its very hard to see a positive for us or how we will be able to achieve long term sustainability with practically zero chance of ever owning even a stake in our ground.

 

[Steve.B50]

There isn't really is there? If people from the Trust can come out and justify wasps moving because they were "dying", they can't really moan if we get moved 80 miles to a cheap stadium can they while we are "dying"?

It is all well and good saying "yeah but that isnt us", "it is a different team". When you are banging on about fix football, sport being corrupt for letting teams move and then supporting and justifying other teams moves how does that look?

Either moving teams is wrong or it is right, especially when some of the people at the trust weren't shy at showing their opinion of people who went to Sixfields yet think it is ok to come on here giving everybody the propaganda about how the Wasps move is so good.

Nick
I have said this a few times, my thoughts and views are mine nothing to do with the stance of the Trust.
Am I supposed to say nothing and shut up or am I allowed to get involved in any of the debates?
I do not hide who I am and if I felt that my own personal views effected the Sky Blue Trust as a group then I will gladly step down.

Steve

 

[Nick]

Nick
I have said this a few times, my thoughts and views are mine nothing to do with the stance of the Trust.
Am I supposed to say nothing and shut up or am I allowed to get involved in any of the debates?
I do not hide who I am and if I felt that my own personal views effected the Sky Blue Trust as a group then I will gladly step down.

Steve

Of course, everybody is allowed their own views and opinions but step back and have a look and you can see that it does look a bit strange that you go to so much effort on here to justify wasps etc. This is not doubting anybody as a city fan before anybody comes out with that chestnut too Especially after you were so passionate about Sixfields and the people going in (which you are more than entitled to have an opinion on, again).

What is the stance of the trust? I assume they are against Wasps moving then?

 

[Steve.B50]

Of course, everybody is allowed their own views and opinions but step back and have a look and you can see that it does look a bit strange that you go to so much effort on here to justify wasps etc. This is not doubting anybody as a city fan before anybody comes out with that chestnut too Especially after you were so passionate about Sixfields and the people going in (which you are more than entitled to have an opinion on, again).

My own personal view and only mine.
Regardless of how we play or how bad it gets I will always follow CCFC home and almost every away game. I will also continue to go and watch Coventry Rugby when I can. To me the Sixfields episode was very different, we had a home, we still do. I feel that a total boycott would have got us home quicker, but we have to put that behind us and move forward.

 

[Flying Fokker]

Post deleted.......To pissed off to register comment.

 

[Sick Boy]

Why would any ccfc fan care if Wasps had died?

 

[Steve.B50]

I am a CCFC fan, if I were honest I do not care about the Wasps but I do care about first class Rugby and the possibility of it being played in our City.

 

[lewys33]

I am a CCFC fan, if I were honest I do not care about the Wasps but I do care about first class Rugby and the possibility of it being played in our City.

Which was possible because we have our own rugby team.