Would you go? (18 Viewers)

[dongonzalos]

Can safely say I have never said Wasps out, I prefer to focus on the people who gave people like me abuse about Sixfields who are getting into a frenzy now about Wasps I am certainly not going to start blaming Wasps for Johnson missing a penalty like some people manage to try and blame SISU.

That doesn't really make sense as most the people who felt you shouldn't go. Did Si because they believed non attendance was the quickest way to get us back.
It wasn't about franchising because you can't franchise in football?

 

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[chiefdave]

Some cretins would even support a Franchise league 1 club parachuted into Nuneaton..... I support a league 1 club as it is now - it's called Coventry and it plays in Coventry. I hope it stays that way and that Fisher's stadium fails - should it ever happen ( which it won't ).

Of course we'd all like any new stadium, if it's not imaginary, to be in the city but many posters on here claim there is no potential site in the city so, if you believe we need our own stadium, what do you suggest we do?

Nuneaton Town ( Borough ) is a lower league football club. We are a lower league football club. Wasps is a Rugby club. Why are you bothered about Wasps? Why aren't you bothered about us being parachuted into our neighbours town?

Can you seriously not see the difference between a side from London being moved to Coventry and SISU building a new stadium for us 3 or 4 miles from where the current one is.

Well the move greatly diminished our chances to ever get a stake in the Ricoh, whether that would be SISU controlled or under different ownership, which in turn means we will be a L1 club for an indefinite period as we don't have enough fans to support a championship club on ticket income alone.

If Wasps move is successful we are not getting any stake in the Ricoh in the next 250 years so you could argue the best plan is to take an action which will result in reduced income for Wasps. They could build a stadium only designed to last 5 - 10 years utilising temporary structures and hope that before the end of it's life Wasps are in trouble and have to sell. Its a risk of course but an option.

Wasps, CCC, Higgs, it doesn't matter who owns ACL, buying back our revenue streams is what the club needs.

What was the price we were given last time we tried that, £24m or something like that wasn't it?

Wasps are coming from a small ground in a small town to a big ground in a bigger town. We are going from a big ground - without even attempting to a deal with Wasps - to a smaller ground in a small town with an exsisting lower league team ( like we could soon be ). The End - of CCFC.

So if Villa suddenly go bust and we move there it will be fine? Bigger stadium, no existing team so by your logic it would be something you'd support.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I don't know, I'm not a Wasps fan so I don't know much about their situation. Wasps play rugby, CCFC play football. Finances are different in each sport.

Blaze have been this city's most successful club in recent years, that has been done without them owning the SkyDome.

What I do know is CCFC need revenue streams, not an asset on a balance sheet. Do you disagree?

I agree getting a good deal at the Ricoh would be better than a new stadium, can it happen now though? What would you consider a good deal? For me it would be something like.

A nominal rent something like 50k, includes matchday, a set number of non match days and somewhere to sell merchandise all year round
All revenue from the Ricoh on CCFC match day, every single penny of it. Unrestricted access to all areas of the Ricoh on matchday either for CCFC use or to set up own events for revenue
A cut of all sponsorship deals on the Ricoh, including naming rights. Not just pitch side advertising.
An agreed number of non matchdays solely for the use of football club to host things like JSB events, Christmas events, end of season awards etc. same rules about revenue and access to the Arena
Somewhere to sell CCFC merchandise at the Ricoh on match/non match days, maybe joint premises with the Wasps club shop?
Might have missed some things out but thats what I'm thinking off the top of my head.

What would you consider a reasonable deal? Would Wasps go for that?



And Wasps could have survived, they'd have just had to cut there playing budget accordingly. Something CCFC have had to because of renting the Ricoh.

 

[Nick]

Sorry by franchising I was generalising by moving teams etc. Would have thought a temporary move for just over a year wasn't as bad as franchising it up the country though surely? (Not that I am saying either was right)

Maybe if nobody went to Wasps then they would go bust and then CCFC would buy the Ricoh and we would all live happily ever after? I couldn't give a shit what they felt, it wasn't on abusing or having digs at other people and now they look like massive pricks by getting so excited by wasps moving in. Taking a lot of time out to come on here and say why there is nothing wrong with it. That irony seems to be missed by most.

 

[chiefdave]

Surely if the council say it is good, it is good?

If the council give it the OK then I guess there's nothing to stop SISU going ahead but it doesn't' mean it's right. If any local club, or anyone else for that matter, gives a valid reason that a ground for us shouldn't be built at any particular location then the right thing to do would be take that into consideration. SISU may choose to ignore it but as fans we can all make our on decisions and choose if we support any new stadium project or not.

 

[bigfatronssba]

I agree getting a good deal at the Ricoh would be better than a new stadium, can it happen now though? What would you consider a good deal? For me it would be something like.

A nominal rent something like 50k, includes matchday, a set number of non match days and somewhere to sell merchandise all year round
All revenue from the Ricoh on CCFC match day, every single penny of it. Unrestricted access to all areas of the Ricoh on matchday either for CCFC use or to set up own events for revenue
A cut of all sponsorship deals on the Ricoh, including naming rights. Not just pitch side advertising.
An agreed number of non matchdays solely for the use of football club to host things like JSB events, Christmas events, end of season awards etc. same rules about revenue and access to the Arena
Somewhere to sell CCFC merchandise at the Ricoh on match/non match days, maybe joint premises with the Wasps club shop?
Might have missed some things out but thats what I'm thinking off the top of my head.

What would you consider a reasonable deal? Would Wasps go for that?



And Wasps could have survived, they'd have just had to cut there playing budget accordingly. Something CCFC have had to because of renting the Ricoh.

If the club had that deal I see no benefit that a new ground could give above and beyond that. I am sure the club could buy back into those things for much less than the cost of a new ground.

 

[Nick]

If the council give it the OK then I guess there's nothing to stop SISU going ahead but it doesn't' mean it's right. If any local club, or anyone else for that matter, gives a valid reason that a ground for us shouldn't be built at any particular location then the right thing to do would be take that into consideration. SISU may choose to ignore it but as fans we can all make our on decisions and choose if we support any new stadium project or not.

Exactly and it it does happen, it is down to SISU to make as many fans choose the decision to go. If they have the same shite PR as Sixfields it would be death. They would literally need to go round picking people up from their houses and pulling out all of the stops. A personality / PR transplant if possible.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Of course we'd all like any new stadium, if it's not imaginary, to be in the city but many posters on here claim there is no potential site in the city so, if you believe we need our own stadium, what do you suggest we do?



Can you seriously not see the difference between a side from London being moved to Coventry and SISU building a new stadium for us 3 or 4 miles from where the current one is.



If Wasps move is successful we are not getting any stake in the Ricoh in the next 250 years so you could argue the best plan is to take an action which will result in reduced income for Wasps. They could build a stadium only designed to last 5 - 10 years utilising temporary structures and hope that before the end of it's life Wasps are in trouble and have to sell. Its a risk of course but an option.



What was the price we were given last time we tried that, £24m or something like that wasn't it?



So if Villa suddenly go bust and we move there it will be fine? Bigger stadium, no existing team so by your logic it would be something you'd support.

That was around the value that compass paid for exclusivity on catering rights. That contract had a certain amount of time to run, the closer to the end of that contract the lower its value.

 

[dongonzalos]

Sorry by franchising I was generalising by moving teams etc. Would have thought a temporary move for just over a year wasn't as bad as franchising it up the country though surely? (Not that I am saying either was right)

Maybe if nobody went to Wasps then they would go bust and then CCFC would buy the Ricoh and we would all live happily ever after? I couldn't give a shit what they felt, it wasn't on abusing or having digs at other people and now they look like massive pricks by getting so excited by wasps moving in. Taking a lot of time out to come on here and say why there is nothing wrong with it. That irony seems to be missed by most.

Probably missed by most because its not really there.

I don't feel you should have gone to Sixfields. However I didn't and would not abuse you over it. It was your choice like it was mine not to go.

I won't be going to watch Wasps. I merely understand why the Council had no choice but to take the Wasps deal. I wish it had been us not Wasps. However I don't blame Wasps for our situation.

I have been impressed by the way Wasps have gone about their business and I don't mind highlighting it on here. As I know our owners read these forums. I hope they get a bit of inspiration from the way Wasps engage their fans and try and get the fans in.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Sorry by franchising I was generalising by moving teams etc. Would have thought a temporary move for just over a year wasn't as bad as franchising it up the country though surely? (Not that I am saying either was right)

Maybe if nobody went to Wasps then they would go bust and then CCFC would buy the Ricoh and we would all live happily ever after? I couldn't give a shit what they felt, it wasn't on abusing or having digs at other people and now they look like massive pricks by getting so excited by wasps moving in. Taking a lot of time out to come on here and say why there is nothing wrong with it. That irony seems to be missed by most.

Your sounding like a child. Very few people have said there is nothing wrong with Wasps moving.

Your constantly making snide remarks at anyone who isn't rabid anti Wasps.

 

[chiefdave]

If the club had that deal I see no benefit that a new ground could give above and beyond that. I am sure the club could buy back into those things for much less than the cost of a new ground.

What we really need to know is what levels of income other similar sized teams to us receive from their stadiums. The Ricoh is an exception with the exhibition halls etc. If we can get a deal that matches the revenues someone like Southampton got when in L1 that would increase in the Championship and PL then a rental deal is viable. if we can't get a deal equivalent to other sides then we will always be at a disadvantage.

 

[Nick]

Your sounding like a child. Very few people have said there is nothing wrong with Wasps moving.

Your constantly making snide remarks at anyone who isn't rabid anti Wasps.

Surely by going to the game it is supporting it? It is supporting franchising sport isn't it?

 

[chiefdave]

That was around the value that compass paid for exclusivity on catering rights. That contract had a certain amount of time to run, the closer to the end of that contract the lower its value.

I didn't mean what Compass paid, what was the amount Chris West offered to sell matchday revenues back to the club for?

 

[Macca]

Skipping the in laws visit this week? *



*I don't know them, but couldn't resist [/




QUOTE]

Are you sure you don't know them :-D

 

[dongonzalos]

Surely by going to the game it is supporting it? It is supporting franchising sport isn't it?

If you are against franchising in any sport then go to the wasps game in my book you are helping feed the problem you want stamped out.

 

[bigfatronssba]

What we really need to know is what levels of income other similar sized teams to us receive from their stadiums. The Ricoh is an exception with the exhibition halls etc. If we can get a deal that matches the revenues someone like Southampton got when in L1 that would increase in the Championship and PL then a rental deal is viable. if we can't get a deal equivalent to other sides then we will always be at a disadvantage.

Income streams for the club though don't begin and end with the stadium. As I posted before there are plenty of ways for the club to generate income outside of the ground. Why haven't they bought Rowleys Green Social and made it into a matchday supporters bar? Why don't they buy the land of car park C and build a hotel on there? The sheer narrow vision of those at the club is very frustrating.

 

[torchomatic]

That's a fallacy though isn't it? Or someone was lying to us. Lucas et al told us that ACL was profitable. Coventry City "fan" PWKH said that only 9 per cent of their income was related to CCFC, so no they didn't need to sell. There certainly was a choice. If their "we love CCFC" rhetoric was said in honesty then ACL/CCC could have sat on the Ricoh and either tried to deal with SISU or just waited until they left and then dealt with the new owners. But no, they decided to hamstring all opportunity for CCFC to own their own ground in the City was giving a lease of 250 years to an out-of-town franchise.

SISU certainly have shafted CCFC, but so have CCC and ACL. The lot of them are a fucking disgrace.

I won't be going to watch Wasps. I merely understand why the Council had no choice but to take the Wasps deal. I wish it had been us not Wasps. However I don't blame Wasps for our situation.

 

[Nick]

Probably missed by most because its not really there.

I don't feel you should have gone to Sixfields. However I didn't and would not abuse you over it. It was your choice like it was mine not to go.

I won't be going to watch Wasps. I merely understand why the Council had no choice but to take the Wasps deal. I wish it had been us not Wasps. However I don't blame Wasps for our situation.

I have been impressed by the way Wasps have gone about their business and I don't mind highlighting it on here. As I know our owners read these forums. I hope they get a bit of inspiration from the way Wasps engage their fans and try and get the fans in.

And I respect that, the same as I respect LAST, BHSB, Wingy, Michael and others who also didn't agree with Sixfields but came straight out about Wasps saying how wrong it was. The same as I feel sorry for the Wasps fans to make the journey but if they want to I hope they enjoy it.

I don't blame Wasps for this shit we are in, I am not running around shouting how it is Wasps fault we sold Callum Wilson or anything like that. I don't even blame Wasps for buying a stadium at a cut price. However, when we have people coming on here going on about how great this move is after they were slagging everybody off for supporting their own team kind of grates a little bit after a while What makes it worse are the ones who don't go to city games now, have dodgy SISU out photoshop images as their profiles, abused anybody who mentioned sixfields but now go on about how great wasps are.....

I think they are all full of shit, Council, SISU and Wasps. I think they are all looking after themselves in all of this without caring about the club. It isn't in Wasps job description to care about CCFC so shouldn't really bother giving it that spiel I don't think. The same as the council.

If the council had said from the start "SISU are fucking us over, we are going to be screwed, we need to do something here" rather than the press game playing with how much they love the club and how wrong it is to move the team away (to play on the fans heart strings) then this move wouldn't make them look so bad would it.

CCC were wrong to bring the emotional shit into it and the spin about how good a business it is , SISU have been wrong full stop so far.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Surely by going to the game it is supporting it? It is supporting franchising sport isn't it?

Yes it is.

Just like anyone who has ever been to Arsenal.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

If the club had that deal I see no benefit that a new ground could give above and beyond that. I am sure the club could buy back into those things for much less than the cost of a new ground.

Neither could I, if such a deal as I described is available then the club should absolutely try to do it. Seeing as the Higgs 50% of ACL was sold for 2.7 million, I'd imagine the cost to buy into these things would be much less than this and much less than building a new stadium.

You think Wasps will go for that?

SISU owe it to the fans to try and make the Ricoh work, even if the chance of it working is 1%. If it works great, if Wasps tell us to piss off and theres no way we would get that deal then the fans can get on board with the new stadium and put pressure for it to be in Coventry.

 

[bigfatronssba]

I didn't mean what Compass paid, what was the amount Chris West offered to sell matchday revenues back to the club for?

I think he was basing that value on what Compass paid.

 

[chiefdave]

Income streams for the club though don't begin and end with the stadium. As I posted before there are plenty of ways for the club to generate income outside of the ground. Why haven't they bought Rowleys Green Social and made it into a matchday supporters bar? Why don't they buy the land of car park C and build a hotel on there? The sheer narrow vision of those at the club is very frustrating.

Of course they could open any business but most football clubs aren't doing that so to compare how any offer from Wasps stacks up you would need to be able to compare it with other clubs.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Income streams for the club though don't begin and end with the stadium. As I posted before there are plenty of ways for the club to generate income outside of the ground. Why haven't they bought Rowleys Green Social and made it into a matchday supporters bar? Why don't they buy the land of car park C and build a hotel on there? The sheer narrow vision of those at the club is very frustrating.

I like your thinking outside the box about the club buying things around the Ricoh but how many people can fit in the Rowleys Green Social, it would certainly have to be expanded and devloped for it to be worthwhile? I know I'd certainly use it if I knew my money was going to the football.

 

[torchomatic]

I wonder if Solihull Barons fans felt the same?

One inch over the border and it's an big fat no from me. It's no different to the FA knocking down Wembley and building it in Gretna Green.

 

[torchomatic]

The new Trust motto:

Etiam Mr Eastwood, non Mr Eastwood tres Mr crumenas Eastwood

No, it's Ricoh or nothing for me. It's our home.

 

[Macca]

I ve never been to Nuneaton, fml

 

[The Gentleman]

That's a fallacy though isn't it? Or someone was lying to us. Lucas et al told us that ACL was profitable. Coventry City "fan" PWKH said that only 9 per cent of their income was related to CCFC, so no they didn't need to sell. There certainly was a choice. If their "we love CCFC" rhetoric was said in honesty then ACL/CCC could have sat on the Ricoh and either tried to deal with SISU or just waited until they left and then dealt with the new owners. But no, they decided to hamstring all opportunity for CCFC to own their own ground in the City was giving a lease of 250 years to an out-of-town franchise.

SISU certainly have shafted CCFC, but so have CCC and ACL. The lot of them are a fucking disgrace.

Remind us again of the interest Sisu showed (and I'm talking about serious interest) in buying the Ricoh at any point in the 7 years before Wasps rocked up? Leave the last offer out as they were forced and knew that they had no chance because of veto's etc? I think ACL/CCC would have got bed sores due to sitting on the Ricoh and waiting for Sisu to rock up with an offer but you and others can keep talking about we should own at least 50% instead of Wasps, but the simple fact remains Sisu didn't and don't want to pay for it so all of this Wasps/CCC/ACL have ruined any chance of us owning the Ricoh is complete bollocks. You can say "how can you say that as you don't know" but I think the last 7 years speak fucking volumes.

 

[martcov]

Of course we'd all like any new stadium, if it's not imaginary, to be in the city but many posters on here claim there is no potential site in the city so, if you believe we need our own stadium, what do you suggest we do?



Can you seriously not see the difference between a side from London being moved to Coventry and SISU building a new stadium for us 3 or 4 miles from where the current one is.



If Wasps move is successful we are not getting any stake in the Ricoh in the next 250 years so you could argue the best plan is to take an action which will result in reduced income for Wasps. They could build a stadium only designed to last 5 - 10 years utilising temporary structures and hope that before the end of it's life Wasps are in trouble and have to sell. Its a risk of course but an option.



What was the price we were given last time we tried that, £24m or something like that wasn't it?



So if Villa suddenly go bust and we move there it will be fine? Bigger stadium, no existing team so by your logic it would be something you'd support.

I believe we don't need our own stadium, or rather we can't afford one. I think we should be offering Wasps a decent return on what they paid for a share in the Ricoh. We have to be in Cov and we will never build a new stadium in Cov under SISU.


I cannot compare a Rugby club's move - with the understanding of many of it fans - to a venue with potential, to a football club moving to a venue with less potential and against the wishes of many of it's fans.

We cannot take any action which reduces Wasps income as we are not involved in any way.

if Villa go bust and we moved there, I wouldn't support it. I have posted enough times that it says Coventry in the name and we should play in Cov. Worst case scenario a green field site nearby, but not in another town. That is franchising according to some on here and I am against franchising in football. Franchising in Ice hockey, American football, rugby - not really interested. Other sports have another attitude and it's up to them.

 

[skybluericoh]

What the fuck are you babbling about? isn't it the case that most on here have said they couldn't give a shit about Wasps and only care about Cov. Can probably count on one hand the posters on here who have been happy about Wasps moving here, Yet you and others spout endless crap about them being here and point aimless fingers at none existent posters who are happy about it.

I know exactly what you mean, I'm not happy that WASPs have ACL, even more unhappy that SISU, instead of paying a fair price for it, tried to get it on the cheap. They thought we are the only interested party. The only football club in the area that would want/ need the Ricoh so they had an opinion of market value below the owners of ACL. WASPs came in and matched that market value and got it. For me not happy that they have done it, but the blame is squarely on the shoulders of SISU.

Now our owners demonstrate that the have no intention of building a new ground by going back to court. i for one have had enough, I didn't go yesterday, won't be going any time soon now either, and I'm glad I didn't buy a season ticket. Not my club any more, in fact WASPs have done more to get me interested recently, not that I will be going to any Rugger games, but more chance of that than CCFC at the moment. VERY sad times.

 

[RFC]

And I respect that, the same as I respect LAST, BHSB, Wingy, Michael and others who also didn't agree with Sixfields but came straight out about Wasps saying how wrong it was. The same as I feel sorry for the Wasps fans to make the journey but if they want to I hope they enjoy it.

I don't blame Wasps for this shit we are in, I am not running around shouting how it is Wasps fault we sold Callum Wilson or anything like that. I don't even blame Wasps for buying a stadium at a cut price. However, when we have people coming on here going on about how great this move is after they were slagging everybody off for supporting their own team kind of grates a little bit after a while What makes it worse are the ones who don't go to city games now, have dodgy SISU out photoshop images as their profiles, abused anybody who mentioned sixfields but now go on about how great wasps are.....

I think they are all full of shit, Council, SISU and Wasps. I think they are all looking after themselves in all of this without caring about the club. It isn't in Wasps job description to care about CCFC so shouldn't really bother giving it that spiel I don't think. The same as the council.

If the council had said from the start "SISU are fucking us over, we are going to be screwed, we need to do something here" rather than the press game playing with how much they love the club and how wrong it is to move the team away (to play on the fans heart strings) then this move wouldn't make them look so bad would it.

CCC were wrong to bring the emotional shit into it and the spin about how good a business it is , SISU have been wrong full stop so far.

With the greatest respect Nick I as mere supporter have never been in the position (& never will be) to choose or select who owns our club. The same applies to CCC who've deceived and stitched-up my football club CCFC.

Recall many owners over the years but can't name many (if any, good ones), however I think the 'blame game' is futile! ALL parties and I stress ALL parties are guilty in this debacle and none can come out with any credit. Some maybe more guilty than others but it's a totally senseless debate.

As for Sixfields and the abuse received for attending to back our Manager & his Staff & Team, can't believe a the hypocrites who've now welcomed and embraced WASPS!

Under the current circumstances I no longer enjoy going to the Ricoh (it's not our HOME & NEVER has been, always just been tenants), key to the future is owning our own stadium & controlling ALL revenues (including catering & parking), the sooner we move out to a new stadium the better!

It will take as long as it takes, can't influence that but I'll continue to support & get behind this manager and the team PUSB

 

[chiefdave]

With the greatest respect Nick I as mere supporter have never been in the position (& never will be) to choose or select who owns our club. The same applies to CCC who've deceived and stitched-up my football club CCFC.

Some people would have you believe CCC were instrumental in SISU being given preference over other bidders. Don't think we'll ever know if there is any truth in that.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Some people would have you believe CCC were instrumental in SISU being given preference over other bidders. Don't think we'll ever know if there is any truth in that.

tbf unlikely. Here's the quote at the time:

City council leader Ken Taylor revealed that two other "derisory" bids had been received from two other firms.

One, called Sisu, had offered £15million.

The other was from a firm called Shapiro, which offered £26million but wanted the club to pay off its debts and the city council to give it a longer lease on the Ricoh Arena and some spare land to the north of the site.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/sky-blues-face-bleak-future-3105889

Don't think the mood from CCC has ever been pro-SISU.

 

[chiefdave]

tbf unlikely. Here's the quote at the time:

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/sky-blues-face-bleak-future-3105889

Interesting reading that article. At the time wasn't the rumour that Manhattan met with CCC and decided they couldn't work with them. It's laughable now to think the Shaprio bid was labeled derisory by the council as it would mean CCC writing off £4m and Higgs not getting every penny back, not to mention they dared to ask for a lease extension and some land to develop!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Interesting reading that article. At the time wasn't the rumour that Manhattan met with CCC and decided they couldn't work with them. It's laughable now to think the Shaprio bid was labeled derisory by the council as it would mean CCC writing off £4m and Higgs not getting every penny back, not to mention they dared to ask for a lease extension and some land to develop!

It is indeed interesting. Also puts the lie to the question 'who would be interested' as it shows *somebody* is always interested.

What SISU did well was maneuvering themselves into a position where they were seen as the 'only option'. It's never the case...

Also shows a 'longer lease' and better deal for use of the Ricoh never on offer previously.

It didn't need to be while the football club played soft, of course.

 

[martcov]

With the greatest respect Nick I as mere supporter have never been in the position (& never will be) to choose or select who owns our club. The same applies to CCC who've deceived and stitched-up my football club CCFC.

Recall many owners over the years but can't name many (if any, good ones), however I think the 'blame game' is futile! ALL parties and I stress ALL parties are guilty in this debacle and none can come out with any credit. Some maybe more guilty than others but it's a totally senseless debate.

As for Sixfields and the abuse received for attending to back our Manager & his Staff & Team, can't believe a the hypocrites who've now welcomed and embraced WASPS!

Under the current circumstances I no longer enjoy going to the Ricoh (it's not our HOME & NEVER has been, always just been tenants), key to the future is owning our own stadium & controlling ALL revenues (including catering & parking), the sooner we move out to a new stadium the better!

It will take as long as it takes, can't influence that but I'll continue to support & get behind this manager and the team PUSB

Yes enjoy your stadium in someone else's town. That will be really homely.