skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Edit: apologies, that was a bit uncalled for. I retract it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
No problem
No problem
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Excellent news that the Ricoh is back on the market and available for us to buy.
I was under the impression that they played in Falmer but seeing as you're just going to ignore any factual evidence that doesn't support your argument it's not really an issue.
Are you deliberately missing the point? Anyone in Nuneaton or Bedworth who want to support us and come to our games can do so quite easily now. Going 10mins down the road is not going to suddenly give us crowds of 30K. Prior to their move people from Coventry were't going 10 mins down the road to watch Wasps, it's a totally different situation.
I thought Wasps had to move here as they would go out of business without 365 day revenues? Seems odd they need that but we're fine renting. What happens if at the end of the 2+2 deal Wasps say the rent is £1.2m a year again?
So we should be fine moving anywhere you can pick up CWR.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
It does not matter so much what people on this site say, it is what the 'fair weather' fan, y'know the ones who often get slagged off o this forum for not being committed enough actually do! If they don't like it, they won't go, they'll spend their leisure £ on other entertainment.
If a new stadium is in the wrong place (which in my view definitely includes anywhere N of the M6) then it will be an unutterable flop, lets face it there was enough bitching about the Arena site, Bermuda park is even further out of town.
Nick
Administrator
I agree about that, that is why I think SISU would need a PR transplant. Yes the arena is just down the road and we have dog shit PR / Marketing now. If we moved a couple of miles further but then had decent PR could it make up for it possibly? That is a big if too.
They could hand everybody crossing under the M6 a pair of white socks, a mullett wig and one of those things you put in your mouth to make it look like you have 1 tooth to get into the spirit. (thats a joke)
Let's say they did the stuff wasps did and a bit more for starters (which should have been done at Sixfields anyway)
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
And that will be down to SISU so god help us! If they present a coherent argument for the new stadium and put everything in place to make the new stadium accessible and welcoming (dare I say it look at what Wasps have done) then I would expect the majority of the 8K who are turning up now to go 10 mins down the road.
However if they do it in their usual style of bizarre statements and pissing everyone off it would be a different story, but even then it would be less the location and more a continuation of the downward spiral of an ever shrinking fan base.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
executive, Tim Fisher, insists they do not regret failing to buy the Ricoh, saying they could not agree to taking it on, as Wasps have done, not only for £5.4m but with the council’s £14m loan on the stadium still to pay. Fisher
I agree with this, but also remember how much the regular fan has been ground down in all this.
My dad has been going for 50 years, he's had a ST for over 40 years. He (and myself) refused to go Northampton, and he therefore missed 20+ home games in 1 season, compared to about 6 in the previous 40 years. He's already said on numerous occasions that if a new ground is built outside the city then he's done. I suspect he's not alone in that......
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I find that a very odd stance to take. If SISU came out and clearly evidenced that it is the only option for the survival of the club and the new stadium will be as close as possible to the city boundary why would supporters refuse to go. Just seems odd to me.
Nick
Administrator
And that is exactly the type of person if this happens SISU should be pulling out all of the stops to keep, rather than just expecting him to turn up, they should be pretty much making every fan like that feel like a VIP and offering the world to them when they go to games.
Get them all into a big room, say this is why we need to be here, this is what we are going to do, this is why we value fans, this is what we are going to do for the fans, we know it is just outside coventry so because of that we are going to do x and y to make it easier.
Look how Italia felt on here because he went to a buffet...
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Excellent news that the Ricoh is back on the market and available for us to buy.
Why do we need to buy?
I was under the impression that they played in Falmer but seeing as you're just going to ignore any factual evidence that doesn't support your argument it's not really an issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falmer_Stadium#Plans Planning permission was given by the unitary authority of Brighton and Hove in June 2002, with the intention of the stadium being ready for the 2005–06 season.[SUP][4][/SUP] The plans for the stadium were fought by neighbouring Lewes District Council and local residents. While the stadium lies completely within Brighton and Hove, part of the north-east of the site is in Lewes. Bennet's field as it is known is now used for parking.
Are you deliberately missing the point? Anyone in Nuneaton or Bedworth who want to support us and come to our games can do so quite easily now. Going 10mins down the road is not going to suddenly give us crowds of 30K. Prior to their move people from Coventry were't going 10 mins down the road to watch Wasps, it's a totally different situation.
So again I ask, at what distance does franchising become wrong?
I thought Wasps had to move here as they would go out of business without 365 day revenues? Seems odd they need that but we're fine renting. What happens if at the end of the 2+2 deal Wasps say the rent is £1.2m a year again?
I thought Wasps were a rugby club with a different financial model to a football club? We don't wait until the end of a 2+2 year deal to renegotiate, that's the point.
So we should be fine moving anywhere you can pick up CWR.
Deliberately missed my point on this one.
Why do we need to buy?
I was under the impression that they played in Falmer but seeing as you're just going to ignore any factual evidence that doesn't support your argument it's not really an issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falmer_Stadium#Plans Planning permission was given by the unitary authority of Brighton and Hove in June 2002, with the intention of the stadium being ready for the 2005–06 season.[SUP][4][/SUP] The plans for the stadium were fought by neighbouring Lewes District Council and local residents. While the stadium lies completely within Brighton and Hove, part of the north-east of the site is in Lewes. Bennet's field as it is known is now used for parking.
Are you deliberately missing the point? Anyone in Nuneaton or Bedworth who want to support us and come to our games can do so quite easily now. Going 10mins down the road is not going to suddenly give us crowds of 30K. Prior to their move people from Coventry were't going 10 mins down the road to watch Wasps, it's a totally different situation.
So again I ask, at what distance does franchising become wrong?
I thought Wasps had to move here as they would go out of business without 365 day revenues? Seems odd they need that but we're fine renting. What happens if at the end of the 2+2 deal Wasps say the rent is £1.2m a year again?
I thought Wasps were a rugby club with a different financial model to a football club? We don't wait until the end of a 2+2 year deal to renegotiate, that's the point.
So we should be fine moving anywhere you can pick up CWR.
Deliberately missed my point on this one.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
This has already been mentioned to day and I don't think it in any way answers the question I want an answer to. I want to know if CCC offered CCFC the same deal they offered Wasps. I can't imagine Fisher giving any other answer at this point. What comment did you expect "I've spectacularly messed this up, Joy is furious with me, I have no idea how we're ever going to get out of the mess I've got us into".
Odd though that apparently Fisher never tells the truth but we should in no way consider this statement to be anything other than 100% accurate.
Personally I hope he's right about ACL and Wasps end up going back to London with their tail (wings?) between their legs and the Ricoh becomes available again.
He's basically just so fed up of everything that's happened, it would just be one step too far. He also thinks (like the vast majority) that the new ground talk is complete bollocks.
The damage has been done Nick, it's nothing to do with distance, we go to all the away games. It's the culmination of the situation we find ourselves in and how much the club has fallen under this regime.
Nick
Administrator
Thats why if they did move to say Bermuda they would need to find a pretty good PR / Marketing budget. I don't mean to post on forums or write press articles, to speak directly to the fans.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Do you think Wasps are going to give us 365 day revenue at the Ricoh?
You can't put a figure on it due to the geographical layout of the country. You use common sense which seems to be a difficulty for a lot of people on here. If we moved to Leicester, Birmingham, Wolverhampton etc that would be a franchise move. You would be completely removing the club from it's locality. Clearly moving a bit further up the same road is not the same.
Rugby has a salary cap does it not. How are all these other rugby teams surveying that ground share. It's not uncommon in rugby and seems to work which would indicate they don't need 365 revenues. How many football clubs rent a stadium where they are a secondary priority and they receive no revenues from non-matchday events?
We went to the forum in the summer before the Northampton move and Dad was ready to kill Fisher by the end of it.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
My Dad's the same, he's stopped going and has very little interest now. But are they people who would not be going anyway. A debatable point I would suggest. If done right and presented as a bright future for the club (with evidence not just soundbites) could people be persuaded back?
Nick
Administrator
I wouldn't class him as good PR though to be fair
What Wasps have done is pretty much standard, SISU should literally be pulling out all of the stops to get people there if it happens. If it is like Sixfields and they expect people to just turn up then it won't work I don't think. If however they do it properly, it could do.I don't mean having people decide on the colour of curtains, I mean having a fair few people asking "If we moved to bermuda because we dont have much choice, what would stop you from going". Actually speak to the fans, properly engage.
My dad is still going though, we both got our ST's back when we came back to the Ricoh this season, and as I said we still do all the away games. We are amongst a relatively small number left who still do pretty much every game. If he's thinking like this, god knows how the casuals will be thinking.
I think his generation would find a move a lot harder to accept than younger fans.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The casuals are a weird one to gauge. Maybe the 30K that turn up for Chelsea / JPT final / Gills game would all turn up for the first game at a new ground. If they did then it would be up to the club to retain them. Losing supporters is never good but if you for example lose 5K while gaining 10K new fans you're better off. That's why the PR and marketing would be so vital and the clubs track record there isn't great to say the least.
Nick
Administrator
I do think the older generation would also appreciate the club actually giving a shit about them, engaging with them too wouldn't they? Not saying your dad is old but one little thing for example could be care homes. People go on about schools, young football teams etc but why not have a couple of buses go around the care homes in cov to pick the old boys up and go to a game. When they get there give them a cup of tea and put them in a box (they are usually empty anyway). Get a couple of the older players in there from their time they will remember to have a chat with them, have a couple of the current players who are maybe injured / suspended / after the game to pop in and say hello and shake their hand and have a bit of a chat with them too.
How much would a couple of buses cost, how much would it cost in a couple of boxes that were empty anyway? How much would a few cups of tea and a few cheeky pints cost?
Then think how chuffed would the people stuck in care homes be with that? Make it a weekly thing (obviously the club couldnt do it for free every game, would be great if they could) and think how these 40 - 50 older blokes have kids, their kids have kids. Their sons and daughters think it is amazing what the club is doing to make their parents happy, their kids want to go too with their grandad / great grandkids. The club could then potentially get 3 generations going to games.
People always say "but other fans will moan because they dont get it". I know I wouldn't moan because an 85 year old fella who is stuck in a home all week gets a free bus and beer at a city game and has a great time because I didn't get a free beer too.
There really is so much stuff they could do, for not much money at all. It is endless, and it makes me wonder what the marketing / PR team at CCFC do.
I went to the JSB party, the club and the volunteers did a fantastic job. I have told a couple of people about it, one of the parents is a Man Utd fan and is considering signing his lad up for the JSB's and taking him to a few games at the Ricoh (as the young lad would be free) as he is football mad and thought what I told him was great about how the players were all there etc.
I might put all of these ideas into a book and sell it to SISU
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Do you think Wasps are going to give us 365 day revenue at the Ricoh?
No, but I think they might sell us access to matchday revenue, plus an opportunity for CCFC to host events themselves there. Wasps have a £14m loan to pay to CCC. I think a few million up front off Sisu would be very enticing for them
You can't put a figure on it due to the geographical layout of the country. You use common sense which seems to be a difficulty for a lot of people on here. If we moved to Leicester, Birmingham, Wolverhampton etc that would be a franchise move. You would be completely removing the club from it's locality. Clearly moving a bit further up the same road is not the same.
Yes I agree that you cant put a figure on it. I would say its what area a location feels like it belongs to. Up to the M6 feels like Coventry, even Exhall feels like Coventry, Bermuda feels like Nuneaton. A town of with a population of over 80k. It is not Coventry.
Rugby has a salary cap does it not. How are all these other rugby teams surveying that ground share. It's not uncommon in rugby and seems to work which would indicate they don't need 365 revenues. How many football clubs rent a stadium where they are a secondary priority and they receive no revenues from non-matchday events?
I don't know. But at least you agree that Rugby and Football operate on a different financial model. As I have said above the club needs to buy back its revenue streams.
No, but I think they might sell us access to matchday revenue, plus an opportunity for CCFC to host events themselves there. Wasps have a £14m loan to pay to CCC. I think a few million up front off Sisu would be very enticing for them
You can't put a figure on it due to the geographical layout of the country. You use common sense which seems to be a difficulty for a lot of people on here. If we moved to Leicester, Birmingham, Wolverhampton etc that would be a franchise move. You would be completely removing the club from it's locality. Clearly moving a bit further up the same road is not the same.
Yes I agree that you cant put a figure on it. I would say its what area a location feels like it belongs to. Up to the M6 feels like Coventry, even Exhall feels like Coventry, Bermuda feels like Nuneaton. A town of with a population of over 80k. It is not Coventry.
Rugby has a salary cap does it not. How are all these other rugby teams surveying that ground share. It's not uncommon in rugby and seems to work which would indicate they don't need 365 revenues. How many football clubs rent a stadium where they are a secondary priority and they receive no revenues from non-matchday events?
I don't know. But at least you agree that Rugby and Football operate on a different financial model. As I have said above the club needs to buy back its revenue streams.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Is that any different to nuneaton and Bedworth borough council and bulkington?
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bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
So the options are we spend a few million on getting matchday revenue rights at the Ricoh, or we spend circa £30 million for matchday revenue rights at a new ground?
What Wasps paid is irrelevant now.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Is that any different to nuneaton and Bedworth borough council and bulkington?
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It would be like the Ricoh being in Coventry and car park C being in Nuneaton & Bedworth.
Nick
Administrator
It isn't really though, especially with how everybody was going on about SISU ripping off the council and higgs but it is fine for Wasps to try and sell just our own matchday rights for what they paid for the whole stadium?
Like I said in the other thread, the trust should do an open letter to Wasps to see what they are willing to offer. Get it out there in the public domain. If Wasps are going to offer an amazing deal to the club then on the other hand it makes that hard to turn down doesn't it?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Why £30m, Bournemouth built a new ground for well under £10m. That's why SISU need to present a business case. Show me that a move to a new stadium is the best proposition and I have no problem with backing it.
Nick
Administrator
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Its irrelevant in that it isn't going to affect what CCFC have to pay to buy back the revenue rights.
Nothing wrong with trying the open letter idea, but really it is the clubs owners that should be being pro active in this.
I thought they did not want to have half of a company where they could get left with all the debt
BUT CCC would not provide the terms of the WASPS deal so SISU put in an offer based on worst case and subject to clarification on WASPS deal
Nick
Administrator
Surely if they did want to buy just their own matchday revenue rights it would be reflected by what Wasps paid? How would people feel if Wasps turned round and said "yeah you can have it for 10 million".
Would people be angry with SISU for not paying it? Would people think Wasps were ripping the club off?
CCC refused to tell the Receiver the details of the WASPS deal.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
I would expect Wasps to ask for at least market value. At this point I must add I have no idea how much that would be.
I would be angry if Sisu used the same negotiating tactics as in the past, pissing off Wasps, and then ended up having to pay millions for a new ground just to get what they could have had for a fraction of the price.
Likewise if Wasps took the piss with what they were asking I would be angry with them for that.
Basically I would be angry at whichever side wasn't reasonable or sensible. (although I am that apathetic with it all now it would be very limited anger).
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I know we don't know how much. But what would you seem an acceptable level rent and how much for matchday revenue?
I
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