Wasps in talks to takeover Ricoh (28 Viewers)

[italiahorse]

The thread is worth reading again to show how idiotic our fans are and don't even question the clear mis truths that came from the council at the time.

Perhaps we can a read subsequent articles like the one that said its a £30 million deal when it turned out to be a third of that - oh and for 6 times the least length.

As the telegraph took an anti move to Northampton stance I assume there were lots of editorials at the time showing protests over the issue

There's more to life than turning over the same stones.
Most of us have moved on and just getting on with watching the football. A lot have just moved on !!

 

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[chiefdave]

I for one don't believe the council ever had any intention of selling the Ricoh to anybody before the rent strike happened, they were backed into a wall by SISU's tactics and then took the stance we will sell to anyone but SISU.

I would bet my house on that being true.

I spent some time a couple of weeks ago going back over old posts and comments from ACL, CCC and Higgs, wish I'd taken a note now as they'd be good to post in this thread. Knowing what we now know you can easily reinterpret a lot of the comments that were being thrown around at the time. It was clear many of them were very carefully written to suggest a different version of the truth.

Things like stating the rent at the Ricoh was based on the rent when we left HR, conveniently leaving out the fact that at that point we were paying huge penalty for being late moving out and losing millions every year. There was things like there had never been any formal discussions about reducing the rent which would, again with hindsight, could be seen to imply a request for a reduction in rent was rejected as soon as it was mentioned so need need for formal discussions.

We've had some absolute charlatans running our club but pretty much every single one of them has come out since leaving and had a go at the council. As did Robbins when he left. A couple of interested parties who could have bid against SISU both lost interest after meeting with the council saying they wouldn't be able to work with them, interestingly both of their plans involved stadium ownership, SISU's didn't and was the preferred option of CCC. Hell even PK4 was in the CT one day being spotted going for a meeting with the council, accompanied by Joe and Hoff, only to never be heard from again. As I said each individual thing you can look at you would have your doubts about the people involved but when everyone involved over many years are all singing from the same hymn sheet you start to wonder.

Sometimes I wonder if, while SISU have made many terrible decisions, has their biggest problem been they've lost a PR war? A lot of people, some of whom I would count as relatively sensible and intelligent, have made with Sepalla or Fisher and come out with a massively changed point of view. Are they all wrong, have they all had the wool pulled over their eyes?

Perhaps that's why they were always banging on about Webber Shadwick. Of course we'll probably never know what happened, the fanbase seems to have no appetite for it let alone the local population in general.

 

[stupot07]

There's more to life than turning over the same stones.
Most of us have moved on and just getting on with watching the football. A lot have just moved on !!

You moved on within 24 hours of the deal.

You've moved on so much that you feel the need to comment on every wasps related thread. Why don't you just move on?!


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[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I would bet my house on that being true.

I spent some time a couple of weeks ago going back over old posts and comments from ACL, CCC and Higgs, wish I'd taken a note now as they'd be good to post in this thread. Knowing what we now know you can easily reinterpret a lot of the comments that were being thrown around at the time. It was clear many of them were very carefully written to suggest a different version of the truth.

Things like stating the rent at the Ricoh was based on the rent when we left HR, conveniently leaving out the fact that at that point we were paying huge penalty for being late moving out and losing millions every year. There was things like there had never been any formal discussions about reducing the rent which would, again with hindsight, could be seen to imply a request for a reduction in rent was rejected as soon as it was mentioned so need need for formal discussions.

We've had some absolute charlatans running our club but pretty much every single one of them has come out since leaving and had a go at the council. As did Robbins when he left. A couple of interested parties who could have bid against SISU both lost interest after meeting with the council saying they wouldn't be able to work with them, interestingly both of their plans involved stadium ownership, SISU's didn't and was the preferred option of CCC. Hell even PK4 was in the CT one day being spotted going for a meeting with the council, accompanied by Joe and Hoff, only to never be heard from again. As I said each individual thing you can look at you would have your doubts about the people involved but when everyone involved over many years are all singing from the same hymn sheet you start to wonder.

Sometimes I wonder if, while SISU have made many terrible decisions, has their biggest problem been they've lost a PR war? A lot of people, some of whom I would count as relatively sensible and intelligent, have made with Sepalla or Fisher and come out with a massively changed point of view. Are they all wrong, have they all had the wool pulled over their eyes?

Perhaps that's why they were always banging on about Webber Shadwick. Of course we'll probably never know what happened, the fanbase seems to have no appetite for it let alone the local population in general.

Yep I had always been under the impression that the council would sell ACL to CCFC when the club was in a position to buy, looking back now I don't believe the council ever had any intention of selling it back to the club or anyone pre rent strike.

 

[martcov]

I would bet my house on that being true.

Who are you referring to here:

"Sometimes I wonder if, while SISU have made many terrible decisions, has their biggest problem been they've lost a PR war? A lot of people, some of whom I would count as relatively sensible and intelligent, have made with Sepalla or Fisher and come out with a massively changed point of view. Are they all wrong, have they all had the wool pulled over their eyes"

if you are referring to Nicky "fingers in the till" or Les "ego" Reid, then I would bet my house on it that they were wrong.

 

[Godiva]

I would bet my house on that being true.

I spent some time a couple of weeks ago going back over old posts and comments from ACL, CCC and Higgs, wish I'd taken a note now as they'd be good to post in this thread. Knowing what we now know you can easily reinterpret a lot of the comments that were being thrown around at the time. It was clear many of them were very carefully written to suggest a different version of the truth.

Things like stating the rent at the Ricoh was based on the rent when we left HR, conveniently leaving out the fact that at that point we were paying huge penalty for being late moving out and losing millions every year. There was things like there had never been any formal discussions about reducing the rent which would, again with hindsight, could be seen to imply a request for a reduction in rent was rejected as soon as it was mentioned so need need for formal discussions.

We've had some absolute charlatans running our club but pretty much every single one of them has come out since leaving and had a go at the council. As did Robbins when he left. A couple of interested parties who could have bid against SISU both lost interest after meeting with the council saying they wouldn't be able to work with them, interestingly both of their plans involved stadium ownership, SISU's didn't and was the preferred option of CCC. Hell even PK4 was in the CT one day being spotted going for a meeting with the council, accompanied by Joe and Hoff, only to never be heard from again. As I said each individual thing you can look at you would have your doubts about the people involved but when everyone involved over many years are all singing from the same hymn sheet you start to wonder.

Sometimes I wonder if, while SISU have made many terrible decisions, has their biggest problem been they've lost a PR war? A lot of people, some of whom I would count as relatively sensible and intelligent, have made with Sepalla or Fisher and come out with a massively changed point of view. Are they all wrong, have they all had the wool pulled over their eyes?

Perhaps that's why they were always banging on about Webber Shadwick. Of course we'll probably never know what happened, the fanbase seems to have no appetite for it let alone the local population in general.

Just one thing that always makes me wonder: Every time this comes up people refer to 'CCC' in general term as if the council was united, uniformly informed and equally talking part of the decision process throughout. I don't think so. It's much more likely the work of just a couple of councillors and a couple of public servants.
A public enquiry would reveal this, but it's probably not going to happen.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

tbf there haven't been *that* many persuaded after one on ones.

 

[martcov]

Completely agree. If fisher had not said it, guess what - the wasps deal would have still gone through. It's foolish to suggest otherwise.


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it is a possibility that there may have been a halt in negotiations, but more to the point, there would have been a justifiable reason to question as to why the Wasps deal still went ahead. Saying, in effect, we are not interested, at a crucial point, ended any chance of a last minute reprieve. Yes I know Fisher bullshits, but he sometimes doesn't. It is hardly anyone's fault for not knowing if this was bullshit or not. I don't know even now. He only made the last bid with some bullshit letter about community this and that to save face - IMO. I don't think anyone took it all seriously as it didn't look like a well worked out and convincing business plan. I would say it was foolish for Fisher to have made such a negative comment just after the return and just after the slamming of doors comment from CCC. It was pure arrogance on his part and undoubtedly he was outsmarted by Richardson and his PR was and is crap.

 

[stupot07]

it is a possibility that there may have been a halt in negotiations, but more to the point, there would have been a justifiable reason to question as to why the Wasps deal still went ahead. Saying, in effect, we are not interested, at a crucial point, ended any chance of a last minute reprieve. Yes I know Fisher bullshits, but he sometimes doesn't. It is hardly anyone's fault for not knowing if this was bullshit or not. I don't know even now. He only made the last bid with some bullshit letter about community this and that to save face - IMO. I don't think anyone took it all seriously as it didn't look like a well worked out and convincing business plan. I would say it was foolish for Fisher to have made such a negative comment just after the return and just after the slamming of doors comment from CCC. It was pure arrogance on his part and undoubtedly he was outsmarted by Richardson and his PR was and is crap.

Sorry mart. I think you're clutching at straws. Negotiations had been going some while, wasps would have had an exclusivity agreement. There would be no justifiable reason to halt negotiations with such an agreement in place, would have probably had penalties for pulling out ala the HoTs we had with them which saw higgs take us to court. The deal was done way before TF said that.

It's just easier to blame Fisher than to accept it was already a done deal despite the "building bridges" rhetoric.


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[martcov]

Sorry mart. I think you're clutching at straws. Negotiations had been going some while, wasps would have had an exclusivity agreement. There would be no justifiable reason to halt negotiations with such an agreement in place, would have probably had penalties for pulling out ala the HoTs we had with them which saw higgs take us to court. The deal was done way before TF said that.

It's just easier to blame Fisher than to accept it was already a done deal despite the "building bridges" rhetoric.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

I am saying that if he had said that he wanted to build bridges and sit at the negotiating table, CCC would indeed be seen in a bad light. There would have been outrage from the people ( including me ) who think that SISU screwed up. A refusal to meet Tim would have got me on the anti CCC side. But Tim screwed up yet again by saying he didn't want the Ricoh and was building a stadium. Where is the announcement that was promised for the new year? Sorry, whilst I think that CCC are probably not clean in this affair, Tim did screw this up - again.

 

[italiahorse]

You moved on within 24 hours of the deal.

You've moved on so much that you feel the need to comment on every wasps related thread. Why don't you just move on?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Trying to get everybody to be more positive. There are about 5 posters just dragging every post down.
You can't change anything so just worry about things you can influence like actually attending football matches!!

 

[shy_tall_knight]

SISU bought the club with the rent deal in place - their decision do you think WASPS / any properly run business would have bought under those rental terms
No strategy to move the club forward
Got outsmarted by both the council and WASPS
SISU are now an irrelevance with no plans or strategy just spout meaningless drivel that most Cov fans see through except RFC Grende & Co

 

[Grendel]

Trying to get everybody to be more positive. There are about 5 posters just dragging every post down.
You can't change anything so just worry about things you can influence like actually attending football matches!!

You parked your car in the wasps car park as soon as they rolled into town.

Go on Drunken Wasps and go away.

 

[torchomatic]

Yeah, but...

SISU bought the club with the rent deal in place - their decision do you think WASPS / any properly run business would have bought under those rental terms
No strategy to move the club forward
Got outsmarted by both the council and WASPS
SISU are now an irrelevance with no plans or strategy just spout meaningless drivel that most Cov fans see through except RFC Grende & Co

 

[Grendel]

SISU bought the club with the rent deal in place - their decision do you think WASPS / any properly run business would have bought under those rental terms
No strategy to move the club forward
Got outsmarted by both the council and WASPS
SISU are now an irrelevance with no plans or strategy just spout meaningless drivel that most Cov fans see through except RFC Grende & Co

And yet if sisu had succeeded in making act sell to them the whole shooting match for that price you'd be the first to bleat about raping a children's charity.

Your a hypocrite so piss off.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

You're getting upset because the truth hurts you backed the horse that was SISU and they have screwed up big time, they backed CCC into a corner and the responded with the WASPS deal, whilst they were trying to distress everyone which I rightly objected to, the charity lost out SISU lost out but most of all Cov fans have lost out.

 

[stupot07]

I am saying that if he had said that he wanted to build bridges and sit at the negotiating table, CCC would indeed be seen in a bad light. There would have been outrage from the people ( including me ) who think that SISU screwed up. A refusal to meet Tim would have got me on the anti CCC side. But Tim screwed up yet again by saying he didn't want the Ricoh and was building a stadium. Where is the announcement that was promised for the new year? Sorry, whilst I think that CCC are probably not clean in this affair, Tim did screw this up - again.

I think you're forgetting who said they wanted to "build bridges". I'm not even sticking up for TF here, he's a baffoon, but his comments had no sway on the wasps deal, the negotiations had been going on for some time it was all but a done deal before we cam back. I don't understand why you cant accept that. Had TF said we wanted to buy it, guess what? the deal with Wasps would have still gone through, they'd of had an exclusivity agreement in place, CCC would not have been able to negotiate with sisu.

This had nothing to do with TF's comments.

 

[chiefdave]

if you are referring to Nicky "fingers in the till" or Les "ego" Reid, then I would bet my house on it that they were wrong.

Neither of those were people as was referring to as intelligent and having common sense

 

[Grendel]

You're getting upset because the truth hurts you backed the horse that was SISU and they have screwed up big time, they backed CCC into a corner and the responded with the WASPS deal, whilst they were trying to distress everyone which I rightly objected to, the charity lost out SISU lost out but most of all Cov fans have lost out.

According to pwkh and the council Acl was a solid business with ccfc making a minor contribution to turnover.

The company was profitable.

You are now saying that Acl were backed into a corner.

That suggests you believe pwkh and the council lied about the situation regarding the management company, it also suggests they would have failed years ago without the club pumping in a rent everyone agrees was obscene.

You've seen the light - welcome aboard.

 

[Godiva]

it is a possibility that there may have been a halt in negotiations, but more to the point, there would have been a justifiable reason to question as to why the Wasps deal still went ahead. Saying, in effect, we are not interested, at a crucial point, ended any chance of a last minute reprieve. Yes I know Fisher bullshits, but he sometimes doesn't. It is hardly anyone's fault for not knowing if this was bullshit or not. I don't know even now. He only made the last bid with some bullshit letter about community this and that to save face - IMO. I don't think anyone took it all seriously as it didn't look like a well worked out and convincing business plan. I would say it was foolish for Fisher to have made such a negative comment just after the return and just after the slamming of doors comment from CCC. It was pure arrogance on his part and undoubtedly he was outsmarted by Richardson and his PR was and is crap.

This sounds like a desperate attempt to cook up an explanation that is not even very good at removing any blame from the council. They could have waited, there was no need to absolutely fire-sell the football clubs home to a totally different sports franchise from London.

I am much more inclined to believe that Wasps required ccfc back to help lower the cost and up the income streams and cash flow of ACL.

 

[Hobo]

Hello Simon is this scoop from the same source that said Huddersfield had lined up Presley as their next manager?

My favourite, the biggest doubting Thomas of the potential Wasps deal...the biggest critic of us ever moving to the Ricoh....the biggest critic of the Ricoh being a viable concern....now the biggest critic of Wasps having it.

It is either worth having or it isn't Grendel.

I think Wasps will show us it was viable and will make it work. I will be left proudly supporting Coventry City FC and Coventry Rugby imagining what might have been.

I now hope SISU or someone can find an alternative way forward for my football club. Arguing about the past and the if only's will not find the solution. The solution lies in the future not in the past. Albert Camus said, "if you spend all your time searching for the meaning of life, you will not have lived."

We are where we are, we have to deal with it.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I think Wasps will show us it was viable and will make it work.

Worth pointing out however, that atm it's not really possible to judge either way.

I dunno, personally I reckon in about 5-6 years there might be a stadium available for the football club to buy, even cheaper than it was last time out.

That's assuming we haven't all lost the will to live by then with the endless circular arguments, mind you.

 

[skybluetony176]

I think you're forgetting who said they wanted to "build bridges". I'm not even sticking up for TF here, he's a baffoon, but his comments had no sway on the wasps deal, the negotiations had been going on for some time it was all but a done deal before we cam back. I don't understand why you cant accept that. Had TF said we wanted to buy it, guess what? the deal with Wasps would have still gone through, they'd of had an exclusivity agreement in place, CCC would not have been able to negotiate with sisu.

This had nothing to do with TF's comments.

I think you're forgetting who burnt those bridges.

If TF had have said that SISU were ready to do a deal and the council didn't at least sound them out we'd have reason to be upset but TF said and continues to say the opposite.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

SISU bought the club with the rent deal in place - their decision do you think WASPS / any properly run business would have bought under those rental terms
No strategy to move the club forward
Got outsmarted by both the council and WASPS
SISU are now an irrelevance with no plans or strategy just spout meaningless drivel that most Cov fans see through except RFC Grende & Co

Lack of Due Diligence is something that can rightly be levelled at SISU. The council certainly did outsmart SISU on this...they must have thought all their Xmas's had come at once with a new party happy to pay the rental deal as it was then.

It saddens me that some seem to take glee in the fact that our football club has been 'outsmarted' by a council and a franchise rugby club. Isn't the nirvana, what's best for our football club?

I guess not if some still sing the councils tune...

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Agree that they had underestimated the contribution made by CCFC, CCC are politicians and they reacted like politicians by ridding themselves of the Ricoh by giving it away to WASPS for next to nothing and saved themselves from the embarrassment of an empty stadium and there is no public backing outcry for an inquiry as SISU have the worst PR to match their strategic decisions. CCC have questions that won't ever be answered. SISU have divided the fanbase to ensure CCC & WASPS is unchallenged.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Yeah, but...

Come on surely you can think of your own,sorry you did a long time ago I blame Sisu but,but,but etc,why has this been resurrected,of course we haven't had many fights lately,oh and by the way I'm as stupid as the rest for getting involved.

 

[skybluetony176]

Worth pointing out however, that atm it's not really possible to judge either way.

I dunno, personally I reckon in about 5-6 years there might be a stadium available for the football club to buy, even cheaper than it was last time out.

That's assuming we haven't all lost the will to live by then with the endless circular arguments, mind you.

Naa. In five to six years TF will have just announced an exciting announcement is going to be made in the summer regarding the new stadium

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Lack of Due Diligence is something that can rightly be levelled at SISU. The council certainly did outsmart SISU on this...they must have thought all their Xmas's had come at once with a new party happy to pay the rental deal as it was then.

It saddens me that some seem to take glee in the fact that our football club has been 'outsmarted' by a council and a franchise rugby club. Isn't the nirvana, what's best for our football club?

Don't take glee by any means but not prepared to accept that its all CCC's fault, SISU have been a disaster and their strategy backfired with the cost being the possible end of our club. Whilst CCC & Higgs were the landlords our existance was not in doubt with WASPS owning it I'm not so sure.

 

[italiahorse]

You parked your car in the wasps car park as soon as they rolled into town.

Go on Drunken Wasps and go away.

You go away you irritating little man.
I attend more matches than most moaners on here and my opinion counts.

 

[martcov]

This sounds like a desperate attempt to cook up an explanation that is not even very good at removing any blame from the council. They could have waited, there was no need to absolutely fire-sell the football clubs home to a totally different sports franchise from London.

I am much more inclined to believe that Wasps required ccfc back to help lower the cost and up the income streams and cash flow of ACL.

Do you seriously believe that there was a conspiracy to get 100000 in rent revenue and a few pies and hot dogs sales from league 1 attendances? Next you'll be claiming SISU deliberately lost the JR ( sorry already been claimed ). My own business has far more revenue and I am not rich. I am not trying to take "blame" from the council ( if there is any ), but I am pointing the blame finger for not at least attempting to build bridges, firmly and squarely at Tim Fisher. Even if, as some claim ( without evidence ) a deal was already signed sealed and delivered, it would have rightly enraged people if Tim had been knocked back. At best it is terrible PR from Tim, at worst, just plain stupid to say he was building his own stadium anyway. Where is the stadium announcement promised for the new year (2015) by the way? No-one answers the question, but a few on here try to divert to a conspiracy theory about CCC having already made a deal ( which we don't actually know ).

 

[Skyblueweeman]

I attend more matches than most moaners on here and my opinion counts.

Well done. Your Super-Dooper Fan badge is in the post!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Well done. Your Super-Dooper Fan badge is in the post!

A certain irony when he was first in line to bitch at and about fans attending games not so long ago...

 

[martcov]

Lack of Due Diligence is something that can rightly be levelled at SISU. The council certainly did outsmart SISU on this...they must have thought all their Xmas's had come at once with a new party happy to pay the rental deal as it was then.

It saddens me that some seem to take glee in the fact that our football club has been 'outsmarted' by a council and a franchise rugby club. Isn't the nirvana, what's best for our football club?

I guess not if some still sing the councils tune...

just in case you mean that I am one of the gleeful ones .... Wasps are cleverer than SISU .... Measured on who has a stadium and who has not. That is a factual observation. I would rather it were the other way round, but it isn't.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Wasps are cleverer than SISU .... Measured on who has a stadium and who has not.

One could argue that given one team plays in a ground in their home city while the other doesn't, in actual fact Richardson is less clever than SISU...

If we're measuring by sporting terms, of course, rather than business.

 

[Hobo]

Worth pointing out however, that atm it's not really possible to judge either way.

I dunno, personally I reckon in about 5-6 years there might be a stadium available for the football club to buy, even cheaper than it was last time out.

That's assuming we haven't all lost the will to live by then with the endless circular arguments, mind you.

You might be right, but to build the club's next 5 year plan on that possibility would be dangerous. Personally I don't think it will be available. I think something that held the Ricoh back was ACL being in the position of minders until SISU bought in. Wasps have to make it work, they are ahead of where they expected to be.

Yes it is early days...but we need to start looking after ourselves. There is so much that needs and can be re structured in the meantime there are no excuses for a delay.