Joe Elliot: Even He Likes Wasps (20 Viewers)

[Hobo]

There are people on here that protested about our move but say they have seen Wasps play though. Do you say this is right?

It seems a skewed logic. But as I didn't believe in dishing out abuse to people who followed the team to Sixfields I am not going to pick on people who decide to go to a Wasps game. I don't think it comes down to whether it is right the over riding thing is freedom of choice. Giving abuse out because someone exercises their freedom of choice is the wrong bit, and certain parties in both camps have been guilty of that.

As for logic, we often fail on that don't we? Fans don't agree with Wimbledon move to MK, but will still go to MK. I think Sky has been detrimental to football and is becoming so with rugby, but I am currently watching Derby v Reading on Sky. Why? Because I like football.

 

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[covmark]

Course it is the same most of us have supported the City all our lives.
yet never felt the urge to enter that shithole.
Now hillers are accused trouble makers yet those that went into the ground never said a bad word to anyone???

Disagree, although I never went to sixfields and I've never been to see Wasps. Therefore I'm free to hurl abuse at everyone

 

[Nick]

So what if they're a neutral Rugby fan and a CCFC fan who wouldn't go to Sixfields?

If they were abusing people who did then it makes them look a bit silly doesn't it. Abusing people for watching their own team at a temporary move down the road while supporting a random team who moved forever close to 3 times as far.

 

[Moff]

So what if they're a neutral Rugby fan and a CCFC fan who wouldn't go to Sixfields?

How about Coventry Rugby Club, you know the ones that have been in the City for years.:facepalm:

 

[Moff]

Disagree, although I never went to sixfields and I've never been to see Wasps. Therefore I'm free to hurl abuse at everyone

Me too. Its great.

 

[Hobo]

How about Coventry Rugby Club, you know the ones that have been in the City for years.:facepalm:

And all the small local clubs that people support. That is why Wasps playing Sunday's has been popular. When they played on Saturday which clashed with our home fixture (Ealing if I remember right. Some Cov Rugby fans went to watch Wasps then went to the Butts. Some Wasps fans came down to the Butts also in fairness.

Rugby just isn't as tribal as football.

Wasps saying they might play some on Saturdays next year is being driven by TV which is looking to show two live games on a Saturday next season, one lunchtime one early evening.

 

[skybluetony176]

How about Coventry Rugby Club, you know the ones that have been in the City for years.:facepalm:

I would imagine (going by the Rugby fans I know) that there are plenty of people who have been watching CRFC for years and continue to watch CRFC also go to Wasps games without being judged by others.

 

[Astute]

It seems a skewed logic. But as I didn't believe in dishing out abuse to people who followed the team to Sixfields I am not going to pick on people who decide to go to a Wasps game. I don't think it comes down to whether it is right the over riding thing is freedom of choice. Giving abuse out because someone exercises their freedom of choice is the wrong bit, and certain parties in both camps have been guilty of that.

As for logic, we often fail on that don't we? Fans don't agree with Wimbledon move to MK, but will still go to MK. I think Sky has been detrimental to football and is becoming so with rugby, but I am currently watching Derby v Reading on Sky. Why? Because I like football.

I have not had a go at anyone.....yet. I have pointed out the irony in what is being said. And I stand by it 100%. I am not in either camp you mentioned. I have my own mind. I agree with what is seen as both sides at different times. Although I am anti Richardson then anti SISU more than anyone else.

We were moved to Northampton. Many were saying...including myself....that if you went to Northampton you were backing SISU's move with your cash. If you agree with this how about my next part. Wasps moved to Coventry and took over the arena. If you go to watch them play you are backing their move to Coventry and taking over the Ricoh with your cash.

 

[Astute]

Me too. Its great.

Neither did I. So can I. You pair of twats

 

[Calista]

I was interested to read that before our last home game two thirds of the Waps season tickets holders at Adams Park had already renewed for The Ricoh next year. It seems most their fanbase have come round to supporting the move. Also having monitored their forum I am unaware of any protests organised by their fans.

Interesting. It doesn't seem to stop people acting as anti-franchise warriors on their behalf though does it? The circular arguments on here all assume that the CCFC Sixfields move and the Wasps Ricoh move are equivalent. I don’t believe they are (see post #64).

 

[Nick]

Interesting. It doesn't seem to stop people acting as anti-franchise warriors on their behalf though does it? The circular arguments on here all assume that the CCFC Sixfields move and the Wasps Ricoh move are equivalent. I don’t believe they are (see post #64).

Would have been fine if CCFC moved long term from Northampton then?

They aren't equivalent because the CCFC Sixfields move was temporary. If they had moved 80 miles forever, then of course we could compare.

 

[Astute]

Interesting. It doesn't seem to stop people acting as anti-franchise warriors on their behalf though does it? The circular arguments on here all assume that the CCFC Sixfields move and the Wasps Ricoh move are equivalent. I don’t believe they are (see post #64).

So you would be OK with it if we moved nearly 100 miles permanently?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

So you would be OK with it if we moved nearly 100 miles permanently?

I think he's saying its 13 years too late, its like MK Dons saying they are moving again to another city and everyone getting outraged. Its a valid point as to why the current Wasps were not overly bothered by the move but it still doesn't really excuse those who jumped on the Wasps bandwagon after what happened with us.

 

[Calista]

Would have been fine if CCFC moved long term from Northampton then?

They aren't equivalent because the CCFC Sixfields move was temporary*. If they had moved 80 miles forever, then of course we could compare.

* and designed to gain leverage in a commercial property dispute.

I really do get both sides of this - I'm just making the point that those who were against Sixfields but can understand the Wasps move aren't necessarily being inconsistent. It's simply not black and white, and people are entitled to hold that view without being called hypocrites.

 

[Nick]

* and designed to gain leverage in a commercial property dispute.

I really do get both sides of this - I'm just making the point that those who were against Sixfields but can understand the Wasps move aren't necessarily being inconsistent. It's simply not black and white, and people are entitled to hold that view without being called hypocrites.

Didn't Wasps move to take advantage of said Dispute?

If I pull a knife on somebody to take their wallet and fail to get the wallet does it make it ok for somebody to come and take the wallet after I have gone / given up?

My point is against those who abused / had digs at people who went to Sixfields.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Didn't Wasps move to take advantage of said Dispute?

If I pull a knife on somebody to take their wallet and fail to get the wallet does it make it ok for somebody to come and take the wallet after I have gone / given up?

It makes them excellent business man and very clever apparently

 

[Hobo]

I have not had a go at anyone.....yet. I have pointed out the irony in what is being said. And I stand by it 100%. I am not in either camp you mentioned. I have my own mind. I agree with what is seen as both sides at different times. Although I am anti Richardson then anti SISU more than anyone else.

We were moved to Northampton. Many were saying...including myself....that if you went to Northampton you were backing SISU's move with your cash. If you agree with this how about my next part. Wasps moved to Coventry and took over the arena. If you go to watch them play you are backing their move to Coventry and taking over the Ricoh with your cash.

I haven't accused you of having a go have I? I haven't accused you of being in either camp have I? I replied to one of Nicks posts, you replied to that, then I replied to yours.

it sounds like we have been on the same song sheet.

to take it to the extreme.....since Wasps have been in town I haven't been to a Coventry City or Wasps match at the Ricoh, never been to MK, Sixfields or Arsenal in the Cup. So I have a clear conscience on franchising. And I haven't abused fans for freedom of choice either.

our club has been poorly run through numerous owners, it has eroded our fanbase, the saddest part is we have underachieved while possessing massive potential. But only the current or new owners have the ability to change the situation.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Nothing. Like his mate who can't control himself, he just likes the attention.

Quite right jealous are you or is it that I wouldn't give you an autograph?


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[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Didn't Wasps move to take advantage of said Dispute?

If I pull a knife on somebody to take their wallet and fail to get the wallet does it make it ok for somebody to come and take the wallet after I have gone / given up?

My point is against those who abused / had digs at people who went to Sixfields.

As I posted on another thread this week WHY has this all been dredged up again? Here we are on the eve of a game that could send us down to the 4th division and are we worried ? No. You know what keep the forum to yourselves I've had enough.


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[Nick]

As I posted on another thread this week WHY has this all been dredged up again? Here we are on the eve of a game that could send us down to the 4th division and are we worried ? No. You know what keep the forum to yourselves I've had enough.


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People can discuss more than one thing at once to be fair can't they?

 

[chiefdave]

I can’t work out if people genuinely don’t get it or are just playing dumb, it seems very simple to me. Lets compare the two situations.

CCFC moved 35 miles to Northampton. It was a temporary move, said to be for a maximum of 5 years, as the clubs owners claimed they had no other option. Fans were assured the club would return to ‘the Coventry area’.

Wasps moved 28 miles to Wycombe. It was a temporary move, don’t believe any time scale was given. The clubs owners claimed they had no other option. Fans were assured the club would return to its ‘natural home’.

To me those two situations are very similar. Fans of either club could chose to continue attending, either because they agreed with what they were being told or because they just wanted to support the team. Equally fans could stay away as they did not agree with the temporary move.

I don’t recall much protest from Wasps fans, although if there was I may well have missed it. I do remember many CCFC fans arguing against going to Northampton, something that was reflected in the attendances. 8K+ CCFC fans protested by marching through the streets of Coventry on two occasions against the club playing away from it’s home city. The CT led a campaign against the club playing outside its home city. The local council repeatedly spoke out saying what a disgrace it was for the club to be away from its home city.

Wasps then moved 100 miles from their ‘natural home’ to Coventry. We know this was not their only option, we know there were other options on the table that would allow them to move back to London. Wasps themselves have admitted that the reason for choosing the move to Coventry over other options is purely financial.

The equivalent of this would be CCFC having played the full 5 years at Northampton and then moving to Manchester while there were alternative offers for them to move back to Coventry.

There are now people who would not attend games at Northampton as they did not agree with the move who will happily attend Wasps games at the Ricoh. There are people who marched against us playing in Northampton who will happily attend Wasps games at the Ricoh. The CT are happily supporting Wasps move to the city. The local council are the ones who facilitated Wasps move to the city.

Can people really not see the issue and the difference between the two situations? If SISU move us to Manchester as they can make more money that way will everyone happily accept it?

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

I get all the moralising about Wasps on here, I really do - but I think it’s misplaced. Opposing the CCFC move to Northampton whilst accepting (maybe even welcoming) the Wasps move to Coventry is not as laughable as some seem to think. In fact it’s a perfectly defensible position. My name isn’t Joe and I’ve never been to a Rugby match.

Wimbledon represented Wimbledon and should never have moved to MK.

Coventry City represent Coventry and must play in Coventry.

Wasps were shifted out to High Wycombe in 2002, and their fan base flipped overwhelmingly to Buckinghamshire (which is not London btw). Their supporters hardly raised a protest against the Ricoh move – maybe because they were already supporting a franchise? So why do we have to endlessly fight a pointless battle on their behalf? If the new followers of Wasps in the Midlands are to be despised and ridiculed, why so much wailing and gnashing of teeth about the Wycombe people? Many of them seem very happy, and our local rugby club don’t appear to be that concerned either.

I can’t see how CCC were meant to turn down the benefits that Wasps offered to the city, given that the only alternative was to clear all the contracts and write off the loan for Tim Fisher. If you’d been a City Councillor, which way would you have voted - honestly? It was unanimous.

I don’t agree with sports teams moving around, and I totally get the arguments against franchising. If (say) Bedford RFC had tried to move to Coventry I’d have been up in arms. But in the case of Wasps it’s 13 years too late. Just my opinion, but no doubt I’m a hypocrite.

Funny how this one got lost in yet another wave of self-righteous opportunism.

 

[Nick]

Funny how this one got lost in yet another wave of self-righteous opportunism.

Not too sure of your point? Especially as some people take Boycotting seriously, you would think they would be boycotting Wasps too rather than trying to justify it?

 

[chiefdave]

Funny how this one got lost in yet another wave of self-righteous opportunism.

Think that post misses the point TBH. On the basis of that if we'd stayed a few years at Sixfields and then moved 100 miles away it would all be fine. Can't agree with that. The key is the move to Wycombe, no matter how long it lasted, was stated as being temporary with an eventual return to London.

 

[skybluetony176]

Would have been fine if CCFC moved long term from Northampton then?

They aren't equivalent because the CCFC Sixfields move was temporary. If they had moved 80 miles forever, then of course we could compare.

Hate to bring it up again but although the move to Sixfields was supposed to be temporary the move out of Coventry was supposed to be permanent. So at the time it was exactly the same.

 

[Nick]

Hate to bring it up again but although the move to Sixfields was supposed to be temporary the move out of Coventry was supposed to be permanent. So at the time it was exactly the same.

No it wasn't, nothing was ever confirmed. It would have been if they had bought land and started building a stadium in Hinckley. They didn't did they?

It was a temporary move and nothing else was set in stone and confirmed.

Unless Tim Fisher does tell the truth after all?

 

[chiefdave]

Hate to bring it up again but although the move to Sixfields was supposed to be temporary the move out of Coventry was supposed to be permanent. So at the time it was exactly the same.

Are you seriously saying a new stadium for CCFC somewhere like Warwick Uni, Bermuda Park or Ansty Park, which virtually nobody believes is ever likely to happen, is the same as moving a club 100 miles?

 

[Godiva]

Didn't Wasps move to take advantage of said Dispute?

If I pull a knife on somebody to take their wallet and fail to get the wallet does it make it ok for somebody to come and take the wallet after I have gone / given up?

My point is against those who abused / had digs at people who went to Sixfields.

A little over the top if I may say so - Wasps did nothing illegal.
The anger/blame should be on our owners and the council for going into complete melt down. The early call in January 13 for a mediator should have been accepted by both parties to steer away from the ridiculous chain of events that followed.

 

[Nick]

A little over the top if I may say so - Wasps did nothing illegal.
The anger/blame should be on our owners and the council for going into complete melt down. The early call in January 13 for a mediator should have been accepted by both parties to steer away from the ridiculous chain of events that followed.

I wasn't trying to say it was illegal, just pointing out that it seems that trying to do something but failing = bad, actually doing it = OK.

 

[Astute]

Hate to bring it up again but although the move to Sixfields was supposed to be temporary the move out of Coventry was supposed to be permanent. So at the time it was exactly the same.

And my point is that people that were upset about our move and wouldn't go are happy to go to see Wasps. And you admit it was similar.

 

[Godiva]

I wasn't trying to say it was illegal, just pointing out that it seems that trying to do something but failing = bad, actually doing it = OK.

Yes, I understand what you meant. But stealing a wallet is illegal .

But the discussion is all about blaming fans - why? Surely the fans aren't responsible for ACL being sold to Wasps?

 

[skybluetony176]

No it wasn't, nothing was ever confirmed. It would have been if they had bought land and started building a stadium in Hinckley. They didn't did they?

It was a temporary move and nothing else was set in stone and confirmed.

Unless Tim Fisher does tell the truth after all?

Again. I hate to bring it up again but whether I think Fisher is a liar or not has nothing to do with it. He was the CEO he was the person directly in charge and he was the person who not only had it within his power to move the club he did. By the way I didn't believe him when he said we were finished with the Ricoh and were going to ground share outside of Coventry but he went ahead and did it. So whether I believe him or not isn't important. He said what he said and it was also within his powers to make sure we never returned to Coventry so rather than wait and find out if he was lying or not I decided to put the power in my own hands, boycott Sixfields and show him that the idiotic idea of ground sharing in Northampton was. You're welcome by the way.

 

[Nick]

Yes, I understand what you meant. But stealing a wallet is illegal .

But the discussion is all about blaming fans - why? Surely the fans aren't responsible for ACL being sold to Wasps?

I don't think anybody is blaming the fans for the move happening though.

 

[Nick]

Again. I hate to bring it up again but whether I think Fisher is a liar or not has nothing to do with it. He was the CEO he was the person directly in charge and he was the person who not only had it within his power to move the club he did. By the way I didn't believe him when he said we were finished with the Ricoh and were going to ground share outside of Coventry but he went ahead and did it. So whether I believe him or not isn't important. He said what he said and it was also within his powers to make sure we never returned to Coventry so rather than wait and find out if he was lying or not I decided to put the power in my own hands, boycott Sixfields and show him that the idiotic idea of ground sharing in Northampton was. You're welcome by the way.

At least now the trust and telegraph as well as some hardcore anti sixfields people if we ever do move out of Coventry to ensure survival the club will have their full backing this time I guess.

Welcome for what? People need to make up their minds, one minute we came back because of Boycotts and the next minute it is because of wasps. Moving clubs is ok, then it isn't. All of these u turns make me dizzy.

 

[skybluetony176]

At least now the trust and telegraph as well as some hardcore anti sixfields people if we ever do move out of Coventry to ensure survival the club will have their full backing this time I guess.Welcome for what? People need to make up their minds, one minute we came back because of Boycotts and the next minute it is because of wasps. Moving clubs is ok, then it isn't. All of these u turns make me dizzy.

This time? Aw, bless. You think moving out of Coventry last time was to ensure survival of the club, awww. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it wasn't. In fact it was nothing to do with CCFC at all, CCFC was merely a pawn being used by it's queen.I guess if we ever have to move out of the Ricoh to secure the survival of the club the trust under the guidance of it's members (that's how it works you know) would back that move.I think the quote was something along the lines of the club has to stand on its own two feet without the financial backing of it's owners. That was clearly never going to happen at Sixfields despite TF's predictions so yes the club had to return to the Ricoh thanks to the ones that boycotted Sixfields. I don't buy the"we only come back because Wasps were buying" theory. Based on what? It stopped the takeover? What has it achieved other than apparently making CCFC cash flow positive?