Other income streams (5 Viewers)

[Manchester_sky_blue]

I might be talking out of my arse here but I was reading something this morning that sparked half an idea in the 'ol grey matter.

The article was about a small business that had diversified in order to survive the crash, realising that their premises were only used for their core business Monday to Friday they made use of the space to host events and stuff over the weekends...................seems like a good idea, broaden your scope etc, better chances of survival. Everyone with me so far........................ sounds a bit like a football stadium doesnt it.

Thing is, i also read something the other day (check me out with the learning!) from some football chairman or other, doesnt matter who, who was saying that stadiums are as much a hindrance as a help to a club because they are big and expensive to maintain and while you can use them for other stuff to boost your income they are limited as to what you can do with them and using them for concerts etc can knacker your pitch causing you more problems..........

So, if you are still awake, my question is this. Does the club really need a stadium in order to earn additional income? What if that income could come from other sources.........

Whats to stop the club buying up land and opening it as a car park or a leisure centre, shops or even building houses on it? Is there anything that says a football club cant own office space to rent out etc? The Ricoh will hopefully be getting a train station soon but someone has to run the franchise for the trains, what if the club owned that franchise and the profits from the fairs went back in to the club?

Like I say, perhaps there are all sorts of reasons why those things cant or shouldnt happen, i am no expert in any of this, but it does seem that building a new stadium is both difficult and expensive and counter productive when the Ricoh is already there. So if we can play at the Ricoh for a reasonable rent but have no responsibility for its upkeep AND still make money from owning other assets then wouldnt that make a lot more sense?

 

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[shmmeee]

Leaving aside the "is it a good idea to own your own stadium" question (because it's hard), the reason AFAIK we can't just set up Tim and Joy on an Avon round or whatever is that only income "from the stadium bowl" is included in FFP or something.

I'm sure Godiva or OSB will be along to clear that up if I got it wrong.

 

[Sbarcher]

I see nothing wrong with Joy manning a burger van outside the Ricoh. I should very much like her handling my sausage.......

 

[shmmeee]

I see nothing wrong with Joy manning a burger van outside the Ricoh. I should very much like her handling my sausage.......

She's got some lovely baps I understand.

 

[Sbarcher]

I'm told she cuts the mustard.....

 

[bigfatronssba]

Leaving aside the "is it a good idea to own your own stadium" question (because it's hard), the reason AFAIK we can't just set up Tim and Joy on an Avon round or whatever is that only income "from the stadium bowl" is included in FFP or something.

I'm sure Godiva or OSB will be along to clear that up if I got it wrong.

If that is the case then pointless owning the Ricoh. Massive part of its income must be from outside the stadium bowl.

 

[shmmeee]

If that is the case then pointless owning the Ricoh. Massive part of its income must be from outside the stadium bowl.

Again this is blind leading the blind, but I do remember getting into a rather boring debate with either Godiva or OSB about what constitutes the "bowl" and how far out you could go.

I think the real answer is, no-one's quite sure.

 

[ashbyjan]

Following conversation at SCG with CCFC Financial Director Steve Brookfield the facts are that the club could build a separate building for exhibitions/conferences/tea dances/lap dances etc etc as long as it is owned within the same company as the football club. If that is the case then all income can be counted towards SCMP at the standard rate - currently 60%. It is financial location not geographic that is important. Whether SISU would want its investment (someone has to pay for it - ie their investors) would want to place it within the same corporate structure is a matter for them to decide and maybe explain why not before dragging the club out of Coventry to a new unnecessary stadium. Maybe they should look at reacquiring the Sky Blue Connexxion (or Ian Wallace Connexxion as it should be more properly called).

 

[Ian1779]

If that is the case then pointless owning the Ricoh. Massive part of its income must be from outside the stadium bowl.

The FFP guidelines from UEFA say that for income to be included it has to be in the direct vicinity of the club (As in it's stadium or stadium venue - so owning the Ricoh would be far from pointless would it?) or be clearly tied in as a commercial activity of the football club.

 

[bigfatronssba]

The FFP guidelines from UEFA say that for income to be included it has to be in the direct vicinity of the club (As in it's stadium or stadium venue - so owning the Ricoh would be far from pointless would it?) or be clearly tied in as a commercial activity of the football club.

So no reason at all then why they couldn't construct something on the land across the railway line.

 

[mrtrench]

No, there is no reason why the club couldn't do it in theory. However it doesn't have the funds and IF SISU wanted to do it:

1. They do it as part of another company.
2. They'd want a bargain. They need extraordinary returns - not normal ones that an honest/normal business would get by buying land etc.

Forget all the rhetoric about additional income - it was always part of the game to get the Ricoh cheap. Now that's gone they're not interested. This MAY be why they have finally succumbed and decided to invest in trying to get promotion again - Plan C.

 

[Ian1779]

So no reason at all then why they couldn't construct something on the land across the railway line.

What another stadium? Or do you think we can get promoted on the back of a little tea room and it's profits?

 

[bigfatronssba]

What another stadium? Or do you think we can get promoted on the back of a little tea room and it's profits?

We don't need a new stadium do we? A stadium is only needed for a pitch, and somewhere to house paying fans. We already have that.

What we need is additional income streams. Now you tell me why some new commercial activity built on the wasteland behind the Ricoh wouldn't work, but some new commercial activity built behind a stadium in Rugby would?

 

[Ian1779]

We don't need a new stadium do we? A stadium is only needed for a pitch, and somewhere to house paying fans. We already have that.

What we need is additional income streams. Now you tell me why some new commercial activity built on the wasteland behind the Ricoh wouldn't work, but some new commercial activity built behind a stadium in Rugby would?

Ask yourself why Wasps moved 80 miles up here when they could have just built some commercial activity outside of High Wycombe?

 

[italiahorse]

Ask yourself why Wasps moved 80 miles up here when they could have just built some commercial activity outside of High Wycombe?

... because it is a fantastic stadium they could own for £20M?

 

[italiahorse]

The FFP guidelines from UEFA say that for income to be included it has to be in the direct vicinity of the club (As in it's stadium or stadium venue - so owning the Ricoh would be far from pointless would it?) or be clearly tied in as a commercial activity of the football club.

.. so the superstore does not count ?

 

[Ian1779]

.. so the superstore does not count ?

Of course it does. It is selling CCFC products...hence clearly tied into it's commercial activity.

Are you trying to be deliberately obtrusive?

 

[Grendel]

... because it is a fantastic stadium they could own for £20M?

So you admit they actually own the Ricoh then?

 

[italiahorse]

Of course it does. It is selling CCFC products...hence clearly tied into it's commercial activity.

Are you trying to be deliberately obtrusive?

No I'm pointing out that incomes fall further away than the stadium bowl as you suggest.
It's not clear.
The other confusion is football related incomes only which may exclude hotels etc

I suggest that the football club needs to own, or rent the facilities that generate the income to include them in the calculation.
Which feeds into the OP and presents unlimited incomes away from the bowl.

 

[italiahorse]

So you admit they actually own the Ricoh then?

As good as, but obviously CCC own it and Wasps rent it back.

 

[Grendel]

As good as, but obviously CCC own it and Wasps rent it back.

Not according to a financial article in fixed income investor. It states that the purchase was made by purchasing the existing lease (which had no rental payments) and extending it to 250 years for £1 million - or £4,000 a year.

 

[italiahorse]

Not according to a financial article in fixed income investor. It states that the purchase was made by purchasing the existing lease (which had no rental payments) and extending it to 250 years for £1 million - or £4,000 a year.

But we do know the original lease had quite high payments that were profit related.
A discussion could take place to whether ACL could circumnavigate around them.

 

[Grendel]

But we do know the original lease had quite high payments that were profit related.

So? Wasps holdings will not make a profit above that level.

The loans still outstanding to Moonstone and MGI will ensure that or they just take dividends from wasps holdings to keep below that level.

 

[italiahorse]

So? Wasps holdings will not make a profit above that level.

The loans still outstanding to Moonstone and MGI will ensure that or they just take dividends from wasps holdings to keep below that level.

So you got it wrong on rent payments?
We have already had the discussion on whether ACL can avoid them.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Ask yourself why Wasps moved 80 miles up here when they could have just built some commercial activity outside of High Wycombe?

Because there is larger potential support up here and greater potential.

You still haven't explained how commercial activity in Rugby will make money but commercial activity in Rowleys Green won't.

 

[Grendel]

So you got it wrong on rent payments?
We have already had the discussion on whether ACL can avoid them.

No I was humouring you.

The article says they have purchased the lot for £1 million. It's a detailed article and there is no mention of such an arrangement.

I was merely saying that even if it did exist so what?

 

[Grendel]

Because there is larger potential support up here and greater potential.

You still haven't explained how commercial activity in Rugby will make money but commercial activity in Rowleys Green won't.

And you haven't explained why wasps couldn't have purchased some land in Wycombe and done the same.

 

[italiahorse]

And you haven't explained why wasps couldn't have purchased some land in Wycombe and done the same.

It got turned down if you remember ?

 

[Nick]

And you haven't explained why wasps couldn't have purchased some land in Wycombe and done the same.

Because there is larger support here, so it's ok when ccfc move somewhere to get more supporters

 

[Grendel]

It got turned down if you remember ?

What they wanted to buy land in Bucks to build separate hotels and conference facilities and continue renting at Wycombe?

Do you have any evidence?

 

[italiahorse]

Because there is larger support here, so it's ok when ccfc move somewhere to get more supporters

I think we have got the supporters here, just need to think outside the box(Ricoh) on incomes.

 

[Grendel]

I think we have got the supporters here, just need to think outside the box(Ricoh) on incomes.

Unlike wasps (Wycombe)

 

[bigfatronssba]

And you haven't explained why wasps couldn't have purchased some land in Wycombe and done the same.

Because they didn't have as many fans attending down there.

 

[italiahorse]

What they wanted to buy land in Bucks to build separate hotels and conference facilities and continue renting at Wycombe?

Do you have any evidence?

The stadium complex was turned down that involved both Wasps and WW

 

[Ian1779]

Because there is larger potential support up here and greater potential.

You still haven't explained how commercial activity in Rugby will make money but commercial activity in Rowleys Green won't.

Greater potential and more support? 80 miles from its historical base?

I'd suggest the reason they came is because CCC bent over with their pants down and practically begged them to take it at a steal because it was anyone but SISU.

That aside, to answer your question - it's simple. The club would make the most of commercial activity when it is in full control of it. A stadium wherever would be under the clubs control and it would benefit directly from whatever the commercial arrangements were... Which is Wasps modus operandi really isn't it.