Other income streams (2 Viewers)

[italiahorse]

But you must be following blindly to stay at the Ricoh without knowing what is going to happen etc?

The current costs of staying at the Ricoh are known by Sisu.
We are only following blindly because they don't let us know for some reason.
In addition we will never know what the long term position is at the Ricoh because Sisu say we are moving out and not integrating with Wasps for the benefit of both clubs.
In reality we are not doing anything for the future other than playing bluff.

 

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[Nick]

The current costs of staying at the Ricoh are known by Sisu.
We are only following blindly because they don't let us know for some reason.
In addition we will never know what the long term position is at the Ricoh because Sisu say we are moving out and not integrating with Wasps for the benefit of both clubs.
In reality we are not doing anything for the future other than playing bluff.

So its ok to follow blindly to stay at the Ricoh but not move?

Integrating with Wasps how?

 

[oldskyblue58]

It would be very helpful if the club/owners defined what these other income streams were that they are missing out on and quantified the turnover and net profit derived from each. They must have done just that in order to make their new stadium decision surely? What is it the club doesn't get now that it would get in or because of its own stadium and what is the estimated gain.

On the otherside of that what are the additional costs of course.....

 

[fernandopartridge]

In my simple mind the biggest income generation target should be tickets, you can target that without deriving from your core purpose which is being a (successful) football team. You're in a less competitive market than say conferences and exhibitions where there is very little brand loyalty.

 

[fernandopartridge]

To talk of maximising other income streams when your main one isn't performing as it should doesn't address the problem.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

In my simple mind the biggest income generation target should be tickets, you can target that without deriving from your core purpose which is being a (successful) football team. You're in a less competitive market than say conferences and exhibitions where there is very little brand loyalty.

This.

Can we close this thread now.....finish on something reasonable & sane !!

 

[Hobo]

They seem to have want us to follow blindly when we have seen no figures on financing the new stadium, what rental we might have to pay on it, and what percentage of incomes we can expect from it. We will continue with our own limited knowledge (guesses) until they put down some firm plans.

I don't want to open a SISU CCC debate but it is interesting Ann Lucas said "they offered no viable plan" around development. I think they should have done what Wasps have done and in effect bought the Ricoh. wasps seem to have the nouse to know how to finance it where SISU didn't.

back to CCFC...My doubts about SISU are they don't have that much (in football terms) disposable income, their investments are long term pension funds so cannot be judged yet, their reputation of big players seems to have been built on one financial year before the crash and despite a lot of noise they seem lacking in short term financial, real estate and litigation expertise.

however they own the club I love and represents me. If they can turn it round I am with them, but they haven't in seven years, but the appointent of TM gives me refreshed hope.

how they shape our future from here is very important. Their words and the words of people on here, including mine is worthless, until they action a viable plan to make Coventry City FC a sustainable and competitive force for the future.

i don't care who wins as long as it is Coventry City and its fans.

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

In my simple mind the biggest income generation target should be tickets, you can target that without deriving from your core purpose which is being a (successful) football team. You're in a less competitive market than say conferences and exhibitions where there is very little brand loyalty.

Can't argue with that.

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

To talk of maximising other income streams when your main one isn't performing as it should doesn't address the problem.

Well, only in as much as the club needs income, to be able to invest in the team, in order to perform better on the pitch. So either supporters take a leap and buy season tickets by their thousands and pack the Ricoh every single week OR the club generates income by other means (or put their hands in their own pockets), so that it can create a team capable of promotion very quickly and hope that success on the pitch equates to bums on seats and shirts sold.

 

[italiahorse]

So its ok to follow blindly to stay at the Ricoh but not move?

Integrating with Wasps how?

We have no choice.
A new stadium will not happen for many years, if at all.

Ticketing systems, stadium personalisation, pitch, onsite shop, staff ?

 

[chiefdave]

It would be very helpful if the club/owners defined what these other income streams were that they are missing out on and quantified the turnover and net profit derived from each. They must have done just that in order to make their new stadium decision surely? What is it the club doesn't get now that it would get in or because of its own stadium and what is the estimated gain.

On the otherside of that what are the additional costs of course.....

Few that spring to mind off the top of my head:

naming rights - sure we'll be hearing plenty about this when Wasps cash in shortly. With the sort of wage budget we have anything approaching the Ricoh deal of £1m a year would have a massive impact.

f&b - the numbers don't stack up to me, there should be a minimum 30% margin and even that is low and generally only when tied into an uncompetitive supplier agreement (eg: landlords tied into breweries). For a facility like the Ricoh I'd say 50% margin would be the minimum I'd expect. Eitehr the deal with Compass is terrible or something isn't quite as it seems.

other match day revenues - parking springs to mind, sure there's more.

venue hire - obviously dependent on what each ground has in terms of facilities but anything from meeting rooms to conferences to stadium hire for live events and of course the old favourite weddings. Not to mention a lot of those events bring other revenues with them.

Sure there's more. Another way to look at it is what weren't we doing when we were in the Championship, had big crowds and a half decent commercial side to the club including a fully stocked shop on site. When we had all that we will still lacking in revenues compared to other clubs so what were we doing wrong?

I would imagine if you examined every ground in the country you would find that most of them have fairly similar facilities so it shouldn't be too hard to establish what we are missing out on.

 

[Hobo]

Well, only in as much as the club needs income, to be able to invest in the team, in order to perform better on the pitch. So either supporters take a leap and buy season tickets by their thousands and pack the Ricoh every single week OR the club generates income by other means (or put their hands in their own pockets), so that it can create a team capable of promotion very quickly and hope that success on the pitch equates to bums on seats and shirts sold.

all these things go hand in hand. But they have to start with the club owners. As TM has said you have to build a professional environment to support the staff and build from there. He has also said he won't be asking for fans to dig in their pockets. He respects the club history and fan base and sees the potential. Things have to change at the club and on the field...and that is what will bring the fans back; a genuine plan and progression, especially when that is illustrated through performances on the pitch. It is not rocket science but he admits he has to find "factor X" and that is where we as fans have to give him trust and time to find it.

 

[italiahorse]

Few that spring to mind off the top of my head:

naming rights - sure we'll be hearing plenty about this when Wasps cash in shortly. With the sort of wage budget we have anything approaching the Ricoh deal of £1m a year would have a massive impact.

f&b - the numbers don't stack up to me, there should be a minimum 30% margin and even that is low and generally only when tied into an uncompetitive supplier agreement (eg: landlords tied into breweries). For a facility like the Ricoh I'd say 50% margin would be the minimum I'd expect. Eitehr the deal with Compass is terrible or something isn't quite as it seems.

other match day revenues - parking springs to mind, sure there's more.

venue hire - obviously dependent on what each ground has in terms of facilities but anything from meeting rooms to conferences to stadium hire for live events and of course the old favourite weddings. Not to mention a lot of those events bring other revenues with them.

Sure there's more. Another way to look at it is what weren't we doing when we were in the Championship, had big crowds and a half decent commercial side to the club including a fully stocked shop on site. When we had all that we will still lacking in revenues compared to other clubs so what were we doing wrong?

I would imagine if you examined every ground in the country you would find that most of them have fairly similar facilities so it shouldn't be too hard to establish what we are missing out on.

You missed the point.
It's the comparison between the income/expenditure (as you mention) at the Ricoh and the income/expenditure at the new stadium.
This specific CCFC information must exist or Sisu would not say a new stadium is the only option.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Few that spring to mind off the top of my head:

naming rights - sure we'll be hearing plenty about this when Wasps cash in shortly. With the sort of wage budget we have anything approaching the Ricoh deal of £1m a year would have a massive impact.

f&b - the numbers don't stack up to me, there should be a minimum 30% margin and even that is low and generally only when tied into an uncompetitive supplier agreement (eg: landlords tied into breweries). For a facility like the Ricoh I'd say 50% margin would be the minimum I'd expect. Eitehr the deal with Compass is terrible or something isn't quite as it seems.

other match day revenues - parking springs to mind, sure there's more.

venue hire - obviously dependent on what each ground has in terms of facilities but anything from meeting rooms to conferences to stadium hire for live events and of course the old favourite weddings. Not to mention a lot of those events bring other revenues with them.

Sure there's more. Another way to look at it is what weren't we doing when we were in the Championship, had big crowds and a half decent commercial side to the club including a fully stocked shop on site. When we had all that we will still lacking in revenues compared to other clubs so what were we doing wrong?

I would imagine if you examined every ground in the country you would find that most of them have fairly similar facilities so it shouldn't be too hard to establish what we are missing out on.

To be fair I was more asking for the owners to make their case in more detail, sorry if I mislead you

Couple of points

Naming rights - even with a new stadium CCFC are going to be in a different league to Wasps in terms of what they can command unless they become successful before that. Could they command £1m pa for a 18k stadium in L1 ?? Not sure about that I wouldn't think it would be half that but its just an opinion

F&B. You see I would have to say we shouldn't take TF's word for it on margins. The Gross Profit on the IEC operations (F&B) in 2013 and 2014 was 57% and 58% respectively. I would have said that was in the right ball park.

Don't they get car parking income at the moment? Didn't they get car parking even under the old lease and licence also

For me I cant help thinking that despite the limitations the club has for many years made a poor attempt at extracting all the value it can from the arrangements it had.

I agree with fp earlier when he said the thing that makes the real difference is the sale of tickets. If those are selling well that tends to mean the team is doing well and the other income follows. In the past they could have put their events, conferences etc on, thought outside the box a little more ..... every little counts in our situation surely...... but I cant help thinking they didn't in part because it might give ACL funds and keep ACL stronger than SISU etc wanted.

For the next few years we are at the Ricoh no choice so they need to maximise what they can get or do today....... not sit on their hands saying woe is me it cant be done. Need to think round things, out of comfort zone a little, be innovative or as TF says be solution driven. We need the incomes now not in 5 years time

 

[Nick]

Ticketing systems, stadium personalisation, pitch, onsite shop, staff ?

So a merger?

 

[chiefdave]

I agree with fp earlier when he said the thing that makes the real difference is the sale of tickets. If those are selling well that tends to mean the team is doing well and the other income follows. In the past they could have put their events, conferences etc on, thought outside the box a little more ..... every little counts in our situation surely...... but I cant help thinking they didn't in part because it might give ACL funds and keep ACL stronger than SISU etc wanted.

So what were we doing wrong when we were in the Championship and getting 20K because we had low revenues then? Can we not compare our accounts to other clubs and see where we were missing out so that the same mistakes aren't repeated?

I'm not convinced about the events idea. With a lot of events the ticket money goes on putting the event on, for example most bands playing a venue the size of the Ricoh (the hall not the stadium) would want 90% or more of the door take. The venue makes its money on thing such as beer sales except we wouldn't get that so what areas could we hit to generate income at such events?

Plus of course if we put on something and it was a success what's to stop ACL jumping in next time and making a better offer, we'd be left with all the things they didn't want. It's how most venues work. If you look at somewhere like the O2 Academy in Birmingham all the new bands will be put on by outside promoters who hire the venue so there's no risk to the venue of losing money. As soon as they pull enough people in to make the promoter a profit the venue will go to them direct and book them.

I'm all for thinking out of the box but it needs to be things with a decent chance of success. We can't run a football club properly let alone anything else!

 

[Astute]

We can't run a football club properly let alone anything else!

Exactly. Yet some seem to think that building a stadium outside Coventry that we can't afford will cure all of our ills in one go. It would be just another massive gamble like selling HR when we couldn't afford another home. Except this time we don't have a home to sell. Our biggest earner where we are now is from ticket sales. Get this wrong and our income will drop whilst outgoings go up.

 

[Limey]

There needs to be a massive drive on increasing fan base. Rarely see a City shirt in Leamington, Warwick, Kenilworth etc. We've never had enough presence outside of Cov imo.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Exactly. Yet some seem to think that building a stadium outside Coventry... will cure all of our ills in one go.

Who thinks that?

 

[fernandopartridge]

The margin on F&B sales is irrelevant if the market is as small as it is now. Selling tickets drives all the other revenues the club has access to. I'm not sure how the corporate advertising deals work but I'd assume we're a fair bit more attractive with 20k customers than 8k (as in we command higher fees if the exposure is greater)

 

[Grendel]

Who thinks that?

No one but it sounds good.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I agree about the need for a "home" in order to build the brand and focus attention. Its just a question of whether that can be achieved within the confines of a rental agreement with Wa.... that rugby club. Perhaps if we were generating income from housing/retail/hotel etc independently of our match day revenue we might be in a better position to impose our identity on the stadium.

I don't think it can be, as much because the Rugby club needs to do exactly that itself. It can't call on the tie of place thanks to time, tradition, so it has to impose itself on what it can. Among other things it needs to do ref: working in the community (see MK for that), if it truly wants to embed itself then it needs the stadium to be *theirs* and not any doubt in that.

So then if so, where's the space for us to do similar?

If it's not a strong and consistent identity, then they'll struggle long term to generate those revenues. If they were to allow the waters to be muddied in that sense, it would probably suggest they weren't doing their embedding well to be perfectly honest, and/or they weren't as established as they'd hoped to be. I certainly wouldn't be depending on them doing different however; I wouldn't bank on the ground being able to be a home for two sides with quite distinct differences in how they're branded.

 

[italiahorse]

No one but it sounds good.

Originally Posted by dongonzalos
IMO the sooner they get a bid in for land and a realistic plan together, that seems feasible and plausible. Plonk that in front of wasps so it no longer sounds like hot air. Also put in front of wasps a clear and tempting business plan. That makes it worthwhile for CCFC not leaving. Yet also benefits wasps if CCFC stick around. Get the long term rent deal done.



I assume this is a joke . If they really were going to build (they won't) then get out of the bloody place ASAP.​

Make your mind up !!!!

 

[Astute]

Who thinks that?

So nobody has said that we would be better off in our own stadium outside Coventry as we will get 365 revenues?

 

[Grendel]

So nobody has said that we would be better off in our own stadium outside Coventry as we will get 365 revenues?

Yes people have said that. What they haven't said is "it will cure all our ills in one go" - no one has said that.

 

[italiahorse]

Yes people have said that. What they haven't said is "it will cure all our ills in one go" - no one has said that.

Surely, wanting to leave ASAP is the same thing ?

 

[ccfc92]

Yes people have said that. What they haven't said is "it will cure all our ills in one go" - no one has said that.

I'm sure RFC has.

Or are we not counting him

 

[Astute]

Yes people have said that. What they haven't said is "it will cure all our ills in one go" - no one has said that.

So nothing has been said like that then

So what is meant by needing our own stadium with 365 revenues? Nobody will buy us without our own stadium? Our future is uncertain without our own stadium?

 

[skybluetony176]

With SISU overseeing the move I could see it easily being a bigger disaster than the move out of HR to the Ricoh. It's got fuck up written all over it.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Yes people have said that. What they haven't said is "it will cure all our ills in one go" - no one has said that.

So by owning our own ground we have no one to blame but the builders and maybe RBC for selling us some land at an extortionate price.
So yes will cure most of our ills.