Other income streams (16 Viewers)

[Moff]

Are you talking about us?

Big Fat Ron was talking about London Irish as an example of a successfull Premiership Rugby Team. I begged to differ and described them as above, which do seem familiar to our own football team.

I would hardly say I am full to the brim of sucess through our football team over the years, so what I was trying to say is its shite, whilst I think Big Fat Ron was suggesting it was acceptable!

 

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[Calista]

As I understand it we’re not talking about profits here, merely revenues.

Wasps have gained control of the stadium business through the remarkable strategy of making an acceptable bid for it. CCFC get match-day revenues by virtue of paying an annual rental fee to Wasps, and presumably the rent we pay counts as revenue for them.

Why can’t the same principle apply to NON-match-day revenues? If we now paid Wasps annually for the rights to some of the activities/revenues, Wasps (as landlord) would be receiving a genuine income stream from CCFC, right? We would BOTH be getting the revenues.

Can someone (OSB?) please explain to me why that doesn’t work for both parties. Is it double-accounting or something? At the end of a long day, I will admit to having just consumed some cheap white wine, which might be stronger than it says on the bottle

 

[Ian1779]

Its not FFP in this league but SCMP ( see another thread ) and it says:

Turnover definition

Under the SCMP rules, the definition of 'Turnover' is particularly important as Turnover is used to determine the maximum wage-spend. Within a traditional accounting perspective, there are usually only three elements of turnover:

• Match-day Income
• Commercial Income (such as sponsorship)
• TV revenue (and any 'merit payments' based on league position)

However the Football League use a is broader definition of Turnover. Crucially, the FL Turnover figure includes donations from the owners to the club and injections of equity. Loans from club owners are understandably not included in the Turnover figure as these would result in growing club debts. up club debts. In League 1 and League 2, a wealthy owner can therefore fund the club spending in a way that is not permitted in other divisions. Manchester City and Leicester for example seem set for punishment for their excessive losses (from UEFA and the Championship respectively) despite the fact that the owners have injected hard cash into the club to finance the spending.

Yes you are right. However for the purposes of defining the term 'turnover' the SCMP use the same definitions for this as is used in the FFP document from UEFA. In this particular case we are referring to commercial income.

 

[The Gentleman]

Or above your pay grade.

Oh shit! I truly am in trouble if a man who flips burgers in KFC is telling me this

You still going to be CCFC's number 1 stay away fan this season?

 

[oldfiver]

Yes you are right. However for the purposes of defining the term 'turnover' the SCMP use the same definitions for this as is used in the FFP document from UEFA. In this particular case we are referring to commercial income.

What I cannot find is if this means "net income". If you purchase a building to generate rental income this is generally by way of a loan. The loan clearly needs servicing so does "income" mean the gross rentals received or after interest and similar costs.

 

[Astute]

Oh shit! I truly am in trouble if a man who flips burgers in KFC is telling me this

You still going to be CCFC's number 1 stay away fan this season?

Remember he only says about what he earns when you wind him up about something like he said I did. He said he would never mention it in the slightest otherwise. Can you remember what you said so I can find out what I might have said?

 

[italiahorse]

What contribution have you made other than one that suits your own personal financial agenda?

As regard to limited grasp if facts regarding a populated area - how populated was the gasworks site before the arena was constructed? Sites the other side and in rugby borough council are very similar in population demographic - just because you will not benefit financially others may.

Where are these sites in Rugby. An example will do.
FYI the gas works was surrounded by several estates plus the main feeder road from the M6 into Coventry.

Waiting ......

 

[Astute]

Where are these sites in Rugby. An example will do.
FYI the gas works was surrounded by several estates plus the main feeder road from the M6 into Coventry.

Waiting ......

I have heard Ansty on here. But other than getting planning permission it would need a direct road. This would cost about the same as building a stadium.

But why are we still arguing over this same old shite? No land purchased after over 2 years. No evidence other than a few mock pictures put together on a PC. Where SISU were supposedly looking kept moving as the FOI act questions were being asked. And finally we can't afford it.

 

[oldfiver]

Where are these sites in Rugby. An example will do.
FYI the gas works was surrounded by several estates plus the main feeder road from the M6 into Coventry.

Waiting ......

Did they say centre of Rugby? Remember Ryton is part of Rugby BC ( for example )

 

[chiefdave]

Where are these sites in Rugby. An example will do.
FYI the gas works was surrounded by several estates plus the main feeder road from the M6 into Coventry.

Broadstreet wouldn't be too dissimilar would it? You could probably make an argument for Ansty Business Park as well although the bulk of the housing there would be the other side of the showcase from any new ground.

 

[chiefdave]

I have heard Ansty on here. But other than getting planning permission it would need a direct road. This would cost about the same as building a stadium.

If I was in charge of this project my first choice site would be the bit of land bordered by the M69, Central Blvd into the business park and Hill Park Wood. The infrastructure is pretty much there, believe there's even an underpass already in place. Business Park could provide additional parking and there's already some food and drink places nearby on the showcase site. Its also as close as you can get to Cov without being in the city. Right next to Rolls Royce as well, Rolls Royce Arena anyone?

 

[duffer]

Where are these sites in Rugby. An example will do.
FYI the gas works was surrounded by several estates plus the main feeder road from the M6 into Coventry.

Waiting ......

We've already mentioned sites around Long Lawford/Church Lawford too, that might be possiblities. Currently mixed industrial/warehousing, just off the A45. Regardless of whether we should build a new stadium, it's daft to pretend that there aren't places where a stadium could be built.

 

[Astute]

If I was in charge of this project my first choice site would be the bit of land bordered by the M69, Central Blvd into the business park and Hill Park Wood. The infrastructure is pretty much there, believe there's even an underpass already in place. Business Park could provide additional parking and there's already some food and drink places nearby on the showcase site. Its also as close as you can get to Cov without being in the city. Right next to Rolls Royce as well, Rolls Royce Arena anyone?

That would be a 'money no object' build. The land wouldn't be cheap. If we are going to build somewhere the land will have to be cheap. I suppose that is why a lot of the new grounds are built away from where they would be better off being.

 

[chiefdave]

That would be a 'money no object' build. The land wouldn't be cheap. If we are going to build somewhere the land will have to be cheap. I suppose that is why a lot of the new grounds are built away from where they would be better off being.

It's all a balancing act though isn't it. Land in the middle of nowhere is cheaper as there's little demand for it, it would then follow that other companies will be less likely to want to get involved in a deal similar to the one that saw Tesco contribute a large chunk to the Ricoh.

 

[Astute]

We've already mentioned sites around Long Lawford/Church Lawford too, that might be possiblities. Currently mixed industrial/warehousing, just off the A45. Regardless of whether we should build a new stadium, it's daft to pretend that there aren't places where a stadium could be built.

But being more realistic how about very close to Coventry, cheap, ready infrastructure and not greenbelt for starters.

 

[Moff]

But being more realistic how about very close to Coventry, cheap, ready infrastructure and not greenbelt for starters.

Ansty or Broadstreet.

 

[Astute]

It's all a balancing act though isn't it. Land in the middle of nowhere is cheaper as there's little demand for it, it would then follow that other companies will be less likely to want to get involved in a deal similar to the one that saw Tesco contribute a large chunk to the Ricoh.

Them days are gone. The big supermarket builds are about over. Tescos even pulled the plug on all new big stores. In a town near where I used to live they were building one. It just stopped and won't be going any further. And there isn't a single supermarket there so they would have made a killing. The last one there was Kwik Save. It was nearly always full.

 

[chiefdave]

Now Ann has decided we're going to be part of Birmingham there will be some new options for where we can build a ground!

 

[chiefdave]

Them days are gone. The big supermarket builds are about over. Tescos even pulled the plug on all new big stores. In a town near where I used to live they were building one. It just stopped and won't be going any further. And there isn't a single supermarket there so they would have made a killing. The last one there was Kwik Save. It was nearly always full.

Doesn't have to be a supermarket though, was just an example. Even with supermarkets in the right location they will still build. They've just started building a huge new Tesco near me despite the fact that within a few miles radius there is a Sainsbury, another Tesco, Asda and two Morrisons!

 

[Astute]

Ansty or Broadstreet.

So how much would a road cost to Ansty and how much would the land cost? And the road would have to go through greenbelt land so would take years to get permission. And without a road they would never get planning permission. So not affordable and not viable.

 

[Moff]

So how much would a road cost to Ansty and how much would the land cost? And the road would have to go through greenbelt land so would take years to get permission. And without a road they would never get planning permission. So not affordable and not viable.

Im not disgareeing with you! its just you asked where is near to Coventry and those two came to mind.

Re transport links I dont think it would all be down to the club, and think (although people may know more) that certain funds are avaialble for transportaion links/roads etc.

The Ansty site has been earmarked for development so isnt greenbelt as such, and there are already transport links set in place.

I still think its a non starter.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

We've already mentioned sites around Long Lawford/Church Lawford too, that might be possiblities. Currently mixed industrial/warehousing, just off the A45. Regardless of whether we should build a new stadium, it's daft to pretend that there aren't places where a stadium could be built.

Never fear, Long Lawford/Church Lawford isn't a possibility

 

[Deleted member 5849]

So how much would a road cost to Ansty and how much would the land cost? And the road would have to go through greenbelt land so would take years to get permission. And without a road they would never get planning permission. So not affordable and not viable.

There's already a bunch of roads into Ansty. They built them a couple (I say a couple, time flies! Many?!?) years ago off the A46.

 

[Astute]

Im not disgareeing with you! its just you asked where is near to Coventry and those two came to mind.

Re transport links I dont think it would all be down to the club, and think (although people may know more) that certain funds are avaialble for transportaion links/roads etc.

The Ansty site has been earmarked for development so isnt greenbelt as such, and there are already transport links set in place.

I still think its a non starter.

I asked where would be affordable and not on greenbelt land very close to Coventry, not just where is there enough land. It makes a massive difference.

And remember as part of the Ricoh build we had to pay for a bridge to be rebuilt. Cost a lot of money as well.

 

[Astute]

There's already a bunch of roads into Ansty. They built them a couple (I say a couple, time flies! Many?!?) years ago off the A46.

Enough to help getting planning permission? Brandon has roads. They are close to other big roads. Something could have been sorted. But it was a no go from the start because of the roads.

 

[duffer]

But being more realistic how about very close to Coventry, cheap, ready infrastructure and not greenbelt for starters.

There are mixed/industrial sites with reasonable infrastructure that could be redeveloped in RBC, and some have been highlighted here. Politely, just because they don't meet your preferences in terms of location etc. doesn't make them unrealistic.

I'm not for a moment saying that a new stadium is going to happen, but Wasps arrival certainly increases the probability of it (however remote), imho.

 

[Astute]

Never fear, Long Lawford/Church Lawford isn't a possibility

Not greenbelt, cheap land, very close to Coventry and good roads?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Enough to help getting planning permission? Brandon has roads. They are close to other big roads. Something could have been sorted. But it was a no go from the start because of the roads.

Yes.

Into a massive fuck off industrial park.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Not greenbelt, cheap land, very close to Coventry and good roads?

It's greenbelt arounf Church Lawford, and I challenge you to call the road to King's Newnham a good road.

Plus it's a flood plain...

It's only being suggested because it was mooted as a site for an airport. But that was a political play to make Heathrow's extra runway go through more smoothly.

Plus you'd then have issues with the Archaeology bunch getting involved, and the tower's a listed building.

Edit: Could maybe head for Dunsmore Heath, where the nuclear bunkers are, I suppose.

 

[Astute]

There are mixed/industrial sites with reasonable infrastructure that could be redeveloped in RBC, and some have been highlighted here. Politely, just because they don't meet your preferences in terms of location etc. doesn't make them unrealistic.

I'm not for a moment saying that a new stadium is going to happen, but Wasps arrival certainly increases the probability of it (however remote), imho.

Who said about my preferences? I mentioned what would be needed for us (SISU) to be able to afford it and for it to be able to get planning permission. This isn't me having a go at SISU/CCC/RBC or anyone else. This is just me being realistic. Or does price/location/infrastructure/planning permission not matter any more?

 

[Astute]

Yes.

Into a massive fuck off industrial park.

And a football crowd would have been turning up when an industrial site is least busy. Like a Saturday afternoon or midweek night.

 

[duffer]

Who said about my preferences? I mentioned what would be needed for us (SISU) to be able to afford it and for it to be able to get planning permission. This isn't me having a go at SISU/CCC/RBC or anyone else. This is just me being realistic. Or does price/location/infrastructure/planning permission not matter any more?

It's entirely relevant, but you're trying to say that it's impossible, perhaps because you'd like to believe it isn't going to happen.

But it clearly isn't impossible. There are locations in RBC where a stadium could be built, and a few have been highlighted here straight off the bat. It's a bit daft, imho, to say that it isn't possible.

Even PP is a moveable feast these days - look at where Brighton got their stadium built before saying that's it's impossible to get PP in the green belt.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

And a football crowd would have been turning up when an industrial site is least busy. Like a Saturday afternoon or midweek night.

Aye.

tbf Ansty is reasonably practical.

But the club's already ruled it out:facepalm:

 

[duffer]

It's greenbelt arounf Church Lawford, and I challenge you to call the road to King's Newnham a good road.

Plus it's a flood plain...

It's only being suggested because it was mooted as a site for an airport. But that was a political play to make Heathrow's extra runway go through more smoothly.

Plus you'd then have issues with the Archaeology bunch getting involved, and the tower's a listed building.

Edit: Could maybe head for Dunsmore Heath, where the nuclear bunkers are, I suppose.

We've been here before NW. I worked on a big industrial/warehousing/fleet movements site in Long Lawford close to where the Church Lawford airfield was. Plenty big enough to build a stadium on, and miles and miles away from the river, and about a mile off the A45. No floods there.

(Edit: Lawford Heath, sorry).

 

[Astute]

It's entirely relevant, but you're trying to say that it's impossible, perhaps because you'd like to believe it isn't going to happen.

But it clearly isn't impossible. There are locations in RBC where a stadium could be built, and a few have been highlighted here straight off the bat. It's a bit daft, imho, to say that it isn't possible.

Even PP is a moveable feast these days - look at where Brighton got their stadium built before saying that's it's impossible to get PP in the green belt.

Again you are trying to make out that I have said something I have not. I never said impossible. I said what would be best.

OK lets go for the opposite of what I said is what we need. It should keep you happy. Greenbelt, expensive land, no decent roads and nowhere near Coventry. Satisfied now?