Other income streams (7 Viewers)

[duffer]

Again you are trying to make out that I have said something I have not. I never said impossible. I said what would be best.

OK lets go for the opposite of what I said is what we need. It should keep you happy. Greenbelt, expensive land, no decent roads and nowhere near Coventry. Satisfied now?

No because that's a ridiculous as the pretence that there's nowhere to build a stadium in the whole of RBC's patch. Which I think we've shown is a bollocks argument, frankly.

Whether it makes sense financial sense or not is a different story entirely, but I get a bit tired of people saying "I don't want a new stadium so logically it can't happen".

 

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[duffer]

And a football crowd would have been turning up when an industrial site is least busy. Like a Saturday afternoon or midweek night.

Exactly as happens at Pride Park. Large commercial estate, football ground right in the middle. Seems to work, my office was based literally opposite it for five years and it didn't cause us too many problems.

 

[Astute]

No because that's a ridiculous as the pretence that there's nowhere to build a stadium in the whole of RBC's patch. Which I think we've shown is a bollocks argument, frankly.

Whether it makes sense financial sense or not is a different story entirely, but I get a bit tired of people saying "I don't want a new stadium so logically it can't happen".

Have I said that I don't want a new stadium?

What I said is that we need somewhere not greenbelt, cheap land, good infrastructure and close to Coventry. You then try to make out that I have said various other things. We need somewhere to call home. But we can't afford a lot if we can afford anything. And the further away from Coventry we are the more risky it is. It is hard to get planning permission on greenbelt land. And if the infrastructure isn't already there it makes it even harder. Or are you telling me that you disagree with this?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

We've been here before NW. I worked on a big industrial/warehousing/fleet movements site in Long Lawford close to where the Church Lawford airfield was. Plenty big enough to build a stadium on, and miles and miles away from the river, and about a mile off the A45. No floods there.

(Edit: Lawford Heath, sorry).

See nuclear bunkers

The people of Church Lawford would be very upset to be lumped in there

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The Dun Cow/Craisy Daisy's derelict, and they're trying to sell the house next to it, maybe we could build there?

There's also a gravel pit at Frog Hall to get the building material...

 

[Astute]

The Dun Cow/Craisy Daisy's derelict, and they're trying to sell the house next to it, maybe we could build there?

There's also a gravel pit at Frog Hall to get the building material...

How big is the house and land? :thinking about:

Anyway nite all. Got another night shift to do tonight. Should have been in bed hours ago but fancied a beer or few

 

[italiahorse]

I have heard Ansty on here. But other than getting planning permission it would need a direct road. This would cost about the same as building a stadium.

But why are we still arguing over this same old shite? No land purchased after over 2 years. No evidence other than a few mock pictures put together on a PC. Where SISU were supposedly looking kept moving as the FOI act questions were being asked. And finally we can't afford it.

I agree and hence the discussion put up by the OP

 

[italiahorse]

Did they say centre of Rugby? Remember Ryton is part of Rugby BC ( for example )

But areas like Ryton will have very little footfall for a 365 income.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But areas like Ryton will have very little footfall for a 365 income.

Depends what your income is...

 

[italiahorse]

We've already mentioned sites around Long Lawford/Church Lawford too, that might be possiblities. Currently mixed industrial/warehousing, just off the A45. Regardless of whether we should build a new stadium, it's daft to pretend that there aren't places where a stadium could be built.

But the discussion is about income streams whilst hiring the Ricoh against building a new stadium to generate incomes and servicing that stadium.
Out there would have limited footfall.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

As a general aside, the main problem with going for income elsewhere is it's a sticking plaster over a chainsaw attack.

The club, ultimately, stands or falls on its brand - (the W word) recognise that, it's why the ground is becoming branded as theirs. We've both neglected our brand, and had it neglected. The bricks and mortar go into that - would anybody have *ever* bought any of the tat we used to sell in the shop when we were good (overpriced over static jumpers for the Jedward look?) if it wasn't CCFC?

And the ground is the location of place, it focusses the gaze on that, it goes into making what a club is.

Open up something close by and you may get a drip, but it doesn't go to resolving that dislocation, so you're always struggling to jump over that hurdle and you're just picking up the scraps.

Any extra activities should be done in conjunction with a space and place to call your own, not instead of.

 

[chiefdave]

But areas like Ryton will have very little footfall for a 365 income.

How much footfall was there at the gasworks prior to the Ricoh site being built? How many people going to exhibitions, weddings etc just happen to be walking past and pop in to spend money?

The need for high footfall surely depends on what you are planning to build?

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

As a general aside, the main problem with going for income elsewhere is it's a sticking plaster over a chainsaw attack.

The club, ultimately, stands or falls on its brand - (the W word) recognise that, it's why the ground is becoming branded as theirs. We've both neglected our brand, and had it neglected. The bricks and mortar go into that - would anybody have *ever* bought any of the tat we used to sell in the shop when we were good (overpriced over static jumpers for the Jedward look?) if it wasn't CCFC?

And the ground is the location of place, it focusses the gaze on that, it goes into making what a club is.

Open up something close by and you may get a drip, but it doesn't go to resolving that dislocation, so you're always struggling to jump over that hurdle and you're just picking up the scraps.

Any extra activities should be done in conjunction with a space and place to call your own, not instead of.

I agree about the need for a "home" in order to build the brand and focus attention. Its just a question of whether that can be achieved within the confines of a rental agreement with Wa.... that rugby club. Perhaps if we were generating income from housing/retail/hotel etc independently of our match day revenue we might be in a better position to impose our identity on the stadium.

 

[Nick]

I agree about the need for a "home" in order to build the brand and focus attention. Its just a question of whether that can be achieved within the confines of a rental agreement with Wa.... that rugby club. Perhaps if we were generating income from housing/retail/hotel etc independently of our match day revenue we might be in a better position to impose our identity on the stadium.

So we should go into the housing business to make money? That is up there with the car dealership.

 

[italiahorse]

How much footfall was there at the gasworks prior to the Ricoh site being built? How many people going to exhibitions, weddings etc just happen to be walking past and pop in to spend money?

The need for high footfall surely depends on what you are planning to build?

So is it another £100M Ricoh or just an 18,000 stadium with a few offices?

 

[chiefdave]

So is it another £100M Ricoh or just an 18,000 stadium with a few offices?

I have no idea, do you? I would suggest that may be largely down to location. For example if a stadium was part of the University complex the type of facility that would generate the most income would be different to somewhere like Broadstreet. Also would need to consider proximity to the Ricoh, if it's close then little point in replicating the same facilities, would be better off going down another route.

My personal preference, and has been for the Ricoh site for that matter, was to create a sporting hub. A few years back there was talk of a new arena for Blaze as they were struggling to get enough practice time due to the SkyDome having on one ice pad. Of course something like that facility would work better with the cooperation of the council and could serve as a catalyst for regeneration.

For example the council own the Butts and I believe the sports centre / Olympics baths. Both I would say relatively valuable sites due to location. If a sporting hub was created you could have a new stadium for CRFC (would also be a good size for CCFC Ladies who currently play outside the city) and the youth sides, rink for the Blaze, sports centre, Olympic pool and potentially other things. Would most likely give access to funding and would provide CCFC with partners on the project. Would not be unreasonable to expect the council to smooth the way with planning and make a sizeable contribution if desirable sites in and around the city centre were being released.

Of course that would rely on the cooperation of CCC so a non starter, at least within the city boundary, but it shows that mirroring the Ricoh setup is not the only option.

 

[stupot07]

I agree about the need for a "home" in order to build the brand and focus attention. Its just a question of whether that can be achieved within the confines of a rental agreement with Wa.... that rugby club. Perhaps if we were generating income from housing/retail/hotel etc independently of our match day revenue we might be in a better position to impose our identity on the stadium.

I don't think it can be, our identify and branding will gradually erode away. There's an interesting article by a Wycombe fan about how their identity was effected by wasps.
http://www.shoot.co.uk/category/team/wycombe-to-go-it-alone/



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[italiahorse]

I have no idea, do you? I would suggest that may be largely down to location. For example if a stadium was part of the University complex the type of facility that would generate the most income would be different to somewhere like Broadstreet. Also would need to consider proximity to the Ricoh, if it's close then little point in replicating the same facilities, would be better off going down another route.

My personal preference, and has been for the Ricoh site for that matter, was to create a sporting hub. A few years back there was talk of a new arena for Blaze as they were struggling to get enough practice time due to the SkyDome having on one ice pad. Of course something like that facility would work better with the cooperation of the council and could serve as a catalyst for regeneration.

For example the council own the Butts and I believe the sports centre / Olympics baths. Both I would say relatively valuable sites due to location. If a sporting hub was created you could have a new stadium for CRFC (would also be a good size for CCFC Ladies who currently play outside the city) and the youth sides, rink for the Blaze, sports centre, Olympic pool and potentially other things. Would most likely give access to funding and would provide CCFC with partners on the project. Would not be unreasonable to expect the council to smooth the way with planning and make a sizeable contribution if desirable sites in and around the city centre were being released.

Of course that would rely on the cooperation of CCC so a non starter, at least within the city boundary, but it shows that mirroring the Ricoh setup is not the only option.

I have no idea but I would hazard a guess that at L1 level we could not finance much of a complex.
The OP says can we not hire the Ricoh and generate incomes 365 elsewhere.
Why do we need to own a stadium with it's financing and running costs ?
Still to be answered by Sisu.

We need to higher our profile by getting out this league and then incomes increase logarithmically.
At the moment all big sponsors will go with Wasps but things will change round when we get back in the PL.
In the mean time we need to carry on where we are and look at the possibilities say in 2 years time.
Nothing wrong with Sisu looking at these possibilities but at this point in time it's not a plan that can be achieved.
We should treat the Ricoh as our home until an alternative is put on the table.
That includes personalising the areas in and around the stadium to improve the matchday experience.

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

So we should go into the housing business to make money? That is up there with the car dealership.

I'm not saying that we should or shouldn't. The club needs a greater level of income in order to make it sustainable. The chance to own the Ricoh has gone and building a new stadium looks to be far from straightforward so surely we must consider alternatives.

 

[Grendel]

I have no idea but I would hazard a guess


[/COLOR]

You should put this at the start of every post you make.

 

[Esoterica]

The Dun Cow/Craisy Daisy's derelict, and they're trying to sell the house next to it, maybe we could build there?

There's also a gravel pit at Frog Hall to get the building material...

So that's the pitch sorted, is there a deckchair shop near by for seats?

 

[chiefdave]

Why do we need to own a stadium with it's financing and running costs ?
Still to be answered by Sisu.

Unfortunately italia on this occasion Fisher is being backed up in his assertion that to be successful above our current level with need stadium ownership or at least full revenue access. The 'experts' hauled out by the CT and CWR have said the same as have Wasps who have stated they had to move and gain stadium ownership or they would have gone out of business.

We need to higher our profile by getting out this league and then incomes increase logarithmically.

Income would indeed increase, however if we wish to be competitive expenditure would need to increase at a rate much greater than income.

At the moment all big sponsors will go with Wasps but things will change round when we get back in the PL.

I won't argue with you there, Wasps being in the city is hugely damaging for CCFC and CRFC. We simply aren't going to get back into the PL as a tenant of Wasps, barring an absolute miracle or a billionaire owner coming in.

 

[italiahorse]

Unfortunately italia on this occasion Fisher is being backed up in his assertion that to be successful above our current level with need stadium ownership or at least full revenue access. The 'experts' hauled out by the CT and CWR have said the same as have Wasps who have stated they had to move and gain stadium ownership or they would have gone out of business.


Income would indeed increase, however if we wish to be competitive expenditure would need to increase at a rate much greater than income.



I won't argue with you there, Wasps being in the city is hugely damaging for CCFC and CRFC. We simply aren't going to get back into the PL as a tenant of Wasps, barring an absolute miracle or a billionaire owner coming in.

You may be right but it should not stop us giving it a go.

 

[italiahorse]

You should put this at the start of every post you make.

... and you should put this in yours

I have no idea but I won't hazard a guess

 

[Grendel]

You may be right but it should not stop us giving it a go.

What does giving a go mean? Accepting the restrictions and limitations of the position you are in, keeping your head down and hoping for better times?

 

[italiahorse]

What does giving a go mean? Accepting the restrictions and limitations of the position you are in, keeping your head down and hoping for better times?

Realising where we are, concentrating on the things we can influence and not worrying about the things we can't.

What pay grade are you at, that was one of the first Jaguar management principles I adopted?

 

[Grendel]

What pay grade are you at, that was one of the first Jaguar management principles I adopted?

Which is why the business was a basket case until someone came in and committed a structure that made the company competitive on a global scale.

The John Egan days of just "giving it a go" almost put the company out of business.

 

[Warwickhunt]

I might be talking out of my arse here but I was reading something this morning that sparked half an idea in the 'ol grey matter.

The article was about a small business that had diversified in order to survive the crash, realising that their premises were only used for their core business Monday to Friday they made use of the space to host events and stuff over the weekends...................seems like a good idea, broaden your scope etc, better chances of survival. Everyone with me so far........................ sounds a bit like a football stadium doesnt it.

Thing is, i also read something the other day (check me out with the learning!) from some football chairman or other, doesnt matter who, who was saying that stadiums are as much a hindrance as a help to a club because they are big and expensive to maintain and while you can use them for other stuff to boost your income they are limited as to what you can do with them and using them for concerts etc can knacker your pitch causing you more problems..........

So, if you are still awake, my question is this. Does the club really need a stadium in order to earn additional income? What if that income could come from other sources.........

Whats to stop the club buying up land and opening it as a car park or a leisure centre, shops or even building houses on it? Is there anything that says a football club cant own office space to rent out etc? The Ricoh will hopefully be getting a train station soon but someone has to run the franchise for the trains, what if the club owned that franchise and the profits from the fairs went back in to the club?

Like I say, perhaps there are all sorts of reasons why those things cant or shouldnt happen, i am no expert in any of this, but it does seem that building a new stadium is both difficult and expensive and counter productive when the Ricoh is already there. So if we can play at the Ricoh for a reasonable rent but have no responsibility for its upkeep AND still make money from owning other assets then wouldnt that make a lot more sense?

Upgrading from a Decorators Paste table to sell club merchandise might help generate extra income????

 

[Grendel]

Upgrading from a Decorators Paste table to sell club merchandise might help generate extra income????

At what costs from wasps holdings ltd?

 

[Hobo]

Can I just interject in this productive debate.

until SISU come up with a site or buy some land or even commit to some sort of rental at The Ricoh; only then can we start to analyse the possibilities. At the moment it is no more than a 6th form economic debate.

SISU have made contradictory statements, probably for all sorts of reasons. Until they sit down and decide the path they want to take and actually start putting things in place; only then can we start to judge.

I honestly think they don't have a clue what to do? Perhaps TM will start to harden some of their limp ideas.

 

[italiahorse]

Which is why the business was a basket case until someone came in and committed a structure that made the company competitive on a global scale.

The John Egan days of just "giving it a go" almost put the company out of business.

Before my time.
Mind you things must have changed if people have time to hold day long conversations from there computers.
Senor Managers like I was, and you profess to be, would not be looking at their phones all day like a Macdonalds trainee.

 

[italiahorse]

Can I just interject in this productive debate.

until SISU come up with a site or buy some land or even commit to some sort of rental at The Ricoh; only then can we start to analyse the possibilities. At the moment it is no more than a 6th form economic debate.

SISU have made contradictory statements, probably for all sorts of reasons. Until they sit down and decide the path they want to take and actually start putting things in place; only then can we start to judge.

I honestly think they don't have a clue what to do? Perhaps TM will start to harden some of their limp ideas.

They seem to have want us to follow blindly when we have seen no figures on financing the new stadium, what rental we might have to pay on it, and what percentage of incomes we can expect from it. We will continue with our own limited knowledge (guesses) until they put down some firm plans.

 

[Nick]

Before my time.
Mind you things must have changed if people have time to hold day long conversations from there computers.
Senor Managers like I was, and you profess to be, would not be looking at their phones all day like a Macdonalds trainee.

You would be surprised, ive worked in IT in big companies watching what most people do online. Senior managers usually have their own office so nobody looking at their screen.

 

[Nick]

They seem to have want us to follow blindly when we have seen no figures on financing the new stadium, what rental we might have to pay on it, and what percentage of incomes we can expect from it. We will continue with our own limited knowledge (guesses) until they put down some firm plans.

But you must be following blindly to stay at the Ricoh without knowing what is going to happen etc?

 

[italiahorse]

At what costs from wasps holdings ltd?

Ask, like any business would do.
Get a mobile unit if necessary and tow it in. I could do it why can't the club ?