DerekFaulkner
New Member
Blimey, 14 pages of total drivel about a player that won't be signing for us.
Ched Evans (18 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gint11
- Start date
You've made it 15!
standupforcity
Well-Known Member
Great but what is the 'panic button' url etc...before you can make changes!
Otis
Well-Known Member
I'm sure we had 40 page posts about our making the top 6 last season and that was never going to happen either.
Did Bristol City turn up with MK Dons and pizza, MK Dons said they were steaming (but didn't look it on the CCTV footage!) and then have Preston to crash it at the last minute?
Samo
Well-Known Member
I hope you have a tin hat Trench?
Hobo
Well-Known Member
"If Adolf Hitler, flew in today, they'd send a limousine anyway". The Clash
duffer
Well-Known Member
Before anyone here gets too confused about what 'consent' means, trouble yourself to read this article.
http://selenenelson.co.uk/rapist-ched-evans-issue-consent/
There isn't anywhere near as much doubt as I think some would like to believe here.
http://selenenelson.co.uk/rapist-ched-evans-issue-consent/
There isn't anywhere near as much doubt as I think some would like to believe here.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Probably the most sensible post on the whole thread.
Samo
Well-Known Member
There must have been a good party somewhere for Christs sake!
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
Astute, well there is a lot to consider and I don't want to make this thread any bigger than it is. Otis has alluded to some but to answer you on a couple: She went back to the hotel the next day to collect her handbag. The reception told her she was with two footballers last night (she did not know they were footballers the night before) Then she cry's rape. Also the night porter was outside the door listening at the room because he knew there were sexual stuff going on in the hotel and he says what he heard there were sounds of normal frivolity and sex but definitely no cry's of help or resistance. Blood test showed she was not so drunk that she would be off her head and not know what she was doing as she claimed later. There's a whole lot more but it should be said I don't support the guy playing for our club at this moment in time. If he clears his name then I will change my mind.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I find it truly astonishing that, after being tried in a court of law, and having also had appeals against that conviction thrown out, the onus is put onto the girl to prove her innocence and doubt is cast on her.
Actually, astonishing is not the word.
Actually, astonishing is not the word.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
thems the rules
Astute
Well-Known Member
You been listening to Evans?
She didn't bring the prosecution. The police did. If there was as much doubt as you say he would have been found not guilty. The CCTV saw her helped into the room as she was too pissed to walk by herself. But you say she wasn't that bad?
Explain what he was doing there then. He didn't turn up with them. The text sent to him said she was legless.
usskyblue
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the world. I could tell you things that would further curl your mullet
robbieray
Well-Known Member
Can u tell me cause I'm bald as a coot
The same CCTV footage showing her forgetting her bag and then going back for the pizzas?
I'm not suggesting CE is another Brian Banks. I don't know enough about the case. However, I think the number of false accusations (way over a hundred have been prosecuted in the last few years - a small drop compared to the number of offences that do not go prosecuted) and the way these cases are so poorly handled (the very fact people are debating it on here is testament to that!) It all detracts from the poor, frightened and vulnerable women who have never had people care about their case, who have never had their attacker convicted, who have never had the police push forward with prosecutions...at worst, have never come forward for fear of not being heard.
The system is more than flawed, just look at the cases of Stefan Kiszko or Michael Shirley to see that. So using that as an example is poor at best.
Cases like this, and tweets about holidays and pink Minis really set a serious cause back!
Astute
Well-Known Member
So CCTV showing her the next morning going back to the room for her handbag should have her in the same state as when she turned up pissed? :thinking about:
A small amount of people have doubt. A small amount of us would have him at our club if he finally managed to win one of his appeals. A small amount of people would have him at our club whatever as they are desperate for quality players. Most people see him as guilty until proved innocent by a court of law as a court of law and a jury has already found him guilty. Most people don't want him anywhere near our club. And it isn't just our club. It is the same at every club. That is why it is being debated.
OK shall we put it another way. You have a daughter. She meets someone and goes to a hotel with someone when she is intoxicated. Someone else turns up an hour or more and has sex with her. You won't mind as she walks out of the room the next morning and then goes back for her handbag.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Look, I don't wish to get into this too much at all, the bloke was found guilty and that's that. Until he provides concrete evidence that shows the conviction was unsafe he remains guilty, it has been stated though by Evans' defence team that the girl's statement to the police was that she wasn't drunk, but was just tipsy.
Apparently his appeal application will be judged upon in the next couple of weeks, so we will see if he has any grounds at all for the conviction to be quashed.
Nick
Administrator
Wasn't the CCTV of the night time he is talking about when she got there?
Otis
Well-Known Member
Think it was.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So she was sober enough to walk unaided but the staff saw her as being very unsteady on her feet?
The CCTV is from a multi-cam system so only captures an image from each camera in rotation, resulting in a frame per second rather than continuous footage at 25fps, so her level of steadiness shouldn't be judged solely on the footage.
Evans team seem to be cherry picking, rather than looking at the collective information .
I've been in situations where I've been so drunk I've had no recollection of how the night ended but managed to get home or to a hotel unaided. If I'd be the victim of crime, such as a robbery, would it have been my fault? The suspect would be not guilty because I was pissed?
duffer
Well-Known Member
She went to the hotel room with one man, Clayton. He (not the girl) invited Evans to join in via a telephone message. Evans then invited his brother and another man to flim them.
The girl was so drunk that she'd already fallen over in front of Evans, and had actually lost her handbag earlier in the night - it wasn't at the hotel. (This was actually why she went to the police in the first place, to report the loss of her handbag.)
She woke up in the hotel, naked, and covered in vomit and urine with no clear idea of what had happened to her. That should provide a pretty clear indication of how drunk she was or wasn't.
Here's the key point, which you and many others seem to be missing. The law states that consent from someone incapable of meaningful consent is not consent - this isn't about cries for help.
The same people here asking that we shouldn't 'judge' Evans are making judgements of the neutral judge and jury in both the original trial and the appeal, and also of the character of the victim here.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Think the way to look at it is, she may have shown herself to not be of very good character in all this sutuation, but is STILL a victim and that is what is paramount to this sorry saga.
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stupot07
Well-Known Member
Otis, I think you're being slightly niaive here. It's the job of Evan's defence to a) try and get him off, that's what he's employed them to do, and to do that they b) have to try and discredit the main witness, who also happens to be the victim. So the defence team is going to say she was only tipsy, to discredit her statement and dismantle the main reason it was rape.
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Well said Duffer. I'm just staggered that you needed to point it out in the first place.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Not naive Stu. His defence team say they have the police report that states she said she was tipsy and not drunk. They say they atually have the police report.Otis, I think you're being slightly niaive here. It's the job of Evan's defence to a) try and get him off, that's what he's employed them to do, and to do that thtipsyey b) have to try and discredit the main witness, who also happens to be the victim. So the defence team is going to say she was only tipsy, to discredit her statement and dismantle the main reason it was rape.
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D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
This is a thoroughly depressing thread, isn't it.
Some things need to be re-iterated.
There is no doubt in his conviction, he has been convicted.
There is no doubt in his conviction. His appeal was rejected: http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/aug/21/ched-evans-loses-rape-appeal
There is no doubt about his conviction. His appeal against the appeal ruling was rejected.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-Ched-Evans-loses-rape-conviction-appeal.html
On the remotely small chance he ever clears his name going forward, there would naturally be doubt in his conviction. However, this has not happened. Only one person is casting aspersions about the girl's character, and that's the person who needs to do so for their own reputation. Unfortunately, him doing that makes him look even lower as a human being.
I'm reminded of King, who was released, and then made a big thing about an appeal, while snide remarks were made about the girl. The sole motivation for that was to smooth a way to re-starting his career, make it seem he might not be quite so bad as he appeared. That approach, however, did nothing other than show he was not a reformed character, had not learned from his mistakes. Subsequent events with him proved that to be the case.
We're not signing Evans, we won't be signing Evans, but what's truly saddening is the desire to throw mud on his behalf.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
And this is from several hours after the attack took place. The funny thing with alcohol is that people sober up.
One more question. If the police say she was only tipsy why did they prosecute Evans saying she was in no fit state at the time of the attack? Sounds to me like they have about run out of straws to clutch to.