Samo
Well-Known Member
As will I... if you can offer any more than 'the small amount of overturned cases that go through the legal system' which is not evidence and incredibly naive by the way.
Ched Evans (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gint11
- Start date
As will I... if you can offer any more than 'the small amount of overturned cases that go through the legal system' which is not evidence and incredibly naive by the way.
Samo
Well-Known Member
No it is not and I have every sympathy for her. But history shows us that cases can take decades of appeal before resolution. Maybe we should mind our business and let the legal process continue?
Moff
Well-Known Member
Do you know what Samo you started the ridiculous and naive comments by stating that miscarraiges happen all the time. Wheres the evidence of this, where are your facts?
My comment isnt naive, its fairly accurate, and I havent seen anything except your conspiracies to prove it wrong.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
We certainly shouldn't be sat here discussing how drunk she was, and whether the noises out of a hotel room were that of pleasure or something else.
Samo
Well-Known Member
Just google miscarriages of justice and have a look ffs! Is it a conspiracy theory to suggest there may be more cases that have not ended well? Or just common sense?
Otis
Well-Known Member
No we shouldn't.
To my mind the only case he could have is if he could prove that she consented and she was happy bagging two footballers for the night.
Samo
Well-Known Member
Maybe we shouldn't be discussing it at all and maybe it is not a suitable topic for a footy forum. Having said that, it has been an interesting debate.
Moff
Well-Known Member
Google will show a tiny percentage of cases compared to the huge amount that actually go through the legal justice system. I am not saying miscarraiges dont happen but it is a very very tiny percentage of cases. I am not attacking what you said, I am just trying to show the reality.
I speak from personal knowledge of the legal justice system, through many years, not from google, nor naivity.
Thank you for the debate, but I think I will call it a day.
Astute
Well-Known Member
There is plenty wrong with this case.
His girlfriend stayed with him after undeniably having a sexual encounter with another woman and everyone knows about it. Her dad is paying for all the legal costs incurred by Evans.
Either they are very understanding or Evans is an excellent bullshitter.
His girlfriend stayed with him after undeniably having a sexual encounter with another woman and everyone knows about it. Her dad is paying for all the legal costs incurred by Evans.
Either they are very understanding or Evans is an excellent bullshitter.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Yup, even if you take what he says as 100% accurate, you have to wonder just what goes through her mind to think this is the bloke she wants to be with!
Otis
Well-Known Member
The latter I would guess.
How on earth she has stood by him is beyond me. Even if he was found not guilty of rape, he is definitely guilty of behaving like an arrogant shit.
Absolutely.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
Question for Nick. Why has this Ched Evans topic been continued on this ccfc site when ages ago it clearly moved from a ccfc topic to one of rape or wasn't it rape. If i place a thread on here on lets say the killing of the people last week in that church in America you will move it and quick ?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
So you are an apologist for rape? Nice!
H
Huckerby
Guest
How'd you figure that one out?
Otis
Well-Known Member
To be fair to Nick, this started off as a 'might be signing Ched Evans' thread. It has now moved on to the degree of obnoxiousness of the guy. Does Nick move it? What if someone then posts another post about a further rumour of him signing for us? Does Nick then move it back again?
With all the will in the world it is not an exact science and feel I have to defence Nick on this.
Maybe other threads have been moved too quickly, I'm not sure. But on this thread, if it continues to have longevity, then someone is bound sure to go back to the bloke's footballing ability and why they would want Ched Evans here. It is then back on topic.
Samo
Well-Known Member
Because that is the way the law works - Innocent until proven guilty.
Samo
Well-Known Member
NW; In the cold light of day, do you stand by this remark?
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Exactly- he has already been found guilty.
Otis
Well-Known Member
stupot07
Well-Known Member
But he has already been found guilty beyond reasonable doubt and had two appeals rejected.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Otis
Well-Known Member
Well, the way it works is that she has to convince the police that she was raped. Once she has done that, there should be little onus on her at all (other than having to appear in court) and all the onus should then only be on the defendant and the prosecution attempting to make the charge stick and prove it beyond reasonable doubt.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
No he takes an educated view to where this thread lies surely. Personally i would welcome other topics than ccfc related issues on this site, certainly during the close season, but although this started as a "are we signing Ched Evans" it soon diverted from that. On your theory i could start a thread "are we are signing Lionel Messi" but end up talking about Argentina's rights to the Falkland Islands.
Otis
Well-Known Member
But he has already been found guilty beyond reasonable doubt and had two appeals rejected.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Best thing that can happen now I would say is that the CCRC view the fresh 'evidence' they are considering at the moment and hopefully dismiss it, to finally put an end to this tawdry saga.
Otis
Well-Known Member
It's not a theory. Read through all the threads of the past 5 years. Happens regularly on a daily basis.
That's exactly what does happen.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/why-are-rapists-not-convicted-uk-1432600
Why is Rape Conviction Rate so Low in UK?
Rape statistics
One in 20 women under the age of 60 have been raped or sexually assaulted in their lifetimeReuters
Conviction rates for rape in the UK are among the lowest in Europe, according to shocking new statistics.
Only 1,070 rapists are convicted of their crime – despite the fact that 12,000 men and 85,000 women on average are raped in England and Wales every year.
In fact, one in 20 women under the age of 60 have been raped or sexually assaulted during their lifetime – the equivalent of 800,000 victims.
The figures have come from new research led by the Ministry of Justice, the Office for National Statistics and the Home Office, which reveals that an average of just 15,670 rapes are reported to the police.
]The number of attacks reported to the police remains low, due to the misconceptions surrounding rape and sexual attacks. Many women are too embarrassed to come forward and detail their attack to others.
Unfortunately, there is still a tendency to blame the victim in society - and many of those who are attacked do not trust the justice system to hold their rapists accountable.
According to the research, there are huge delays in successfully convicting a suspect. In cases where the defendant pleads not guilty, it takes an average of two years to reach a final verdict, during which the survivor must repeat and relive the trauma.
There is an average delay of 2 years to each a court verdict on a rape caseReuters
Katie Russell, from Rape Crisis, said that while the government, police and the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) have "shown commitment in improving this situation there is still more that clearly needs to be done".
One of the main issues is attrition – the high number of sexual violence victims who currently drop out of the criminal justice system between reporting the incident and it reaching the court.
"Through our extensive experience of supporting women and girls in particular who've experienced rape and other forms of sexual violence, we within the Rape Crisis movement know that among the reasons for this are: victims not feeling believed and respected by the police and other statutory agencies; their not being kept informed during the process; and, crucially, the length of time that the criminal justice process can take," said Russell.
She advised that specialist training should be undertaken by prosecutors and judges to educate them about prejudicial myths and misinformation around sexual violence that could disadvantage a victim. For example, ensuring jurors understand it is common for survivors to take a long time to fully detail their experience and confide in someone.
As Russell emphasised, the delay "does not necessarily mean that they are lying".
She added: "Similarly, jurors could benefit from understanding how someone who has experienced trauma might present or act in court and, again, recognising that this behaviour is not an indicator that they are lying. Rape conviction rates cannot be improved overnight but it is essential that there be joint ongoing commitment to improving justice for survivors of sexual violence."
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Why is Rape Conviction Rate so Low in UK?
Rape statistics
One in 20 women under the age of 60 have been raped or sexually assaulted in their lifetimeReuters
Conviction rates for rape in the UK are among the lowest in Europe, according to shocking new statistics.
Only 1,070 rapists are convicted of their crime – despite the fact that 12,000 men and 85,000 women on average are raped in England and Wales every year.
In fact, one in 20 women under the age of 60 have been raped or sexually assaulted during their lifetime – the equivalent of 800,000 victims.
The figures have come from new research led by the Ministry of Justice, the Office for National Statistics and the Home Office, which reveals that an average of just 15,670 rapes are reported to the police.
]The number of attacks reported to the police remains low, due to the misconceptions surrounding rape and sexual attacks. Many women are too embarrassed to come forward and detail their attack to others.
Unfortunately, there is still a tendency to blame the victim in society - and many of those who are attacked do not trust the justice system to hold their rapists accountable.
According to the research, there are huge delays in successfully convicting a suspect. In cases where the defendant pleads not guilty, it takes an average of two years to reach a final verdict, during which the survivor must repeat and relive the trauma.
There is an average delay of 2 years to each a court verdict on a rape caseReuters
Katie Russell, from Rape Crisis, said that while the government, police and the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) have "shown commitment in improving this situation there is still more that clearly needs to be done".
One of the main issues is attrition – the high number of sexual violence victims who currently drop out of the criminal justice system between reporting the incident and it reaching the court.
"Through our extensive experience of supporting women and girls in particular who've experienced rape and other forms of sexual violence, we within the Rape Crisis movement know that among the reasons for this are: victims not feeling believed and respected by the police and other statutory agencies; their not being kept informed during the process; and, crucially, the length of time that the criminal justice process can take," said Russell.
She advised that specialist training should be undertaken by prosecutors and judges to educate them about prejudicial myths and misinformation around sexual violence that could disadvantage a victim. For example, ensuring jurors understand it is common for survivors to take a long time to fully detail their experience and confide in someone.
As Russell emphasised, the delay "does not necessarily mean that they are lying".
She added: "Similarly, jurors could benefit from understanding how someone who has experienced trauma might present or act in court and, again, recognising that this behaviour is not an indicator that they are lying. Rape conviction rates cannot be improved overnight but it is essential that there be joint ongoing commitment to improving justice for survivors of sexual violence."
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
So long as Nick is consistent but somehow I doubt that
Samo
Well-Known Member
But he has already been found guilty beyond reasonable doubt and had two appeals rejected.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Yes. And there may be a third appeal and even a fourth.
Samo
Well-Known Member
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/why-are-rapists-not-convicted-uk-1432600
Why is Rape Conviction Rate so Low in UK?
Rape statistics
One in 20 women under the age of 60 have been raped or sexually assaulted in their lifetimeReuters
Conviction rates for rape in the UK are among the lowest in Europe, according to shocking new statistics.
Only 1,070 rapists are convicted of their crime – despite the fact that 12,000 men and 85,000 women on average are raped in England and Wales every year.
In fact, one in 20 women under the age of 60 have been raped or sexually assaulted during their lifetime – the equivalent of 800,000 victims.
The figures have come from new research led by the Ministry of Justice, the Office for National Statistics and the Home Office, which reveals that an average of just 15,670 rapes are reported to the police.
]The number of attacks reported to the police remains low, due to the misconceptions surrounding rape and sexual attacks. Many women are too embarrassed to come forward and detail their attack to others.
Unfortunately, there is still a tendency to blame the victim in society - and many of those who are attacked do not trust the justice system to hold their rapists accountable.
According to the research, there are huge delays in successfully convicting a suspect. In cases where the defendant pleads not guilty, it takes an average of two years to reach a final verdict, during which the survivor must repeat and relive the trauma.
There is an average delay of 2 years to each a court verdict on a rape caseReuters
Katie Russell, from Rape Crisis, said that while the government, police and the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) have "shown commitment in improving this situation there is still more that clearly needs to be done".
One of the main issues is attrition – the high number of sexual violence victims who currently drop out of the criminal justice system between reporting the incident and it reaching the court.
"Through our extensive experience of supporting women and girls in particular who've experienced rape and other forms of sexual violence, we within the Rape Crisis movement know that among the reasons for this are: victims not feeling believed and respected by the police and other statutory agencies; their not being kept informed during the process; and, crucially, the length of time that the criminal justice process can take," said Russell.
She advised that specialist training should be undertaken by prosecutors and judges to educate them about prejudicial myths and misinformation around sexual violence that could disadvantage a victim. For example, ensuring jurors understand it is common for survivors to take a long time to fully detail their experience and confide in someone.
As Russell emphasised, the delay "does not necessarily mean that they are lying".
She added: "Similarly, jurors could benefit from understanding how someone who has experienced trauma might present or act in court and, again, recognising that this behaviour is not an indicator that they are lying. Rape conviction rates cannot be improved overnight but it is essential that there be joint ongoing commitment to improving justice for survivors of sexual violence."
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
All of that is appalling and sad but it does not mean there cannot be an unsafe conviction for that crime.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Guilty as proven a few times but innocent as soon as there is a bit of doubt?
If this 'new evidence ' is so important why has it not been used by his defence team the previous 3 times?
Otis
Well-Known Member
That is ridiculous though. Unless there is concrete, substantial evidence, the appeal process shouldn't keep going on like this. The victim needs to know justice was done and put it all behind them.
Yes, there are some wrongful convictions, but I just wonder how many people appeal just to get off and not because they are innocent.