torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Helps if the headline matches the story. Invariably, in the CT it doesn't.
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Back to Court on Wednesday 8th July 2015 (18 Viewers)
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SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
If the headline told the whole story, there wouldn't be the need for a story would there?
Headlines always have, and always will be, a tool to attract the attention of readers.
Thanks for reading.
Nick
Administrator
But surely the headline should match the story? I don't think it should tell the whole story, but at least make sense when you read the headline then the actual story.
SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
I can't think of an article I've written where it doesn't indicate what the story is about. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but it would be a rare mistake. I don't write everything though.
Also this "taxpayer cost" line. Why do you assume people will be angry at the club's owners for this?
Most taxpayers are not CCFC fans. All they will care about is if the council has conducted itself in a way which ends up bankrupting the city.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you should push that philosophy on some of the threads on here?
Nick
Administrator
Is that a serious question? Read some of the threads on here and the comments on the Telegraph site...
Oh and I wasn't saying it was you personally sat there writing all of the headlines
Nick
Administrator
I often edit Thread titles, like the ones where people do things like "So and so signs" then the first post is "for blackpool..."
SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
Is that a serious question? Read some of the threads on here and the comments on the Telegraph site...
Oh and I wasn't saying it was you personally sat there writing all of the headlines
Don't mistake people who comment on the Telegraph site, this forum or other online platforms for "most people".
Social media is not the real world. The internet gets angry easily - and not necessarily about the right things. And it can be pretty racist!
Nick
Administrator
Of course I understand there will be mentalists, but suggesting that people won't be angry at SISU if it is ruled the council have to give them shed loads of money is either a bit naive or a bit naughty
Even people not online on places like this are just as taken in, often because they don't see other peoples comments and just take the article (not just the telegraph) as gospel it sometimes make their views reliant on one document.
ie. Bloke at the gym who was telling me it was all down to SISU, they just had to buy the Higgs half and then Wasps would sell them the rest
If anything, people who don't use this site and others are sometimes a bit more naive when it comes to what they take with a pinch of salt or not.
Then there are just the people who aren't bothered about politics and totally switch off and just go and watch their team.
duffer
Well-Known Member
What a mess. The deal to sell the Ricoh to Wasps doesn't look anywhere near as good for the City if it ends up costing the council more than they got for it.
Just to be clear here, regardless of how I feel about what's gone on I don't want millions of pounds of Council money ending up in SISU's pockets either. Even if it benefitted the club directly (which I doubt), there are still far more important things for the Council to be spending money on.
If I was to ask one thing of the CET though, it's that this shouldn't just be told as a tale of SISU's wickedness - even though that plays well to the public. They need to scrutinise closely the actions of those at the Council who took us down this road too.
Just to be clear here, regardless of how I feel about what's gone on I don't want millions of pounds of Council money ending up in SISU's pockets either. Even if it benefitted the club directly (which I doubt), there are still far more important things for the Council to be spending money on.
If I was to ask one thing of the CET though, it's that this shouldn't just be told as a tale of SISU's wickedness - even though that plays well to the public. They need to scrutinise closely the actions of those at the Council who took us down this road too.
SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
Of course I understand there will be mentalists, but suggesting that people won't be angry at SISU if it is ruled the council have to give them shed loads of money is either a bit naive or a bit naughty
Even people not online on places like this are just as taken in, often because they don't see other peoples comments and just take the article (not just the telegraph) as gospel it sometimes make their views reliant on one document.
ie. Bloke at the gym who was telling me it was all down to SISU, they just had to buy the Higgs half and then Wasps would sell them the rest
If anything, people who don't use this site and others are sometimes a bit more naive when it comes to what they take with a pinch of salt or not.
Then there are just the people who aren't bothered about politics and totally switch off and just go and watch their team.
I'm not suggesting people won't be angry with Sisu.
Different people will be angry with different parties to varying degrees. That's because there's no clear right or wrong party here.
Nick
Administrator
So people will be angry with them?
I agree, I am not saying it is a case of "oh you should be angry with only this side".
My point is that it is worded to read that big bad SISU are going to huff and puff and take the tax payers money. Surely it is a case of If CCC are ruled to have done something wrong, then compensation may be awarded. I know you need to sell papers, but surely you will know that an article can mean the same, give the same information but change a few words about and the perception is a lot different?
The same as it is about the children's charity who are hard done by (until Wasps strolled in and then it didn't matter)
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Have the telegraph ever done a piece on the Council's role in all this fiasco?
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My view, for what it is worth:
Sisu have been in this from the outset to make money for investors - no more, no less. They are unlikely to be particulalry fussed as to where that money comes from. If it is the case that this money comes from public funds and then goes to tax free off shore accounts, then Sisu and their invrstors won't be too fussed, as after all, money is money
CCC will have allowed themesleves to be put into a postion where this outcome, however seemingly unlikely over the years. has been allowed to transpire. They then need to be held accountable for allowing this happen - would be interesteing to know the view of the Local Govt Association and Dept for Communities and Local Govt.
Does CCFC gain? - no (if anything being used as a tool to make money in this way will send the Club to Coventry so to speak, with the local electorate)
Do the Tax payers gain (as in the CIty itself)? - no, clealry not - and ultimately will be the victims in this (through potential impact on services)
Does Sisu gain anything? - yes, they have played the long game (think they have used similar terms in the past) and won
Do CCC gain? - no, in fact they have failed in their fundemental role to protect and enhance the city
Still, at least Sisu may then move on and leave us all in our misery
Another view - I don't really llike the new kit
Sisu have been in this from the outset to make money for investors - no more, no less. They are unlikely to be particulalry fussed as to where that money comes from. If it is the case that this money comes from public funds and then goes to tax free off shore accounts, then Sisu and their invrstors won't be too fussed, as after all, money is money
CCC will have allowed themesleves to be put into a postion where this outcome, however seemingly unlikely over the years. has been allowed to transpire. They then need to be held accountable for allowing this happen - would be interesteing to know the view of the Local Govt Association and Dept for Communities and Local Govt.
Does CCFC gain? - no (if anything being used as a tool to make money in this way will send the Club to Coventry so to speak, with the local electorate)
Do the Tax payers gain (as in the CIty itself)? - no, clealry not - and ultimately will be the victims in this (through potential impact on services)
Does Sisu gain anything? - yes, they have played the long game (think they have used similar terms in the past) and won
Do CCC gain? - no, in fact they have failed in their fundemental role to protect and enhance the city
Still, at least Sisu may then move on and leave us all in our misery
Another view - I don't really llike the new kit
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Perhaps better to write a headline that reflects what the story is, Simon.
SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
We've never called them a children's charity btw.
SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
I don't think we've ever singled out any one party. We've always looked at the whole picture. That's important for context.
Certainly that's he way I've approached it since I started reporting on the fiasco two years ago.
SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
As per previous post. I can't recall a time when I haven't.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I suggest you talk to your lawyers Simon - I laughed so much at that post I've cracked 3 ribs and I'm off to A and E
Prepare for a long wait !!
hill83
Well-Known Member
Grab some tartan paint while your at it.
Nick
Administrator
Did I miss you hand delivering a news paper or driving a van about when Wasps moved here?
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Is there a written statement from the Judges? Been looking around and can't find one anywhere.
If the council win again, the only winners will be the legal profession of course and the losers will be SISU, possibly CCFC if they were to benefit.
If SISU were to win, the legal profession once again line their pockets, the hedge fund recover previous losses and the councils reserve funds may take a hit in compo pay outs.
The cynic in me tells me that whatever the outcome CCFC won't benefit, the hedge fund will still force the club to work from within it's own financial boundaries and the stadium has already been sold to Wasps which I doubt could be reversed. I suppose a SISU win could see them bugger off clutching their compo and open up the club to a serious investor but then we still have no ground to call our own.
I'd personally like to see Lucas land on her arrogant ass and lose her job over this and SISU feck off once and for all with more honest and transparent owners coming in but I'm perhaps being too optimistic and the whole shitty process could rumble on for years and City and the football will remain a sideshow for all parties except of course the long suffering fans !
One thing is for sure, the only certain winners will be the lecherous legal cretins.
If SISU were to win, the legal profession once again line their pockets, the hedge fund recover previous losses and the councils reserve funds may take a hit in compo pay outs.
The cynic in me tells me that whatever the outcome CCFC won't benefit, the hedge fund will still force the club to work from within it's own financial boundaries and the stadium has already been sold to Wasps which I doubt could be reversed. I suppose a SISU win could see them bugger off clutching their compo and open up the club to a serious investor but then we still have no ground to call our own.
I'd personally like to see Lucas land on her arrogant ass and lose her job over this and SISU feck off once and for all with more honest and transparent owners coming in but I'm perhaps being too optimistic and the whole shitty process could rumble on for years and City and the football will remain a sideshow for all parties except of course the long suffering fans !
One thing is for sure, the only certain winners will be the lecherous legal cretins.
SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
Did I miss you hand delivering a news paper or driving a van about when Wasps moved here?
The van we took to the HQs of all the major protagonists prior to Wasps' arrival?
We've been here and had this conversation before. We will always speak out for what's in the best interests of Coventry.
We spoke out against CCFC being removed from the city because there is clear evidence that the move was detrimental to the city of Coventry and its people. There was also obvious widespread opposition.
There is no such clear evidence that Wasps moving to Coventry is bad for the city or its people. There was also nothing like the level of opposition we saw to CCFC being moved. If evidence emerges that the move is bad for Coventry, we will no doubt change our position.
The Wasps deal might be bad for the football club, but the city is bigger than the Sky Blues. That's not to say the club is not an important part of its fabric.
There are undoubtedly moral questions about whether a rugby team should be moved from its homeland, and whether the move facilitated by our local authority. But, again, there's hardly been widespread anger to the move in the rugby community from what I can tell.
Nick
Administrator
Would you say the Wasps deal was good for the tax payer of Coventry then judging how they paid 5-6 million and it is now worth silly money with millions of pounds being thrown at them here there and every where with food renewals and stadium rights renewals? Surely that's worth saying hold on a minute, how has that happened?
Can the media make a difference with what the general public think?
Can the media make a difference with what the general public think?
eastwoodsdustman
Well-Known Member
Can the media make a difference with what the general public think?
Of course they can Nick. The media and an institution like the telegraph have a real duty to report stories based on facts and not based on political bias of their owners.
This is what disappoints me most about the paper's handling of the whole saga. Its clearly taken the side of the labour council which when you see that its owned by the mirror group is no real surprise really.
Of course they can Nick. The media and an institution like the telegraph have a real duty to report stories based on facts and not based on political bias of their owners.
This is what disappoints me most about the paper's handling of the whole saga. Its clearly taken the side of the labour council which when you see that its owned by the mirror group is no real surprise really.
SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
Would the Ricoh be profitable without Wasps? That's a chicken and egg situation. Also, will it be profitable at all? Only time will tell for sure.
Can the media alter the way people think? Yes. Has that ever been our intentional aim in relation to this? Certainly not in the two years since I've been here.
SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
With all due respect, that's utter unfounded nonsense.
Specs WT-R75
Well-Known Member
This is what truly irks me and boils down to why SISU were playing hardball with Higgs. ACL only has value with the likes of Wasps & CCFC onboard. Without them the company struggles to wash its face, there is no/less value on sponsoring the stadium and so on. Without a 250yr lease ACL was not even worth the 5-6m they paid...
It is clear that the council sold to Wasps as they couldn't stomach the thought of selling to Sisu... but in doing so they clearly got a bad deal for the tax-payer, and it could get worse if they end up losing the JR...
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Bias due to link with the Mirror probably is nonsense. Your blatant bias against the football club isn't and your sometimes embarrassing endorsement of Wasps isn't either.
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SimonGilbert
Telegraph Tea Boy
What possible motive would we have for bias against the football club?
Nick
Administrator
In fairness to Simon, I have seen him give councillors crap on Social Media etc in relation to other things.
Nick
Administrator
Would Wasps moving in take the value up 40 odd million in a couple of weeks though? Surely that would need looking at before touting the Wasps stuff in the paper?
Didn't the council / ACL say it was doing well when it was empty though?