So... This new stadium is taking a while... (4 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

So the article and the headline wasn't aimed to shock at the thought of sisu taking hundreds of millions of pounds worth of tax payers money? Then the thought of a stadium being built with the tax payers money.

What about the legitimate sources in the past ie when the council were saying it's down to ccfc to buy the higgs share, come and get it etc. Most people knew it was impossible and wasps weren't there to share.

Just an example of legitimate sources. You should have heard mark labovitches stuff about the council, could have written stories from months from that off the record stuff. Probably as legitimate as sisu ever winning hundreds of millions and robbing the poor tax payer.

Usually every time somebody from sisu speaks the foi department are on overtime to catch them out.

I understand a story has to be bigged up to get people reading, to make money to pay wages. That's how it works isn't it?

I guess your job is to write stories that get clicks, sell papers and get people talking about it, and you do that!

But they've only made out it could happen in your head.

Are you reading the same thing?

You just said:



That's why I quoted the bits that used that exact word.I was replying to that comment with parts that used the exact word.

So they haven't only made out if could happen in my head then? They actually have as it says it in black and white?

You've said the headline was about "hundreds of millions of pounds", I've said it only said this in your head. Thank you for proving me correct.

 

---

[Nick]

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were getting at.

Yes, the headline said millions, in other places it says hundreds of millions (I think the live feed from the court said it also) so the hundreds bit is in the text.

I will rephrase it, "It was aimed to shock at the thought of SISU taking millions from tax payers"

 

[dongonzalos]

You say scare story, I say printing information from a legitimate source.

That's your prerogative.

Mine will remain to continue to inform.

Simon every man and his dog knows someone from SISU. Would have said this too you and asked not to be directly quoted for whatever reason. ( maybe they been wisely informed not to speak to the press about legal matters without running it through the legal team first)

I would not bother responding to this matter though. Basically Grendel accused me of been a liar saying the line about SISU sources wasn't in the article, he hadn't read the article properly. He went off someone else's comment who said it never mentioned SISU.

When I pointed out word for word where it does and asked for an apology.

Rather than be man enough to accept his mistake and false allegation.
He back tracked at lightening speed.
He is now trying to change it to been about the legitacmy of source. (Never the original point)

In order to deflect the subject and avoid doing the decent thing that anyone else would do.

 

[dongonzalos]

Nick I think perception plays a large part in this.
I read the headline and thought it won't cost the tax payer anything as I don't believe SISU will win the appeal.
I think the headline was fairly accurate. Unless the compensation does not come out of tax payers money.
SISU were handed a boost.
I gues could have said CCC were handed a blow. Would that have made much difference?

The key things that came out of the day for the CET was SISU won the app

 

[Nick]

Simon every man and his dog knows someone from SISU. Would have said this too you and asked not to be directly quoted for whatever reason. ( maybe they been wisely informed not to speak to the press about legal matters without running it through the legal team first)

I would not bother responding to this matter though. Basically Grendel accused me of been a liar saying the line about SISU sources wasn't in the article, he hadn't read the article properly. He went off someone else's comment who said it never mentioned SISU.

When I pointed out word for word where it does and asked for an apology.

Rather than be man enough to accept his mistake and false allegation.
He back tracked at lightening speed.
He is now trying to change it to been about the legitacmy of source. (Never the original point)

In order to deflect the subject and avoid doing the decent thing that anyone else would do.

Do you want Simon to give him a detention or something?

 

[dongonzalos]

Nick I think perception plays a large part in this.
I read the headline and thought it won't cost the tax payer anything as I don't believe SISU will win the appeal.
I think the headline was fairly accurate. Unless the compensation does not come out of tax payers money.
SISU were handed a boost.
I gues could have said CCC were handed a blow. Would that have made much difference?

The key things that came out of the day for the CET was SISU won the appeal and they talked about substantive compensation.

I would have thought those two factors would have to be in the headline would you not?

 

[skybluetony176]

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were getting at.

Yes, the headline said millions, in other places it says hundreds of millions (I think the live feed from the court said it also) so the hundreds bit is in the text.

Yep, and when it does say in other places hundreds of millions and in the live feed from the court it also makes it clear that it's someone close to SISU and/or SISU's legal team saying it. So who exactly is doing the the scare mongering that you're wetting your pants over? The person saying it or the messenger?


The person saying it I would say, I would imagine that it was no accident that it was said in front of Simon. It was said for effect in my opinion.

 

[Nick]

Nick I think perception plays a large part in this.
I read the headline and thought it won't cost the tax payer anything as I don't believe SISU will win the appeal.
I think the headline was fairly accurate. Unless the compensation does not come out of tax payers money.
SISU were handed a boost.
I gues could have said CCC were handed a blow. Would that have made much difference?

The key things that came out of the day for the CET was SISU won the app

Yes I agree with perception.

You come on here, you read and talk about the goings on. I have a feeling SISU won't win, I also don't think at all they will get tax payers money but that is only from reading things on here day in and day out.

If you get average Bill from the end of the road who doesn't visit here, read Twitter etc then how would they see it? Granted I have only spoken to 4 or 5 people about that sort of thing as I tend to steer clear of it apart from on here, but they are all "average bill" and they tend to take things from the Telegraph as they are written. ie Wasps are making millions of pounds, SISU could have bought Higgs share, Tax Payers could lose lots of money because of the appeal etc.

 

[Nick]

Yep, and when it does say in other places hundreds of millions and in the live feed from the court it also makes it clear that it's someone close to SISU and/or SISU's legal team saying it. So who exactly is doing the the scare mongering that you're wetting your pants over? The person saying it or the messenger?


The person saying it I would say, I would imagine that it was no accident that it was said in front of Simon. It was said for effect in my opinion.

If that is the case, why wasn't half the crap Mark Labovitch used to go on about re-written?

Simon isn't stupid, surely he would know if somebody was "playing the game" with him? The same as 99% saw when Mark Labovitch was reeling stuff off.

 

[skybluetony176]

Do you want Simon to give him a detention or something?

Isn't that what you, Grendull and a few others want to do to Simon? Put him into detention or something?

 

[italiahorse]

Nick I think perception plays a large part in this. I read the headline and thought it won't cost the tax payer anything as I don't believe SISU will win the appeal. I think the headline was fairly accurate. Unless the compensation does not come out of tax payers money. SISU were handed a boost.I gues could have said CCC were handed a blow. Would that have made much difference?The key things that came out of the day for the CET was SISU won the appeal and they talked about substantive compensation. I would have thought those two factors would have to be in the headline would you not?

Sisu didn't win the appeal.They have won the right to appeal which is a big difference.As it is at the moment the JR stands.

 

[covmark]

Simon every man and his dog knows someone from SISU. Would have said this too you and asked not to be directly quoted for whatever reason. ( maybe they been wisely informed not to speak to the press about legal matters without running it through the legal team first)

I would not bother responding to this matter though. Basically Grendel accused me of been a liar saying the line about SISU sources wasn't in the article, he hadn't read the article properly. He went off someone else's comment who said it never mentioned SISU.

When I pointed out word for word where it does and asked for an apology.

Rather than be man enough to accept his mistake and false allegation.
He back tracked at lightening speed.
He is now trying to change it to been about the legitacmy of source. (Never the original point)

In order to deflect the subject and avoid doing the decent thing that anyone else would do.

Fucking hell, it's like being back at school reading this forum sometimes. Simon, Grendel's being mean to me. Get a grip ffs.

 

[stupot07]

Funniest thread I've read in years this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[skybluetony176]

If that is the case, why wasn't half the crap Mark Labovitch used to go on about re-written?

Simon isn't stupid, surely he would know if somebody was "playing the game" with him? The same as 99% saw when Mark Labovitch was reeling stuff off.

How many times were you demanding independant experts should have been consulted over ML's comments? Never i would guess. So why it's such a crime on this occassion is beyong me. They've reported what the person said and as we've now agreed played it down in the headlines. If you ask me you've got your nickers in a twist about nothing.

 

[Nick]

How many times were you demanding independant experts should have been consulted over ML's comments? Never i would guess. So why it's such a crime on this occassion is beyong me. They've reported what the person said and as we've now agreed played it down in the headlines. If you ask me you've got your nickers in a twist about nothing.

I didn't print them in a newspaper though did I? I heard them and filed most of them in the bullshit drawer from what I can remember.

I'd have loved to have seen independent experts going through the stuff he was saying though to be fair.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

I went to a meeting with some of sisu and they said that councillors would go to jail for what they had done they also believed that they were due substantial compensation.
Why do you think they are doing it for?

 

[skybluetony176]

I went to a meeting with some of sisu and they said that councillors would go to jail for what they had done they also believed that they were due substantial compensation.
Why do you think they are doing it for?

Stop scaremongering LAST. It's all your fault, you should have got an independant expert in before making those comments public. Go straight to the naughty step and tell Simon he can get of it now




Being serious for a moment, i seem to remeber you were'nt the only poster saying that this had been said during those meeting.

 

[Nick]

Stop scaremongering LAST. It's all your fault, you should have got an independant expert in before making those comments public. Go straight to the naughty step and tell Simon he can get of it now




Being serious for a moment, i seem to remeber you were'nt the only poster saying that this had been said during those meeting.

Exactly, if LAST was a newspaper reporter then surely he would check those comments out before writing articles and sending them to print?

The headline would be "Councillors could be jailed for Ricoh Saga" or something like that.

LAST isn't a newspaper reporter though is he printing articles?

 

[skybluetony176]

Exactly, if LAST was a newspaper reporter then surely he would check those comments out before writing articles and sending them to print?

The headline would be "Councillors could be jailed for Ricoh Saga" or something like that.

LAST isn't a newspaper reporter though is he printing articles?

He could print those comments as quoted by his source. If he startded speculating about what the apparent crime is and length of jail sentence associated with that that crime then yes, I would expect him to seek advice from an independent expert in law for example.

All Simon has done is print comments from a sorce and actually played down what that sorce said in his headline. It's an if's and but's article. Standard practice in the Press world, there's not a newspaper/organisation in the world that doesn't run articles in the same manor. It's not a detailed analyst of anything, probably why no independant expert is used.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Funniest thread I've read in years this

What's it about again?

(Well, apart from Sky Blue Kid's erotic fantasies about Grendel!)

 

[SimonGilbert]

Perception certainly is interesting.

I still don't really understand how a story about a council decision possibly costing the taxpayer millions of pounds (due to alleged incompetence by public officials) is a story that has been constructed to make Sisu look bad...

If Sisu won the appeal, and it did cost the taxpayer millions, the party that should come in for the most criticism is the council - as guardians of public money.

The fact it could cost taxpayers millions is quite clearly damaging to the council. And, I suspect, is the reason it was conveyed to me by a member of the Sisu legal team. It's a useful piece of information from a reliable source - hence why it was reported. If it was a 'guy in the pub', rather than a member of Sisu's legal team, I would not have placed value in it.

Whether or not Sisu should be pursuing the legal challenge is something for you to decide for yourselves. There are certainly arguments for and against.

On the point of "independent experts" and approaching them for comment - they are few and far between in this legal process. Don't forget, we're breaking new legal ground here.

I would question the motives of anyone who claims they fully understand this, and is not directly involved. Publicity seems an obvious motive. Anyone who is directly involved is not independent. Most "independent experts" are too far removed from the situation. The truth is that you lot are likely better "experts" than these 'business experts' having followed it more closely than most.

You are free to question the method and style of my reports. All I can say is that I've only ever sought to inform and always seek to remain objective. You are free to disagree. I won't hold it against you and, if you have a legitimate point, I'm happy to take it on board.

I'm the only one in the media who has sat through all of this, and I'll continue to report it as I see it. Whether you place trust in what I report, or how you interpret that information, is up to you.

 

[Nick]

Perception certainly is interesting.

council decision possibly costing the taxpayer millions of pounds (due to alleged incompetence by public officials)

Because the story doesn't read that way, if it did then I doubt this thread would still be going

The story is geared up to SISU possibly winning, being boosted and the tax payer losing out rather than the council possibly dropping a bollock and the tax payer losing out.

 

[stupot07]

Out of interest, and going off tangent (of an already off tangent discussion), when wasps say that exhibition revenue has gone up by 50% in the first 6 months that they have been here, how much of that was already pre-booked in before they came, and therefore not due to them taking over? It's all about perceptions.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[shmmeee]

Fuck me. This thread.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@ Grenduffy..... Simon's predicament is very much akin to "Doctor, Patient Confidentiality" You know, something that you know nothing about, Morality, Ethics, etc. As you've just proven by your persistent goading of Mr Gilbert.

 

[skybluetony176]

Because the story doesn't read that way, if it did then I doubt this thread would still be going

The story is geared up to SISU possibly winning, being boosted and the tax payer losing out rather than the council possibly dropping a bollock and the tax payer losing out.

It doesn't particularly read any way. It say's the tax payer will lose out if SISU win, which they will and a member of SISU's legal team has said it will be hundreds of millions, which Simon clearly stands by.

The rest is in your head Nick. I can't imagine for a single moment that if by the end of all this the net result is SISU were right anybody on here will be doing anything other than holding the council to account, myself included. I'm more than big enough to put my hand up and say I got it wrong.

If the shoe is on the other foot though and when the legal process is exhausted and what happened at the JR stands, i.e. The council are cleared of any wrong doing and SISU's behavior is called into question they'll still be some posters who won't except that. Judge Grendull for example has already declared that SISU should win but won't. I can't work out whether he means that the British justice system is corrupt or he's more educated in British law than the judge/judges preceding over the appeal therefore they'll get it wrong.

 

[Nick]

It doesn't particularly read any way. It say's the tax payer will lose out if SISU win, which they will and a member of SISU's legal team has said it will be hundreds of millions, which Simon clearly stands by.

The rest is in your head Nick. I can't imagine for a single moment that if by the end of all this the net result is SISU were right anybody on here will be doing anything other than holding the council to account, myself included. I'm more than big enough to put my hand up and say I got it wrong.

If the shoe is on the other foot though and when the legal process is exhausted and what happened at the JR stands, i.e. The council are cleared of any wrong doing and SISU's behavior is called into question they'll still be some posters who won't except that. Judge Grendull for example has already declared that SISU should win but won't. I can't work out whether he means that the British justice system is corrupt or he's more educated in British law than the judge/judges preceding over the appeal therefore they'll get it wrong.

It is how it reads when you read it as somebody away from the mess, it is all about SISU winning and taking the tax payers money rather than the council possibly squandering tax payers money with a mistake.

As I've said, I don't personally think they will win let alone get millions out of it just judging by the past.

I'd say a few on here would still be blaming SISU even if they win.

 

[skybluetony176]

It is how it reads when you read it as somebody away from the mess, it is all about SISU winning and taking the tax payers money rather than the council possibly squandering tax payers money with a mistake.

As I've said, I don't personally think they will win let alone get millions out of it just judging by the past.

I'd say a few on here would still be blaming SISU even if they win.

Well if when the legal process has been exhausted and anyone can't except the final verdict they'd be idiots in that case. Something I think we can both agree on.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Fuck me. This thread.

We need a support group for those who've read it all

 

[skybluetony176]

Simon. Out of interest if SISU lose the appeal are there any other options/avenues available to them to carry on persueing this case? Similarly, if the council lose what options/avenues do they have if they want to fight that decision?

Could be an interesting piece if you could put it together. And for Christ sake get the opinions of some independent experts if you can otherwise Nick and Grendull might literally explode.

 

[Noggin]

It is how it reads when you read it as somebody away from the mess, it is all about SISU winning and taking the tax payers money rather than the council possibly squandering tax payers money with a mistake.

As I've said, I don't personally think they will win let alone get millions out of it just judging by the past.

I'd say a few on here would still be blaming SISU even if they win.

I'm not getting involved in debates anymore so I won't be defending these views but I would still blame sisu if they win.

Sisus actions are unquestionably morally bankrupt the fact that the law can be manipulated and that people attempting to defend themselves and others can fall foul of other laws doesn't change that, it's never mattered to me whether the councils actions were legally state aid or not, I understand why they took the action they did and on a moral level support it (not talking about the wasps sale but the original loan), now obviously if sisu did win then the council are stupid and their advisers were clearly not fit for purpose and so the council would certainly share some blame but sisu would still be the guilty party, it would just be another example of how unjust the legal world can be should they win, them being in the right legally would not change the fact that their actions were disgusting and morally bankrupt.

I will always side with the morally right people over the legally right people, it's like the fact that the person who played Darth Vader has never received loyaltys because despite the movie he was in costing $33 million and bringing in something like $600 million it's never technically made a profit because of creative Hollywood accounting, all legal and above board but an utter freaking disgrace and this is the common practise, the 5th Harry Potter movie had a budget of $150million, brought in $940million and is currently listed as losing $167million.

This is a very interesting watch if you know how to use a VPN/proxy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwJt4bcnXs seems sisu should have tried taking over an American team instead, seems they would have gotten what they wanted from the council. The people who I've disagreed with in the past will probably enjoy it too because the American sports fans side with the owners over the local authoritys and it ends up getting them what they want.

 

[Ian1779]

I'm not getting involved in debates anymore so I won't be defending these views but I would still blame sisu if they win.

Sisus actions are unquestionably morally bankrupt the fact that the law can be manipulated and that people attempting to defend themselves and others can fall foul of other laws doesn't change that, it's never mattered to me whether the councils actions were legally state aid or not, I understand why they took the action they did and on a moral level support it (not talking about the wasps sale but the original loan), now obviously if sisu did win then the council are stupid and their advisers were clearly not fit for purpose and so the council would certainly share some blame but sisu would still be the guilty party, it would just be another example of how unjust the legal world can be should they win, them being in the right legally would not change the fact that their actions were disgusting and morally bankrupt.

I will always side with the morally right people over the legally right people, it's like the fact that the person who played Darth Vader has never received loyaltys because despite the movie he was in costing $33 million and bringing in something like $600 million it's never technically made a profit because of creative Hollywood accounting, all legal and above board but an utter freaking disgrace and this is the common practise, the 5th Harry Potter movie had a budget of $150million, brought in $940million and is currently listed as losing $167million.

This is a very interesting watch if you know how to use a VPN/proxy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwJt4bcnXs seems sisu should have tried taking over an American team instead, seems they would have gotten what they wanted from the council. The people who I've disagreed with in the past will probably enjoy it too because the American sports fans side with the owners over the local authoritys and it ends up getting them what they want.

So what's your opinion on the sale to Wasps? Surely that is as morally bankrupt as any of SISU's actions.

 

[Moff]

Ahh Grendull. SBT's very own Eric Cartman "You must respect my authoritor"

What's authoritor Tony?

This picture should cover the selfis of a lot of the posters on Sky Blues Talk.

 

[Captain Dart]

Perception certainly is interesting.

I still don't really understand how a story about a council decision possibly costing the taxpayer millions of pounds (due to alleged incompetence by public officials) is a story that has been constructed to make Sisu look bad...

That nonsense 'debate' is no more than a classic distraction technique to sideline the discussion initiated by the OP, because the original discussion makes SISU look bad.

Simon. Out of interest if SISU lose the appeal are there any other options/avenues available to them to carry on persueing this case? Similarly, if the council lose what options/avenues do they have if they want to fight that decision?

Could be an interesting piece if you could put it together. And for Christ sake get the opinions of some independent experts if you can otherwise Nick and Grendull might literally explode.

Any chance of getting that on Youtube?

 

[Noggin]

So what's your opinion on the sale to Wasps? Surely that is as morally bankrupt as any of SISU's actions.

like I said I'm not getting involved in debates anymore, I'll give my opinion when it's something new that I've not said before but won't criticise someone else's views nore stand up for my own. That debate has been had dozens of times already and I've given my opinion and defended it far more times than was sensible. Honestly it's embarrassing to me just how many times I've had the same debates, just how often I got pulled into silly arguments and I refuse to continue to waste my life like that and to continue to be part of the problem. I'd like to see the forum get back to friendly banter, not the bitter, deliberate causing of arguments that is so prevalent now. The fact you would ask me that question suggests we are extremely far apart in our views to the point of there being no chance in finding common ground.