I don't believe a word he speaks.
However, as my comment says, on record he has said this.
He's committed to record that SISU would not have signed up to what some have described as the gold plated deal Wasps were given.
December Stadium Deadline (1 Viewer)
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I don't believe a word he speaks.
However, as my comment says, on record he has said this.
He's committed to record that SISU would not have signed up to what some have described as the gold plated deal Wasps were given.
You might want to pop to SpecSavers fella.
Where have I said I believe what he's said?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The point everyone misses of course being that it doesn't really matter whether you believe him or not or whether you think there's an element of truth in what he's saying or not. Because of he's own self determined history of quotes it's impossible to take the bloke serious regardless of what he's saying. Not a good place for someone with his apparent responsibility and position to put themselves in.
Calista
Well-Known Member
Come on – over a long period of time Joy & Tim made clear that they only wanted ACL with all the loans and contracts swept away for them. It was never on, which is why we lost out to another party prepared to negotiate more sensibly.
To avoid any doubt, from the day SISU took over I wanted and expected them to buy into the stadium for CCFC, and am gutted that they didn’t. There was a formula for doing it, which was part of what they bought into, but they decided to try and turn the screw instead. Very bad business and a complete misjudgement of the politics.
I so much wish we were charging rent rather than paying it, but unlike some I find it hard to blame the old or the new landlords.
Nick
Administrator
That formula though, wouldn't that have had us paying quite a bit more than what Wasps paid for all of it to get 50%?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I think they would have, I think they would have also settled for a 50/50 partnership with Wasps hence the bid they made for Higgs share. Of course that was never on the cards as Wasps wanted to load debt against the stadium to pay themselves back, I dread to think about the meltdown there would have been had SISU done the same.
I do think there were concerns over the loan and ACL's ability to service it and the preference would have been to purchase without the loan but with another buyer on the scene I think they would have taken the deal Wasps were given. As much as we all accused Fisher of talking bollocks as we had the council and PWKH telling us how well ACL were doing and how insignificant the football club was to them it turned out Fisher was right. ACL wasn't being well run and was overly reliant on the football club.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Are you suggesting Reeves and West had no idea CCC were at a very advanced stage of negotiations with Wasps?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
This is from the Telegraph in October last year:
So that would date that as around October 2013.
Nick
Administrator
Surely a company knows if people are enquiring / bidding and taking it over?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
PWKH was asked on here, wouldn't confirm the exact details but did say that the figure generally thrown around for the Higgs 50%, which was £10m, was about right.
Nick
Administrator
So close to double the purchase price that Wasps paid to purchase 50%?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I don't think we'd be in the same position. From what CCC were starting we would have been looking at buying the Ricoh at either the 2 year or 4 year point. Of course by then the truth about ACL's performance would have most likely come out putting SISU in the driving seat for any ownership negotiations.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Don't think that really tells us much. There is no way his statement was going to be we're screwed and I've royally messed up.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Worse than that. Wasps paid the council and Higgs £2.77m each so got the whole lot for £5.5m.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
If you don't believe a word he says why are you using his quote as evidence that the club wouldn't have took the same deal offered to Wasps.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Don't forget the L word.... the knee-jerk reaction to it which on reflection was the turning point in this debacle.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Don't forget that Daniel Gidney previously stated that the same 50% was worth £24m.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
So why are people using his quotes as evidence then if he's such a big joke.
"Very generally" and "albeit informally". Happens all the time... A what if? Situation. Doesn't mean that there were continuing talks from then on.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
That was actually only for match day revenue if the club are to believed, no stake in ACL just match day revenues. Such a generous offer.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Wasn't that £24m just to buy the rights to matchday revenue streams?
Not "we're screwed", but "our plan to screw CCC and Higgs backfired".
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
That's so embarrassing when you look back at that article, they were almost certainly in negotiations with wasps at the time
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors
Exactly, I wonder why the Cov Telegraph haven't picked the honourable councillor up on this!!
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Based on what? What have they ever said and done to convince you of them doing either?
Where have I used his quote as evidence?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
OK, if you want to change the semantics fine. Point still stands, would you really expect someone like Fisher to make a statement putting the blame on himself?
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
It doesn't really matter what Tim said in the meantime, fact is that the Wasps deal was almost done. Perhaps Tim knew this, and was putting a positive message (whether true or not) out rather than being left flatfooted again when news of the Wasps deal became public.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You'd have to ask them. But the real question is why has he put himself in a position where the people who need to take you serious (i.e. CCFC customers) can't. I can't believe he's got to this point by accident.
But we'd currently still be under the 2+2?
Either way, hindsight is a wonderful thing!
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I am 100% certain there has never been any plan to build a new stadium and SISU's endgame was to get ownership of the Ricoh. Maybe to flip as a package with the club, maybe to load with debt as Wasps have done. I'm also 100% certain they wanted the stadium as cheaply as possible.
I can easily see a scenario where they believed themselves to be the owner horse in the race and it was just a matter of waiting until CCC and Higgs backed down. The majority of people were not expecting the stadium to be handed over to a rugby club from London given all the statements made about our season in Northampton.
So on that basis I conclude that if they were aware of the offer from Wasps and that they would most likely be about to lose any chance of stadium ownership they would have matched Wasps offer to both the council and Higgs.
As it turned out they didn't get the opportunity to bid on the councils share but did match Wasps offer for Higgs share.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It's cost us a lot more in the long run.
Why did he have to give a statement? How can be sure this statement wasn't the truth?
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Well you weren't posting it to agree with Godiva's point of view that the club would have took the offer Wasps had was you? You were posting it to dispute his opinion that the club would have taken the same deal.
I would have thought saying that he would have paid lots more would have been in his interest in an attempt to show the council in a bad light and have cleared him. So, in this case I don't see his motive in saying he wouldn't have accepted it. He was still on the new stadium kick when he said it, which sort of confirmed what he said.
Nick
Administrator
Sorry, that's what I meant. should have put that wasps paid for 100% for us to get 50%