December Stadium Deadline (3 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

He's also the man working on the Tim Pot stadium.
Worrying isn't it ?

Its worrying in so far as even the independent experts rolled out by CWR and CT have said to compete at a higher level that we are currently at we need our own ground and we're relying on him to make it happen.

 

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[martcov]

Doesn't mean there wasn't either

http://www.therugbyblog.com/was-richardsons-wasps-takeover-just-a-step-on-the-road-to-the-ricoh

No, so we cannot read much into it.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

He's also the man working on the Tim Pot stadium.
Worrying isn't it ?

Yep, we really need an owner with a genuine ambition to build a new stadium but that looks a million miles away at the moment.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

They've painted the media area black, looks absolutely ridiculous. The bowl of the stadium is Sky Blue apart from one section!

Suppose some will say not a big deal but its just another small step towards the whole ground being yellow and black.

Around block 20 one of the walls was black it will look really dark when finished.

 

[Moff]

Defensive? Asking questions of clarification?

If you think it's funny your really need to get out more.

Exposed? You're really like a modern day Roger Cook!!

A lot of people wont have a clue who Roger Cook is.

 

[armybike]

A lot of people wont have a clue who Roger Cook is.

I'm sure Detective CCFC will expose the truth

 

[italiahorse]

Its worrying in so far as even the independent experts rolled out by CWR and CT have said to compete at a higher level that we are currently at we need our own ground and we're relying on him to make it happen.

That reminds me of another factor in the equation.
What rent will Sisu charge us and what percentage of the profits will we get?
Or does everybody just want a new stadium?

 

[Nick]

Are they not currently having a cut of the profits on the day?
They get this without even investing in the infrastructure that provides it.
They should be working on the next deal. Hopefully they are.

In a new stadium you would need to finance and provide the facilities.

Is it better ? I don't know, but this is the sort of information we need to get from Sisu.

Didn't ccfc put money into the bid too? The rent we have paid is more than wasps paid to buy the lot. I'd say that's investing

 

[skybluetony176]

So anyway. About this December deadline. Do we think SISU will get a proposal into RBC in time to be considered?

Perhaps their actually will be a big announcement in the new year. This new year.

To be fair to Mr Fisher he didn't say which new year.

 

[italiahorse]

Didn't ccfc put money into the bid too? The rent we have paid is more than wasps paid to buy the lot. I'd say that's investing

No it's rent and included a lot of add ons.
Interested to know how much effectively we were paying for the Megastore, the offices in Holbrooks etc etc that were all in one place at the Ricoh and were included in the rent. There are loads more add ons which we now have to purchase up front.
All okay in the Championship but not affordable where we are now. I think TF has said that in a way.

 

[Nick]

So ccfc spent no money in the development?

 

[stupot07]

No it's rent and included a lot of add ons.
Interested to know how much effectively we were paying for the Megastore, the offices in Holbrooks etc etc that were all in one place at the Ricoh and were included in the rent. There are loads more add ons which we now have to purchase up front.
All okay in the Championship but not affordable where we are now. I think TF has said that in a way.

No, he said it was ok now, but the model doesn't work in the championship, where we will continue to have one of the lowest revenues in the league.

I doubt we will be paying anywhere near £1.3m per annum for the megastore, offices and matchday rent.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[Ian1779]

ACL went very close to going bust.

But the timing was wrong and if the Wasps deal had not happened ACL would have gone bust.
IMO

No no no... I'm not having that. AL was quite insistent all along that ACL was going from strength to strength, in fact they didn't even need the football club.

Propaganda at its finest... And you swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

 

[Grendel]

No no no... I'm not having that. AL was quite insistent all along that ACL was going from strength to strength, in fact they didn't even need the football club.

Propaganda at its finest... And you swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

He also supported the rent strike and wanted ACL to go bust
He's an idiot.

 

[Calista]

They would have done (or should have done) but frankly they didn't care as stadium ownership wasn't part of the Ranson plan that was sold to SISU as a great investment. His idea was small investment in the team, in relative terms, get promotion and cash in. In fact the reason we ended up with SISU was that the other interested parties at the time all identified that stadium ownership was essential and that the council wouldn't sell to the club causing them to drop interest.

We then moved on to SISU phase 2 with that idiot Orange Ken. I suppose you can see how we ended up with him. Ranson went, apparently when he finally left it wasn't the first time he'd tried to get out, and Ken could well have been the only other football person (in loose terms) that SISU knew thanks to their dealings with him at Southampton. Suspect the plan for him was get the club to breakeven while staying in the Championship so SISU could sell us as a decent prospect and recoup some of their money. Failed miserably of course and that's when SISU got directly involved.

It was only when Fisher came in that stadium ownership seemed to be seriously looked at. He identified early on that the rent was way too high and unsustainable and that ACL was underperforming and reliant on the football club. Of course he was ridiculed for saying so but turned out he was right.

So basically by the time the stadium and rent was properly looked at we were many years down the line with SISU, playing in L1 and a mess. Didn't Joy pretty much say as much in her Telegraph interview?

Most of that rings true for me. It’s a sorry tale of incompetence whichever way you look at it.

Personally, I never did ridicule Fisher’s claims that ACL needed CCFC. I always felt the Council were bending the truth as a defence against the distressing that was going on. It’s only natural that a sports stadium needs the income from a sports club – and TWO clubs makes it more viable still, which is why I still hope (maybe naively) that Wasps and CCFC can work well in tandem. What city would want two struggling stadiums when it could have one thriving one?

 

[chiefdave]

No it's rent and included a lot of add ons.
Interested to know how much effectively we were paying for the Megastore, the offices in Holbrooks etc etc that were all in one place at the Ricoh and were included in the rent.

Well the rent on the ground is £100K, I can't find a rent for the club shop but unit 2 is £30K, no idea how that compares in size. Is anyone still at Citybase or have they moved to the Butts and / or Ryton. Can't imagine the Butts is costing a lot so the rent is probably around £1m cheaper. Can't see car parking, executive boxes etc coming to anywhere close to that.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

So anyway. About this December deadline. Do we think SISU will get a proposal into RBC in time to be considered?

Perhaps their actually will be a big announcement in the new year. This new year.

To be fair to Mr Fisher he didn't say which new year.

no I can't see it being in on time they hardly have a history of getting things in on time, so get ready for a battle in court with RBC

 

[Nick]

Most of that rings true for me. It’s a sorry tale of incompetence whichever way you look at it.

Personally, I never did ridicule Fisher’s claims that ACL needed CCFC. I always felt the Council were bending the truth as a defence against the distressing that was going on. It’s only natural that a sports stadium needs the income from a sports club – and TWO clubs makes it more viable still, which is why I still hope (maybe naively) that Wasps and CCFC can work well in tandem. What city would want two struggling stadiums when it could have one thriving one?

What city would want a thriving stadium making a different city's rugby team all the money?

 

[italiahorse]

So ccfc spent no money in the development?

Wasn't that reflected in getting half of ACL before they sold it to Higgs for £6.5 M ? (pre Sisu)
Half the rent would then have effectively been CCFC's via ACL.
It's a mess when you really look back what we had.

 

[armybike]

So anyway. About this December deadline. Do we think SISU will get a proposal into RBC in time to be considered?

I wonder how set in stone the December deadline is? If it's already slipped by three months surely they're a chance it could move again?

I think the JR in February will be a pivotal point and so if the submission date were to move to March/April next year, then SISU's maybe better placed in deciding how to progress.

However, if the submission date remains in December, then I don't think they'll make this deadline.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Didn't wasps and QPR have the same owner when they shared a stadium?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Didn't wasps and QPR have the same owner when they shared a stadium?

Yes, Chris Wright was his name. He said Wasps should have never left Loftus Road and he would never have take then club to Coventry.

Wycombe and Wasps also had the same owner for a while also.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Yes, Chris Wright was his name. He said Wasps should have never left Loftus Road and he would never have take then club to Coventry.

Wycombe and Wasps also had the same owner for a while also.

Had a wasps history lesson today on the net. The present owners have only been around two years I believe?

 

[Philosoraptor]

From what I can understand that many wasp fans were in uproar when they found out they were leaving London. So they should be as well.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Had a wasps history lesson today on the net. The present owners have only been around two years I believe?

Yes its been speculated that he only bought Wasps to get the Ricoh as he was inquiring about the availability of the Ricoh before he ever registered interest in Wasps.

 

[Calista]

So anyway. About this December deadline. Do we think SISU will get a proposal into RBC in time to be considered?

Perhaps their actually will be a big announcement in the new year. This new year.

To be fair to Mr Fisher he didn't say which new year.

Blimey, this relates to the original post! I’ll bet ccfc92 has had some good laughs in the last week, having merely said “Thoughts?”.

If the intention to build a stadium is real, anything resembling an actual commitment is quite transparently being delayed ad nauseam, as long as there remains a chance of getting a result regarding the Ricoh in the courts. The occasional statements that plans will be revealed “soon” are an insult to people’s intelligence.

I believe the December deadline relates to allocations for land use in Rugby’s Local Plan, which is less specific than an actual planning application. So SISU could go that far without really committing to much – although the location(s) would then be in the public domain. I guess it will have to be on the fringes of Coventry, and the least controversial area would be in the vicinity of the airport. But it’s not a prospect that gets me excited, and it could take a mighty long time because the Local Plan itself won’t be adopted until around next summer and is only the first step.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Makes you think where they got all the money for the bonds they issued. The fans?

 

[Philosoraptor]

One thing I have learnt from this debarcle in general is that every side in this can't afford to lose. And every side does not want to appear weak.

 

[Philosoraptor]

I will state a case now and I believe the whole business case for wasps balances on how their public perception is viewed in Coventry and the surrounding areas. If that goes negative then its bye bye wasps.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Didnt London wasps split themselves into two when rugby union became professional, where the first team split off from the rest of the club. I understand the original club still plays in London and owns 5% of this new venture according to the internet.

I could of course be very wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasps_FC

 

[skybluetony176]

Blimey, this relates to the original post! I’ll bet ccfc92 has had some good laughs in the last week, having merely said “Thoughts?”.

If the intention to build a stadium is real, anything resembling an actual commitment is quite transparently being delayed ad nauseam, as long as there remains a chance of getting a result regarding the Ricoh in the courts. The occasional statements that plans will be revealed “soon” are an insult to people’s intelligence.

I believe the December deadline relates to allocations for land use in Rugby’s Local Plan, which is less specific than an actual planning application. So SISU could go that far without really committing to much – although the location(s) would then be in the public domain. I guess it will have to be on the fringes of Coventry, and the least controversial area would be in the vicinity of the airport. But it’s not a prospect that gets me excited, and it could take a mighty long time because the Local Plan itself won’t be adopted until around next summer and is only the first step.

Yeah. I was thinking the same myself. It's going to cost SISU very little to get the development included in the local plan so why couldn't they meet the September deadline? I come up with two possibilities. The first as you said because the location(s) would be in the public domain but I also wondered if it was to be included or considered for inclusion would SISU need some sort of claim on the proposed land? A formal agreement between the current landowner and themselves as a potential owner?

 

[shmmeee]

What city would want a thriving stadium making a different city's rugby team all the money?

What city would want a thriving stadium making a different city's hedge fund all the money?

It's about fan spending and international recognition. You'd be amazed the impact a gift of a Premiership football team's jersey can be at a trade delegation. I imagine rugby has a similar, though lesser, effect.

From a purely mercenary point of view from the council, it's about how many fans you get through the door and how well known you are around the world. Not who owns the club.

 

[Calista]

Yeah. I was thinking the same myself. It's going to cost SISU very little to get the development included in the local plan so why couldn't they meet the September deadline? I come up with two possibilities. The first as you said because the location(s) would be in the public domain but I also wondered if it was to be included or considered for inclusion would SISU need some sort of claim on the proposed land? A formal agreement between the current landowner and themselves as a potential owner?

The Planning Portal says "You don't actually need to own land to apply for planning permission for it. This means you can apply for permission before deciding whether or not to buy a piece of land". So I don't think ownership should influence the allocation of land uses in the Local Plan, which is an earlier and less specific stage than a planning application.

 

[Moff]

I believe the December deadline relates to allocations for land use in Rugby’s Local Plan, which is less specific than an actual planning application. So SISU could go that far without really committing to much – although the location(s) would then be in the public domain. I guess it will have to be on the fringes of Coventry, and the least controversial area would be in the vicinity of the airport. But it’s not a prospect that gets me excited, and it could take a mighty long time because the Local Plan itself won’t be adopted until around next summer and is only the first step.

If there is currently a proposed site, I suspect it wont be around the airport.

First and foremost there are strict guidlines not only on what you can build but also about how it can be built, in relation to the proximity to the airport and its flight path. A lot of the area around the aiport was earmarked for development in the Gateway project, which Sir Peter Rigby has not yet given up on, whilst to the other side of the airport towards Ryton, there is a river and flood plain.

I would imagine the club would be looking towards the M69/M6/A46 Ansty area, or Binley Woods as opposed to the airport.

 

[chiefdave]

What city would want a thriving stadium making a different city's rugby team all the money?

That's easy, Coventry.