France terrorist attack beheading (28 Viewers)

[SIR ERNIE]

no, but to think that if you turn thousands of refugees away you will have less terrorism is very naive. QUOTE]


So your view is that if you allow 1.5 million Muslim migrants into the EU without fully checking their identities you will not have an increased risk of terror attacks.

Now that's naive.

 

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[martcov]

no, but to think that if you turn thousands of refugees away you will have less terrorism is very naive. QUOTE]


So your view is that if you allow 1.5 million Muslim migrants into the EU without fully checking their identities you will not have an increased risk of terror attacks.

Now that's naive.

The French have a couple of thousand that they count as dangerous already there. Are there 1,5 million Muslims on the way in? We are getting Serbs, Christians from the M.E. and Africa, not just Muslims. Most of the refugees are not terrorists and are fleeing terrorism. Yes, we should be controlling as much as we can, but half the population of Syria has been displaced and there is plenty going on in North Africa and Afghanistan with more to come. If we turn them all away, then you have more pissed off Muslims and we are breaking our own rules.

How do you fully check their identities? There are so many forged passports, ids and people travelling under false names. Do you write to Aleppo and ask for confirmation of identity?

Hopefully the the winter will reduce the flow of refugees. The Taliban will make their usual winter break and the Syrians will see the reports of horrible conditions in Europe. The only real answer is that the war is stopped as soon as possible.

No-one, even Merkel is advocating uncontrolled immigration. It became that way because of the sheer numbers. Syrians can stay for 3 years as refugees under the Geneva convention before the situation is reviewed. Asylum cases are treated on an individual basis. The trend is going towards treating refugees on an individual basis - as asylum seekers. I don't know if that has started yet for Syrians. People from the Balkans are being sent home and the flow from there has halved.

A refugee is a refugee, there is no upper limit ( in law ) - you cannot say we will give shelter to a certain number to save them from war, and then say to the next one, sorry our quota is full, go back and maybe die.

 

[Sick Boy]

Anyone who uses the term ' mad Merkel' obviously takes their political beliefs straight out of the Sun and the Express.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Sick prank?

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/local-news/bomb-scare-closes-popular-local-10180471

Passersby found a green package outside the former Specsavers store.
It was reported that the package contained religious phrases and the word ‘Zap’
A spokesperson from Nuneaton Borough Council said: “There was a suspicious package found outside the old Specsavers.
“It was green with some silver sticking out of the top with Islamic writing.
“The bombsquad were called.”
A police statement said: "Police can confirm we were called to the Ropewalk Shopping Centre in Nuneaton at 9.24am this morning, following concerns over a possible suspicious package.
"As a matter of precaution a cordon was in place for around 20 minutes, however nothing suspicious was uncovered, and there was found to be no risk to the public.
"The shopping centre has now reopened."

 

[CCFC Germany]

no, but to think that if you turn thousands of refugees away you will have less terrorism is very naive. QUOTE]


So your view is that if you allow 1.5 million Muslim migrants into the EU without fully checking their identities you will not have an increased risk of terror attacks.

Now that's naive.

There also are over one billion muslims on this planet not doing any harm.
So why treat those 1,5 million (I am not even sure it will be that much) as potential terrorist ?

We should focus on those insane "hate preachers" in the local communities, which turn young men into terrorists.

 

[martcov]

There also are over one billion muslims on this planet not doing any harm.
So why treat those 1,5 million (I am not even sure it will be that much) as potential terrorist ?

We should focus on those insane "hate preachers" in the local communities, which turn young men into terrorists.

also focus on the right wing - hate muslims, all Muslims are potential terrorists, refugees could be terrorists. There are enough people out there burning refugee centres and advocating leaving refugees at borders who are contributing to the increase in tension.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Yes, the borders have been overrun. This is the biggest migration in Europe since WWII and you cannot "credit" Merkel with that.

Wrong again.

Monthly migration figures have increased 370% since Merkel made her reckless 'open doors' invitation.


Even border control officials are now admitting that that haven't got a clue who they've really let in.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

[]



There also are over one billion muslims on this planet not doing any harm.
So why treat those 1,5 million (I am not even sure it will be that much) as potential terrorist ?

Hmmmm let me think.

Ah, I know.

Because ISL have vowed to send thousands of Jihadi fighters posing as refugees into Europe.

 

[Captain Dart]

How do you fully check their identities? There are so many forged passports, ids and people travelling under false names. Do you write to Aleppo and ask for confirmation of identity?

Fingerprints & DNA, so at least they can be connected to a point of entry, paperwork is easily forged.

 

[Nick]

I do wonder sometimes about people and how naive they are.

Would they let random strangers wander into their house and sleep in the room next to their kids because it was the right thing to do because they were homeless? Not every stranger is going to burgle you or worse, but would you risk it?

 

[CCFC Germany]

I do wonder sometimes about people and how naive they are.

Would they let random strangers wander into their house and sleep in the room next to their kids because it was the right thing to do because they were homeless? Not every stranger is going to burgle you or worse, but would you risk it?

That's not even close to comparable.

 

[Nick]

That's not even close to comparable.

Neither is the argument that there are terrorists living here so we may as well let some more in anyway.

 

[mechaishida]

And now we have Cameron the humanitarian saying the UK has had several terrorist plots foiled in the last 6 months.

Of course it has, David, how bloody transparent is this man?

 

[Covstu]

And now we have Cameron the humanitarian saying the UK has had several terrorist plots foiled in the last 6 months.

Of course it has, David, how bloody transparent is this man?

I suppose its down to preference, would you want to know every foiled plot when it happens? Personally think that would cause mass paranoia and unnecessary panic. I would just prefer to know that this is beign dealt with appropriately.

 

[mechaishida]

I suppose its down to preference, would you want to know every foiled plot when it happens? Personally think that would cause mass paranoia and unnecessary panic. I would just prefer to know that this is beign dealt with appropriately.

Uh-huh, or he's just spinning the shite out of a terrible tragedy to further the imaginary 'war on Islam'. It amuses me that so many of the downtrodden masses still gladly swallow the bullshit they're fed via the mass media machine.

Will he end up with more blood on his hands than 'Butcher' Blair? Maybe not, but still.

 

[Nick]

Uh-huh, or he's just spinning the shite out of a terrible tragedy to further the imaginary 'war on Islam'. It amuses me that so many of the downtrodden masses still gladly swallow the bullshit they're fed via the mass media machine.

Will he end up with more blood on his hands than 'Butcher' Blair? Maybe not, but still.

So none have been foiled?

 

[Monners]

Quite a few have been "foiled" - according to my source in the Met!

 

[mechaishida]

So none have been foiled?

Have 'several' been foiled because the media tell you so, Nick?

This is the point I'm trying to make. It just seems very convenient timing, to announce this just after a tragedy like Paris, to stir up even more animosity. ISIS is the tool, the West is the hand that guides - this is my opinion, and I agree that many will not share this opinion.

 

[Nick]

Have 'several' been foiled because the media tell you so, Nick?

This is the point I'm trying to make. It just seems very convenient timing, to announce this just after a tragedy like Paris, to stir up even more animosity. ISIS is the tool, the West is the hand that guides - this is my opinion, and I agree that many will not share this opinion.

I'd say they have probably said it to make people feel a bit safer, to say they are being foiled is better than saying there is no risk.

I would say things are being done in the background all of the time.

 

[mechaishida]

I'd say they have probably said it to make people feel a bit safer, to say they are being foiled is better than saying there is no risk.

I would say things are being done in the background all of the time.

Yep, I agree with that, however a general public baying for Islamic blood is a powerful utility. It almost justifies the call to bomb the crap out of Syria again, which they're proposing again.

There's more going on behind the veil than anyone will ever know, but one thing's for sure, I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the next Bilderberg conference.

 

[martcov]

Wrong again.

Monthly migration figures have increased 370% since Merkel made her reckless 'open doors' invitation.


Even border control officials are now admitting that that haven't got a clue who they've really let in.

Any proof that it as all because of Merkel? Problem was coming. Russia is now bombing " moderate " rebels. Erdogan is making the refugees less welcome. No way is she the only cause of mass migration. Now France has intensified bombing, Britain and NATO will follow. Syria is not the place to live.

Border controllers cannot cope - exactly because of the volume.

Syria is burning. The M.E. is falling into anarchy. Germany is bombing no-one. Even without Merkel, Germany would be a safe refuge for Syrians. Merkel is one of the few who will be respected in history.

look at PEGIDA in Dresden. People following a convicted burglar and drug dealer. The AfD, a German version of UKIP. The nazis pumping out bullshit. Merkel stands above these tossers.

 

[martcov]

Fingerprints & DNA, so at least they can be connected to a point of entry, paperwork is easily forged.

Yes, but how does that help prevent terrorism? It helps find out that someone with a false passport entered the EU. But it is past tense as we have seen.

 

[Captain Dart]

Yes, but how does that help prevent terrorism? It helps find out that someone with a false passport entered the EU. But it is past tense as we have seen.

It allows investigators to trace movements & figure out tactics being used by terrorists. Which is very important if you want to find a way of disrupting their operations.

 

[Nick]

Yes, but how does that help prevent terrorism? It helps find out that someone with a false passport entered the EU. But it is past tense as we have seen.

Also alerts them if they are known too? Not sure why people are so against it.

 

[martcov]

Have 'several' been foiled because the media tell you so, Nick?

This is the point I'm trying to make. It just seems very convenient timing, to announce this just after a tragedy like Paris, to stir up even more animosity. ISIS is the tool, the West is the hand that guides - this is my opinion, and I agree that many will not share this opinion.

I would say that ISIS are doing quite well in stirring up animosity on their own. They don't need Cameron. If Putin and Obama make joint bombing raids against ISIS, as Hollande has proposed, then ISIS will go down in history for bringing two super powers together. The last one who did that was Hitler.

 

[martcov]

Also alerts them if they are known too? Not sure why people are so against it.

Alerts who? If they have a false passports- as in Paris - where does the alert come from? Who is against controls? I am just pointing out that it is very difficult to control such numbers. The winter may provide a breathing space as it gets harder to travel. Also the Germans are getting more organised and new laws are in place.

 

[martcov]

It allows investigators to trace movements & figure out tactics being used by terrorists. Which is very important if you want to find a way of disrupting their operations.

Yes, I can see that, but it is in the first instance in the past tense. As more things happen, it becomes more useful. I don't say we should do no checks, but if people have false identities, they won't throw up an alert.

 

[Nick]

Yes, I can see that, but it is in the first instance in the past tense. As more things happen, it becomes more useful. I don't say we should do no checks, but if people have false identities, they won't throw up an alert.

It will unless they alter their finger print and dna though

 

[martcov]

It will unless they alter their finger print and dna though

Who has the finger print and Dna bank? Are the controls linked to a data base? If so, great. The checks on the Paris suspect by Greece did not throw up an alert.

 

[Nick]

Who has the finger print and Dna bank? Are the controls linked to a data base? If so, great. The checks on the Paris suspect by Greece did not throw up an alert.

Oh it will never work then, let everybody in.

You would think it does go into a database wouldn't you?

Why wouldn't you want to be safer than sorry?

People won't have issue with their dna etc being on record so why would anybody else.

 

[martcov]

Oh it will never work then, let everybody in.

You would think it does go into a database wouldn't you?

Why wouldn't you want to be safer than sorry?

If it is that easy, then great. If it is possible, then I hope it is being done. All for it. Just that up until now it doesn't seem to be happening. Maybe because of the volume, or possibly because of a lack of technology or centralised dna and fingerprint information. Maybe some terrorists are not known as such and have clean records. Have any been detected amongst the refugees when entering and then handed over to the authorities? Would be nice to know how effective existing controls are.

 

[Nick]

If it is that easy, then great. If it is possible, then I hope it is being done. All for it. Just that up until now it doesn't seem to be happening. Maybe because of the volume, or possibly because of a lack of technology or centralised dna and fingerprint information. Maybe some terrorists are not known as such and have clean records. Have any been detected amongst the refugees when entering and then handed over to the authorities? Would be nice to know how effective existing controls are.

You tell me, you are the one trying to make out tighter border controls is pointless?

 

[martcov]

You tell me, you are the one trying to make out tighter border controls is pointless?

I am not. I am saying the existing controls are either not functioning because of the sheer volume of refugees, or that they are not technologically sufficient seeing as a Paris terrorist was registered in Greece and no alert was thrown up.

 

[Nick]

I am not. I am saying the existing controls are either not functioning because of the sheer volume of refugees, or that they are not technologically sufficient seeing as a Paris terrorist was registered in Greece and no alert was thrown up.

They probably aren't because we have people shouting just let them in else they will die.

If anybody in the world is arrested for serious crimes (probably all crime) then their dna and prints should be taken as standard and on a database.

He may not have had a history, but it does show the checks aren't tight enough if people are using fake papers to get through. They obviously see it as easy.

 

[rob9872]

Sport and politics don't mix. The reason why tonight's game should be played is to show that sport encompasses all and is above things like violence and hatred. Not at all happy with this faux sympathy and singing the French national anthem. Respect the anthem, a minutes silence yes, but no more. I swear some of these journalists would like to let them win too, although with England they probably don't need to worry about that.