The Lurker
Well-Known Member
Well that's 2 games called off now. Ridiculous. No smoke without fire
France terrorist attack beheading (24 Viewers)
- Thread starter jon92
- Start date
Well that's 2 games called off now. Ridiculous. No smoke without fire
Nick
Administrator
I am not sure if I was there I could sing another national anthem and pretend to be French. It seems a bit fake, the same as when people rushed out to buy the magazine when the other attack happened because it was "the thing" to do and weren't bothered about it before or since.
Yes, show respect but no need to go too far about it.
CCFC Germany
Active Member
People wanting to sacrifice living in freedom for maybe living in freedom. Strange world.
I bought Charlie Hebdo because it meant something to me. Someone tried to take something away from me. No, I had never read it before, but I had the right to read it - and that is what they tried to take from me. They are now trying to take away the right to go to a football game if I want to, by trying to get into Stade de France with a bomb. For me it would not be fake to join in with French National Anthem. Someone is trying to take something from all of us and replace it with submission to a non-existent being in the sky.
The Lurker
Well-Known Member
So Germany's game was cancelled due to explosives found. The enemy are everywhere and sports getting targeted
yes... You are not happy about the Geneva convention. I see that.
May I remind you and others on here, that the UK was to have an ID Card, but they caused so much noise, that the first thing Cameron did was to cancel the scheme - which I was for btw. Now you are saying we would have no issue giving our dna ( previous post ). I don't believe that based on out ID history.
We are probably the next target, but don't even have or want ID cards. The very least you should be doing is speaking up for ID Cards, with them we could at least control/ check when necessary, the identity of people already in our society.
We are still waiting for the press conference- up until now no-one is admitting finding explosives. Merkel speaking with ministers.
Just a footnote about controls. The guy from Montenegro with a car full of weapons on his way to Paris was a grape picker heavily in debt and no known connections to islamists. Drinker ( beer ) and gambler. Absolutely unknown and wouldn't normally set off an alert. Probably offered the chance to clear his debts by driving to Paris in a rented car due to be given back a week later. Poor guy. An offer he should have refused.
Never has anything messed with my emotion as much as this and I usually am as tough as old boots. Worried for the future of my children and so confused with all the issues and debates that really don't know where I stand anymore. I love people of all colours and nationality, utterly confusing and such a mess
Covstu
Well-Known Member
Know what you mean macca, it's that worry that you are not safe anywhere with people so focused/dedicated/sick/hellbent on causing anarchy and wouldn't think twice about killing all those you love. These atrosoties are happening over the world but Paris has brought it onto our doorstep and if the events in Germany were true the we may see more of the same. Worrying times
There are plenty of hardline Islamic Countries they could emigrate, give their allegiance to.
They don't appear to want that.
Say everyone leaves them be to develop their own state,then what,all in the garden hunky dory?
I don't think so.
They've been given a free hand to occupy the vacuum left by Western tinkering, then turning it's back when Intervention became critical.
Only one way to solve It now as with all evil
regimes that slaughter, yes Muslims and Infidel westerners.
Smash It as hard as you can with everything you've got.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
Poor Guy?
What?
He's driven 750 miles in a car full of machine guns and grenades with a Paris address in his Sat Nav and you feel sorry for him.
What on earth do you imagine he thought the weapons would be used for?
Ah, of course. He didn't know what was in the car did he.
Why do you continually seek to apologise for these scumbags?
Life imprisonment for the poor chap.
Next.
CCFC Germany
Active Member
Parlez-vous sarcasm ?
Nick
Administrator
Where was there sarcasm?
He is a loser. Yes you are right he shouldn't have done it. He is a poor guy for being a loser not for helping them. Yes he should have a long sentence. He should also cooperate fully with the police who, btw, haven't even visited his family or checked his phone book which he left on the table. So much to controls. The Germans sent a control message to Montenegro via Interpol, but his family, who said they would cooperate if asked to, say that they are surprised that the police haven't visited them.
Btw, I am not apologising for scumbags. I am pointing out that all this shouting and panicking, is causing us to miss certain points. People think you close borders and increase controls and the problem goes away. I am saying that the problem is already here. Maybe it will get worse if ISIS smuggle people in. Maybe. At the moment any new recruits have to go to existing cells because they arrive without arms. This "poor guy" is one of many many losers who will be used as "mules" to move weapons around. How do you flag these people at controls? Also, according to a German documentary, the police in Montenegro do not seem too bothered. The journalists interviewed the guy's family and gathered his personal belongings, went to the car hire firm etc and at the end got the family to write a letter to him asking him to cooperate with the police. According to the journalists he has now said he will talk. He was not a refugee, neither was he ( as far as we know ) a radical member of ISIS. This is not going to be as easy as some people think.
CCFC Germany
Active Member
I am really afraid, that we again (!) are missing the point to stop IS, just focusing on blind revenge actions.
Almost every middle east expert or so-called middle east expert claims the importance of putting pressure on Saudi Arabia and other countries to stop them from delivering weapons and ammo to the terrorist. Plus they thrive on and live of the torn Iraq and the conflict between Shiites and Sunnis, which should be solved somehow ASAP.
Nothing is being done on these problems. Just bombing alone will not lead anywhere, probably will just make more people towards the IS
Plus another interesting theory I read yesterdays was, that by attacks like Paris the IS wants European people turn on the muslims in general, making them supporting ISIS / turning them towards ISIS.
If this is true, that might work.
Almost every middle east expert or so-called middle east expert claims the importance of putting pressure on Saudi Arabia and other countries to stop them from delivering weapons and ammo to the terrorist. Plus they thrive on and live of the torn Iraq and the conflict between Shiites and Sunnis, which should be solved somehow ASAP.
Nothing is being done on these problems. Just bombing alone will not lead anywhere, probably will just make more people towards the IS
Plus another interesting theory I read yesterdays was, that by attacks like Paris the IS wants European people turn on the muslims in general, making them supporting ISIS / turning them towards ISIS.
If this is true, that might work.
Exactly. They ( ISIS and other radicals ) like playing the victim role. It wins them sympathy and followers.
I recall watching some Doctor /Professor giving his views on BBC rolling news on the New Century ahead as we entered the Millennium.
He forecast the first 50 yrs would be dominated by (small I think) regional wars.
He hasn't disappointed yet, unfortunately.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
And where are Saudi Arabia getting these weapons that they are selling to ISIS? From the UK weapons industry. Cameron even goes and visits the likes of King Abdullah on trade missions to persuade them to spend more!
We also happily sell to the likes of UAE, Egypt, Oman and Bahrain. Not to mention entertaining the likes of India's Modi, China's Jinping and Egypt's Sisi.
Our foreign policy is all over the place. We can't even seem to decide whose side we're on these days. We put someone into power then when it doesn't work out support whoever is trying to overthrow them. Of course ISIS are evil but there is an element of creating our own problem here with constant interference. We supported the Arab Spring uprisings but can't deal with the outcome in Syria.
If you look back at what actually happened its not hard to see how it ended up a total mess. Assad's regime came under attack from rebels as part of the Arab Spring supported by the West. Extremists then joined the rebels, some of which Assad released from prison himself. Iran supports Assad, sending in Hezbollah. The Gulf States supports rebels sending arms via Turkey & Jordan.
Basically ended up with Sunni's supporting rebels and Shia's supporting Assad. Then the CIA decides to train and equip the rebels as they want Assad removed.
With the country in a mess it was the opening for ISIS. They split from Al Qaeda and enter the civil war but they don't fight Assad or the Syrian rebels they fight the Kurds and start working towards Iran. The Pentagon then trains rebels fighting ISIS rather than Assad as they are now a bigger threat. Turkey starts bombing the Kurds in Iraq but doesn't bomb ISIS. The whole thing then threatens to escalate massively when Russia backs Assad and bombs anti-Assad rebels.
Its a total mess and one we should never have got involved in to start off with. The problem you have now is its so complex its hard to see where the solution lies. Bombing isn't the answer. The more the West does that the more traction ISIS gets in the region. Usually you would say nothing can be resolved until people get round the table and start talking. Sure we say we don't talk with terrorists but history tells you otherwise, just look at Ireland. However now you have a group in ISIS that are so out there in their beliefs it will be near impossible to reach any sort of agreement even if we did talk to them.
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
Top post. Excellent synopsis.
Covstu
Well-Known Member
Agreed but when does the machine guns change to high level explosives then to nuclear/biological weapons? With countries like SArabia, surely this is a possibility at the right price...
Didn't is take their weapons of the Syrian and Libyan armies when they ran away from thr fight?
The five permanent members of the UN Security Council: UK, France, US, Russia and China
The five biggest arms dealers in the world: UK, France, US, Russia and China
The biggest "customer" in the Middle East of arms dealing: Saudi Arabia
The main sponsors of Isis and AL Qeada: Saudi Arabia
The response to recent attacks: Bomb the hell out of the terrorists
The result: More innocents killed and more refugees - and more excuse for terrorists
The attitude of many: the refugees aren't our problem and they will have terrorists amongst them, so keep them out!
The historical context: Imperialism - UK, France, Saudi Arabia et al
Does that excuse Isis et al: No, but it creates a power vaccume
Who are the beneficiaries: The Saudis seem ok, and the arms sales don't seem to have been hindered it seems
The five biggest arms dealers in the world: UK, France, US, Russia and China
The biggest "customer" in the Middle East of arms dealing: Saudi Arabia
The main sponsors of Isis and AL Qeada: Saudi Arabia
The response to recent attacks: Bomb the hell out of the terrorists
The result: More innocents killed and more refugees - and more excuse for terrorists
The attitude of many: the refugees aren't our problem and they will have terrorists amongst them, so keep them out!
The historical context: Imperialism - UK, France, Saudi Arabia et al
Does that excuse Isis et al: No, but it creates a power vaccume
Who are the beneficiaries: The Saudis seem ok, and the arms sales don't seem to have been hindered it seems
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
If the two Gulf Wars and Afghanistan are anything to goby don't forget the politicians chums getting all the multimillion contracts torebuild the country after its been flattened.
It's almost comical that America and Britain, who have invaded pretty mucheverywhere, now try and police the world and complain about invasions. All thetime telling people they shouldn't have nuclear weapons while we proposespending billions on a trident replacement and selling them the arms we are complainingabout them using.
As I said earlier I am torn with all this. So given the previous posts portraying us as the bad guys, do we sit back and soak it up until these people exact their revenge for our misdemeanours and hope that we change our foreign policy to give us a more popular image in the world. The long term goal being we are no longer targets?
mechaishida
Well-Known Member
Politics is a cabaret, set and scripted by the 'powers that be', there is a war coming in the Middle East and it will be terrible. WW3 material.
We, in the West, will make ourselves even easier targets by our war on Islam.
Again, my opinions aren't popular, I'm no political analyst, but the inevitable is a major war.
I don't think it's as clear as good and bad but it's human nature to retaliate when attacked, this just causes a endless cycle of tit for tat violence. Then again can we really expect the French to do nothing? Does that then show weakness and attract more attacks? Fucked if I know
CCFC Germany
Active Member
That's a little bit too "simple" for me and absolutely not what I meant.
It's not about us being "bad guys" or not, but just that bombing the IS alone will not stop them, but looking where they came from and how they grew so big (which partly is "our" fault) seems to be the only way to stop them.
I'm afraid, we will be targets for ages, but we might weaken ISIS, when it's done the right way.
I don't think there's a chance of us not being targets for ISIS, as they are filled with irrational hatred. But they might be weakened enough to be not such a big thread. But we are nowhere closing of even starting that.