Back to being the biggest club in Coventry? (30 Viewers)

[Grendel]

All opinions on here are exactly what they are, opinions.
Just because my opinion is different to yours doesn't make it wrong.
If your opinions are based on facts then your a better man than I am.

At least I try to offer an explanation which is more than your irritating squeaking over Grendels shoulder does.

If Grendel says Wasps have not sold out corporate for this Sunday do you believe him or me ?

They block book them, also plenty of tickets still for sale in the areas designated corporate when the football club play there. Ownership of the stadium is a huge advantage as they can block book the corporate seats and allocate rooms for people using the hotel. The football club cannot - another reason we need to leave.

 

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[Nick]

You'll be printing my name soon you irritating little man.

I heard hes going to make a fancy gif to show his support

 

[Grendel]

I am still waiting for Italia or perhaps his yellow jacketed attentend waspstony to answer this question below;

Our average ticket price was £10 in our last season in the championship. So even at an average of 17,000 a game (optimistic) the revenue generated is at best £6 - £7 million. Most clubs who can use the ground all year round have far greater levels of turnover and they need it. Look at the attached. Look at the revenue achieved by the likes of Birmingham City and explain to me how that would ever be achieved on a 23 day rental deal at the Ricoh.

Where do you think we would sit if we were included in this league table? As an independent analyst what would you do on a Ricoh rental deal to grow the revenue to even moderately competitive levels?

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...nces-2012-2013

I am sure their collective brains will have a strategy in place

 

[italiahorse]

I am still waiting for Italia or perhaps his yellow jacketed attentend waspstony to answer this question below;

Our average ticket price was £10 in our last season in the championship. So even at an average of 17,000 a game (optimistic) the revenue generated is at best £6 - £7 million. Most clubs who can use the ground all year round have far greater levels of turnover and they need it. Look at the attached. Look at the revenue achieved by the likes of Birmingham City and explain to me how that would ever be achieved on a 23 day rental deal at the Ricoh.

Where do you think we would sit if we were included in this league table? As an independent analyst what would you do on a Ricoh rental deal to grow the revenue to even moderately competitive levels?

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...nces-2012-2013

I am sure their collective brains will have a strategy in place

It's not a question of where we would sit but which option is better for us to maximise our incomes.
Until we see a breakdown of both options including Stadium ownership, rents paid, access to what incomes then we are guessing.
Both options may put us at the bottom but which one is best.

Oh yea, your figures are wrong £10 x 17,000 x 23 = £3.91M

 

[Grendel]

It's not a question of where we would sit but which option is better for us to maximise our incomes.
Until we see a breakdown of both options including Stadium ownership, rents paid, access to what incomes then we are guessing.
Both options may put us at the bottom but which one is best.

Oh yea, your figures are wrong £10 x 17,000 x 23 = £3.91M

The figures clearly assume that match day sponsorship, corporate, parking, programmes, shirt sales will generate some income. The uplift looks reasonable.

Your response is absurd,

"which option is better for us to maximise our incomes"

Well - all the clubs on the list I believe have 365 day revenue access and most far more revenue that we achieved in our relegation season - but with less crowds.

So again I ask you how can we better the incomes with a 23 day deal for the year? What do you think can be done to achieve £14 - £15 million revenues over 23 days. Please enlighten us Italia.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I bought it up to say that incomes like corporate will increase as we get a higher profile regardless of the sport.
Grendel said that Wasps couldn't give corporate away so I corrected him.

If you want to sit there being fed bulls8it then good look to you.

Wrong You were the one that brought up that Wasps had sold out the corporate first

Unable to buy Corporate for Wasps this weekend is a clue.

Then Grendel responded to that he had been offered it for freeand it went on from there. Who is right is irrelevant, I suspect you were probably right here but like I say not the point.

So yes, you are a liar. You weren't responding to his claim that they couldn't give them away, he was in fact responding to your statement that they are unavailable.

Rich coming from you about lapping up bullshit :facepalm:

 

[Nick]

So again I ask you how can we better the incomes with a 23 day deal for the year? What do you think can be done to achieve £14 - £15 million revenues over 23 days. Please enlighten us Italia.

Just have to ask Wasps for some of theirs?

 

[Moff]

You'll be printing my name soon you irritating little man.

Irritating little man, look (not luck) at yourself.

Why would I post your name? Who are you? Prick will do for you.
Talk about paranoid, I dont know you, you freak, why do you want to meet up to see if I am a little man or not? :laugh:

 

[skybluetony176]

I am still waiting for Italia or perhaps his yellow jacketed attentend waspstony to answer this question below;

Our average ticket price was £10 in our last season in the championship. So even at an average of 17,000 a game (optimistic) the revenue generated is at best £6 - £7 million. Most clubs who can use the ground all year round have far greater levels of turnover and they need it. Look at the attached. Look at the revenue achieved by the likes of Birmingham City and explain to me how that would ever be achieved on a 23 day rental deal at the Ricoh.

Where do you think we would sit if we were included in this league table? As an independent analyst what would you do on a Ricoh rental deal to grow the revenue to even moderately competitive levels?

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...nces-2012-2013

I am sure their collective brains will have a strategy in place

Didn't Birmingham get relegated from the premier league in 2011 so they were still recieving parachute payments?

 

[skybluetony176]

You clearly do, as does Tony. Quite telling really.

Hey, I'm not the one who gave 3 different excuses as to why they recieve Wasps ticketing information in a matter of minutes.

 

[skybluetony176]

The figures clearly assume that match day sponsorship, corporate, parking, programmes, shirt sales will generate some income. The uplift looks reasonable.

Your response is absurd,

"which option is better for us to maximise our incomes"

Well - all the clubs on the list I believe have 365 day revenue access and most far more revenue that we achieved in our relegation season - but with less crowds.

So again I ask you how can we better the incomes with a 23 day deal for the year? What do you think can be done to achieve £14 - £15 million revenues over 23 days. Please enlighten us Italia.

All of which are available at the Ricoh too.

Italia is right on this one. Until we have seen the business case for both options we don't know which is best for the club. At the end of the day if renting at the Ricoh can sit us higher in the list you're scrambling over than a ground we own with a 15-17K capacity then surely even you can accept that renting at the Ricoh is the better option for the club?

 

[Grendel]

All of which are available at the Ricoh too.

Italia is right on this one. Until we have seen the business case for both options we don't know which is best for the club. At the end of the day if renting at the Ricoh can sit us higher in the list you're scrambling over than a ground we own with a 15-17K capacity then surely even you can accept that renting at the Ricoh is the better option for the club?

We had less revenue than all but three of the clubs on that list in our final championship season so no he is hopelessly wrong as usual.

 

[Grendel]

Wrong You were the one that brought up that Wasps had sold out the corporate first

Unable to buy Corporate for Wasps this weekend is a clue.

Then Grendel responded to that he had been offered it for freeand it went on from there. Who is right is irrelevant, I suspect you were probably right here but like I say not the point.

So yes, you are a liar. You weren't responding to his claim that they couldn't give them away, he was in fact responding to your statement that they are unavailable.

Rich coming from you about lapping up bullshit :facepalm:

The corporate arrangement for CCFC actually used to be very good prior to Wasps as I have always stated. Now it is a poorer experience for a number of factors. The Wasps organisation block book a lot of rooms even on match days for CCFC (god knows what they do) so it blocks entrances to certain areas. It is a real pain.

 

[Grendel]

Hey, I'm not the one who gave 3 different excuses as to why they recieve Wasps ticketing information in a matter of minutes.

Excuses? I think not, what a moron you are waspstony

 

[skybluetony176]

We had less revenue than all but three of the clubs on that list in our final championship season so no he is hopelessly wrong as usual.

Were those three Blackpool, Bristol and Peterborough by any chance?

 

[skybluetony176]

Excuse 1

No Tony nice try - you only have to view the site to attract interest. Always good to see what is going on.

When I questioned that excuse you came up with excuse 2

I receive offers via an alternate source who do have my E-Mail address -- offers which I have previously posted on here.

Why on earth would I buy tickets for Wasps? Unlike Italia if I wanted to go (which I do not) I would just take advantage of the free offers.

As I rejected the offer of the World Cup Final including overnight stays etc. I think its safe to say this sport does not register on my zone of interest.

Nice attempt at diversion though.

You then tried to make out it was a conversation. So clearly not an email. Excuse 3

Nope other sources have the offers. What do you want me to do record the conversation?

Exeter sold out? What in the Legends area - are you sure?

Excuses? I think not, what a moron you are waspstony

You were saying WaspsGrendull? You've purchased some wasps tickets, just admit it.

 

[covmark]

Ha tbf, Grendels had his pants pulled down

 

[skybluetony176]

We had less revenue than all but three of the clubs on that list in our final championship season so no he is hopelessly wrong as usual.

Just had a proper look at the list. When you say revenue I assume you mean turnover which would mean that the only three clubs that had lower revenue than us in our last year in the championship were Barnsley, Bristol and Peterborough. 2 out of 3, not a bad guess that. I guess Blackpool were still recieving some parachute payments.

Anyway Barnsley's stadium capacity 23K, Bristols 16.6K and Peterborough 15K. Although (according to wiki) Barnsley biggest gate of the season was 15.7K and there lowest was 8K.

So what your list does show us that being only able to accomodate/attract 15-18K probably means that we will probably be better of at the Ricoh, even on the old rent deal with no access to income than owning the BPA with 15K rising to 17K capacity with access to all revenue.

Of course this is only an indicator not a definitive answer. You need a full and costed business case for both scenario's to find the definitive answer.

 

[stupot07]

Just had a proper look at the list. When you say revenue I assume you mean turnover which would mean that the only three clubs that had lower revenue than us in our last year in the championship were Barnsley, Bristol and Peterborough. 2 out of 3, not a bad guess that. I guess Blackpool were still recieving some parachute payments.

Anyway Barnsley's stadium capacity 23K, Bristols 16.6K and Peterborough 15K. Although (according to wiki) Barnsley biggest gate of the season was 15.7K and there lowest was 8K.

So what your list does show us that being only able to accomodate/attract 15-18K probably means that we will probably be better of at the Ricoh, even on the old rent deal with no access to income than owning the BPA with 15K rising to 17K capacity with access to all revenue.

Of course this is only an indicator not a definitive answer. You need a full and costed business case for both scenario's to find the definitive answer.

These teams all had lower than 15k average (the season before our turnover was £10.7m with 15.1k average)

Watford capacity 21.5k (ave att: 13.4k) £18.1 turnover
Burnley capacity 21.4k (ave att: 12.9k) - £15.3m turnover
Millwall 20.4k (ave att: 10.5k) - £12.8m turnover

Even Millwall with 33% less attendances brought in 20% more revenues than us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[skybluetony176]

These teams all had lower than 15k average (the season before our turnover was £10.7m with 15.1k average)

Watford capacity 21.5k (ave att: 13.4k) £18.1 turnover
Burnley capacity 21.4k (ave att: 12.9k) - £15.3m turnover
Millwall 20.4k (ave att: 10.5k) - £12.8m turnover

Even Millwall with 33% less attendances brought in 20% more revenues than us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Indeed. As I said it's not a definitive answer. You'll only get that from fully costed business plans for both options.

Off course the list is thin on detail also. It doesn't tell you how that turnover was generated. What were their average ticket price for instance, did they get a big cup draw (what was the Arsenal game worth again to us) winnings from league position (we were relegated so ours would have been one of the lowest in the championship that season) player sales, was any equity put in, TV money etc etc.

One thing for sure is that if you build a 15k capacity stadium you know that your earning potential is limited with ticket sales and we all know at this level ticket revenue is the golden ticket. So to speak.

(edit) did Burnley receive a parachute payment that year.

 

[chiefdave]

So what your list does show us that being only able to accomodate/attract 15-18K probably means that we will probably be better of at the Ricoh, even on the old rent deal with no access to income than owning the BPA with 15K rising to 17K capacity with access to all revenue.

Wouldn't you need to average things out to prove something like that? So take every teams average attendance and work out revenue per 1000 or something similar?

 

[skybluetony176]

Wouldn't you need to average things out to prove something like that? So take every teams average attendance and work out revenue per 1000 or something similar?

Indeed. And also thing's like average ticket cost, income from player sales, equity stakes, cup earnings, parachute payments etc etc.

Like I said it doesn't give a definitive answer, just an indicator. We need fully costed business plan's before making the leap into a 15-17k stadium. What happens if we go up this season and stay up with average gates of 20k? Are we really going to up sticks and drop our attendances by 3-5k and the lost revenue that goes with that?

No ticket revenue isn't going to win you the league on it's own but it is the biggest single revenue maker unless you're in the premier league or just dropped out of it and to ignore the fact that it is the key provider of your playing budget is stupid. If we can never sell more than 15k that's relegating us to championship strugglers/league one-championship yo yo team. It will zap the club of ambition and that could have a negative effect on everything about the club.

 

[Moff]

Hey, I'm not the one who gave 3 different excuses as to why they recieve Wasps ticketing information in a matter of minutes.

Apologies Tony. I dragged you unfairly into Italia's world.

 

[Grendel]

Excuse 1



When I questioned that excuse you came up with excuse 2



You then tried to make out it was a conversation. So clearly not an email. Excuse 3





You were saying WaspsGrendull? You've purchased some wasps tickets, just admit it.

Er no. I get a Wasps newsletter from one source which I am sure even you can work out where from. I get retail offers from a second source that I am an associate of, which has a fairly publicised association with the club and in one thread when Wasps first came I joined their site to see how many tickets they sold for game one.

So I actually get communications from three sources.

Corporate tickets are purchased in bulk and I have been offered a ticket this weekend from two companies.

When I say "offers" I clearly mean the special offer e-mails I receive that I have posted on this site.

 

[skybluetony176]

Er no. I get a Wasps newsletter from one source which I am sure even you can work out where from. I get retail offers from a second source that I am an associate of, which has a fairly publicised association with the club and in one thread when Wasps first came I joined their site to see how many tickets they sold for game one.

So I actually get communications from three sources.

Corporate tickets are purchased in bulk and I have been offered a ticket this weekend from two companies.

When I say "offers" I clearly mean the special offer e-mails I receive that I have posted on this site.

Yeah, if you say so. Like I said to you earlier, keep changing your story that always makes it more believable.

So which games have you been to?

 

[Grendel]

Yeah, if you say so. Like I said to you earlier, keep changing your story that always makes it more believable.

So which games have you been to?

As many as CCFC games you have been to Tony

 

[skybluetony176]

As many CCFC games as you Tony

Four this season then. Have they played four home games yet? Maybe you're so keen you went to the Saints friendly too or did an away game. Fair play to you WaspsGrendull.

 

[Grendel]

Four this season then. Have they played four home games yet? Maybe you're so keen you went to the Saints friendly too or did an away game. Fair play to you WaspsGrendull.

Yet an absence on matchday threads - odd that

 

[skybluetony176]

Yet an absence on matchday threads - odd that

That definitely means I don't go then. 100% proof. What a genius you are.

 

[italiahorse]

Thank god you are looking at how CCFC can make the most of Wasps 'firm estbalishment' I bet Tim Fisher will be on the phone to you straight away, just like Wasps are likely to fold now they have been discussed on this site.

Sisu tactic books...bloody hell how old are you.

You sir are off your f*cking chain.

Haha throws his dolly out of the pram when I disagree. You are just a disharmonious prick.

When I write posts disproving the crap you write, or asking you to evidence the spurious shit you write, you ignore my posts as you just write a total heap of crap and havent got a leg to stand on.

Its got to the point where I just have lost the politeness and say it as it is. I contribute a whole lot more than the utter bollocks you write K, so keep living in your little bubble.

Utter crap, I have questioned your points saliently on many occasions, but you regularly fail to respond, basically as you haven’t a leg to stand on, and what you write is based on little or no fact.

If I were honest though you really are a grade A prick. The club doesn’t give a shit what you think, nor do Wasps, so all this shit about finding a solution, is just that shit. If you think otherwise then you are deluded.

Thanks for the completely irrelevant quotation. I have my own ideas on what the club should do, I can suggest plenty of ways forward it’s just I am not an idiot like you in thinking that the Club will read a forum and act on it ffs.
My principles, thank goodness, differ to yours, but your logic is, if I don’t agree then I am part of the problem, whereas you just can’t see its people like you that are it, as your solutions include such epics as hoping wasps takeover the club.

You are such a self-inflated sanctimonious twat K, I just can’t believe you take what you write seriously, but realise you do.
The mark of you is that you constantly write such crap at a time the club are doing well, and yet you seem to take little or no satisfaction in the clubs achievements on the field, as you just try to push towards us becoming part of Wasps franchise off it.

Italis a c*nt. If he gives it, I give it back. He cant take it though.

Irritating little man, look (not luck) at yourself.

Why would I post your name? Who are you? Prick will do for you.
Talk about paranoid, I dont know you, you freak, why do you want to meet up to see if I am a little man or not? :laugh:

I call you a little man and it's fighting talk. Read back your posts and get over yourself.
You printed my name in an earlier posts and it was edited by the admin.
It was a veiled threat that you knew who I was, when in reality with a little research anybody can get it.

 

[Moff]

I call you a little man and it's fighting talk. Read back your posts and get over yourself.
You printed my name in an earlier posts and it was edited by the admin.
It was a veiled threat that you knew who I was, when in reality with a little research anybody can get it.

Wrong I edited it. I left it up just long enough for you to see it. It was done to wind you up little man, seemed it worked.

I dont care who you are or your name, its just you pompously stated how you were wumming so I just decided to get up your nose instead. Perhaps you need to get over yourself before you start wumming if you cant take a bit back.
So is it fighting talk or not :laugh:

 

[italiahorse]

Wrong I edited it. I left it up just long enough for you to see it. It was done to wind you up little man, seemed it worked.

I dont care who you are or your name, its just you pompously stated how you were wumming so I just decided to get up your nose instead. Perhaps you need to get over yourself before you start wumming if you cant take a bit back.
So is it fighting talk or not :laugh:

You do know that when you edit something it advises at the bottom don't you ?
I've never said I'm Wumming and you don't get up my nose

All my posts follow a central theme.
Wasps are here and staying. I'm not happy with that but now it's happened we should work with them.
We need to get a 10 year rolling deal on the best terms possible and that means getting the legal battles out the way.
On the new stadium Sisu need to show the business case that building it is better than staying at the Ricoh.
Both situations might not get us to the PL but which is best in view of where we are.
People should just enjoy the football and if they enjoy the rugby as well than that's okay as well.

 

[Nick]

Can it sort of get beck on topic without fighting talk?

 

[stupot07]

You do know that when you edit something it advises at the bottom don't you ?
I've never said I'm Wumming and you don't get up my nose

All my posts follow a central theme.
Wasps are here and staying. I'm not happy with that but now it's happened we should work with them.
We need to get a 10 year rolling deal on the best terms possible and that means getting the legal battles out the way.
On the new stadium Sisu need to show the business case that building it is better than staying at the Ricoh.
Both situations might not get us to the PL but which is best in view of where we are.
People should just enjoy the football and if they enjoy the rugby as well than that's okay as well.

If by getting the legal battles out the way you mean dropping them, well that's not going to happen, so like you say - let's not talk about what we can't change.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

If by getting the legal battles out the way you mean dropping them, well that's not going to happen, so like you say - let's not talk about what we can't change.


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sisu are not going to drop any legal battles they kept going when they seemed to have no chance and now they have nudged the door open they are going to try to kick it wide open.