2 presents from Jordan Clarke (1 Viewer)

covcity4life · Nov 18, 2013

i think we are all enjoying it, but its not moaning to see possible issues thats all.

we are top scorers in england but 4th/5th in league 1 without deduction,thats shows if we can make minor improvements we can be the best in the division and that should always be the aim.

LB87ccfc · Nov 18, 2013

FFS Clarke makes a couple of mistakes and everyone wants to tear into him, yet a couple of weeks ago it was Clarke has been a real rock and has really grown into the position, some forget we still have a very young squad and errors are made at all levels of football.. everyone makes a mistake or two now and again, but for me whilst he plays in Sky Blue I will say this.. Pick yourself up son and go again.

The Gentleman · Nov 18, 2013

LB87ccfc said:
FFS Clarke makes a couple of mistakes and everyone wants to tear into him, yet a couple of weeks ago it was Clarke has been a real rock and has really grown into the position, some forget we still have a very young squad and errors are made at all levels of football.. everyone makes a mistake or two now and again, but for me whilst he plays in Sky Blue I will say this.. Pick yourself up son and go again.

Who is tearing into him ? you have people highlighting some mistakes he is making which is two totally different things. Do you not think that behind the cameras or closed doors Pressley is not showing him the mistakes he is making and trying to make him a better player and not to make them again or do you think he just says head up son it don't matter. Pressley looks upto Alex Ferguson and do you not think that he didn't tear into his players ? If we play a high line I have no problems with Jordan Clarke because he has pace and can read the game but Webster turns like the Titanic so naturally we drop deeper the further the game goes on, as I said in an earlier post , it is just at the end of matches when teams just lump it forward to massive forwards who will out muscle as much as out jump him where he is lacking, if he had someone covering him or a midfielder dropping deep it may not matter but to me Webster doesn't look fit. This isn't knocking him or tearing him to shreds, it is just how I see it but late goals can cost us later in the season and as much as some people on this forum say they are happy with where we are and how far we have come, but I think we all think we are more than capable of making the playoffs.

Grendel · Nov 18, 2013

LB87ccfc said:
FFS Clarke makes a couple of mistakes and everyone wants to tear into him, .

Leon Clark gets far more stick and he does his job successfully week in week out.

covcity4life · Nov 19, 2013

sky blue john why so quiet all of a sudden?

sky blue john · Nov 19, 2013

covcity4life said:
sky blue john why so quiet all of a sudden?

Not quiet at all just busy working for a living. I will get back to you at some point to explain further the evolution of the modern game.

covcity4life · Nov 19, 2013

sky blue john said:
Not quiet at all just busy working for a living. I will get back to you at some point to explain further the evolution of the modern game.

lol you still cant admit what you said about 2 big cb not working was dumb can you?

you got embarrassed yesterday mate, don't do it again!

covboy9 · Nov 19, 2013

covcity4life said:
lol you still cant admit what you said about 2 big cb not working was dumb can you?

you got embarrassed yesterday mate, don't do it again!

what does embarrassed on a forum look like?:facepalm:

covcity4life · Nov 19, 2013

covboy9 said:
what does embarrassed on a forum look like?:facepalm:

yeh kinda like that

hill83 · Nov 19, 2013

Might take sky blue john off ignore for this one.

*Settles in*

Grendel · Nov 19, 2013

covcity4life said:
sky blue john why so quiet all of a sudden?

He's busy playing football manager with Michael Misfud and Michael Gynn as his two centre halves.

will am i · Nov 19, 2013

Grendel said:
He's busy playing football manager with Michael Misfud and Michael Gynn as his two centre halves.

Another constructive contribution.

Your alternatives to Jordan Clarke are? Can I take Murphy and Webster out of the team for their part in the first goal. And Callum Wilson as he missed a couple of chances.

sky blue john · Nov 19, 2013

covcity4life said:
too bad he doesnt. hehe

This counts as not slagging off one of our players ?

sky blue john · Nov 19, 2013

sky blue john said:
Lol lets put two big centre backs together, what a muppet of a comment.[/
QUOTE]

This was in reply to you replacing JC with another big CB to play along side Webster.
Now my point is that SP sets his team up to play a high line squeezing the oposition in their half. This requires one of our CB's having enough pace to get us out of trouble when the ball is played into our half or over the top.
In the modern game more top teams forward lines have changed with less emphasise on size and more on pace and skill in the final third.
If we had two Websters at the back SP would be unable to play the system we currently do !!!!!
If covcity4life or Grendel sees SP's tactics different to this i will look forward to their comments ???????

Sutty · Nov 19, 2013

If we can find a player with Clarke's pace, reading of the game and positional awareness, with a few inches on top, all within our budget, then great, I'm all ears. However, as players like that are hard to come by at our level, it's likely we'll have to settle for a centre back who has a deficiency or two in their game.

Clarke's height is an issue at times, but how many goals are actually coming as a result of that? Bradford's third was certainly, but I can't remember too many more where his height has cost us. Sure, the first goal was poor from him but it's the kind of mistake I can't see him making too often. It certainly wasn't his height that was the issue.

You could also blame him for Wimbledon's goal the other week. However, that's the kind of thing that will occasionally happen when we try to play out from the back. It's very easy to quantify and apportion blame when someone gives the ball away at the back. It's less easy to quantify who's to blame for goals against teams who just punt the ball away from those areas, inviting further pressure on their defence as, more often than not, they concede possession of the ball. Again, his height wasn't the issue.

I think we just have to accept that our defenders at this level will have deficiencies that get exposed every once in a while. Webster's lack of pace gets us in trouble occasionally. Richard Wood used to give away stupid penalties. Edjenguele used to get turned by nippy strikers. Even Richard Keogh, who everyone rated, used to dive in unnecessarily at times. Sometimes we will concede goals because Clarke's lack of height gets exposed. All Pressley and his staff can do is work on his game (his strengths and his weaknesses) and find a partnership that complement each other.

This season I've seen us dominate 3 or 4 games, and each time Jordan Clarke has been key in maintaining the pressure on the opponent with his calmness on the ball and willingness to retain possession. So I also think we have to consider the effect on our attacking game before replacing Clarke.

I'm not very good at getting my points across in writing, but I hope you get my drift.

hill83 · Nov 19, 2013

May I mention that Jordan Clarke is 6ft tall. The same, for example as Richard Keogh.
Just saying.

Ha, it says Jordan Willis is shorter at 5ft 11 on the official website, so who knows!

covcity4life · Nov 19, 2013

sky blue john said:
sky blue john said:

Lol lets put two big centre backs together, what a muppet of a comment.[/
QUOTE]

This was in reply to you replacing JC with another big CB to play along side Webster.
Now my point is that SP sets his team up to play a high line squeezing the oposition in their half. This requires one of our CB's having enough pace to get us out of trouble when the ball is played into our half or over the top.
In the modern game more top teams forward lines have changed with less emphasise on size and more on pace and skill in the final third.
If we had two Websters at the back SP would be unable to play the system we currently do !!!!!
If covcity4life or Grendel sees SP's tactics different to this i will look forward to their comments ???????

Click to expand...

why are you making stuff up? i clearly told you yesterday that i had time for your pace theory.

but when i say another big CB where the fuck do you get fof assuming i mean 2 websters? are you really that sterotypical that you think all big guys are slow and all small guys fast?

why cant you just admit you are at fault for taking my big man point the wrong way and then adding to the stupidity of it all by making out big man/small man is the only way to go?

come on kid, do the right thing and lets move on.

sky blue john · Nov 19, 2013

covcity4life said:
Were not allowed to critic Jordan clarke on this
forum

Improved a lot but he is not a centre back. Cost us 2 goals. Need a big man to partner Webster.

Gutted but it was a pen. If he wasn't so short he wjdbr have to leap like that

Not a cb!

I've not made anything up !!!!!!

covcity4life · Nov 19, 2013

sky blue john said:
I've not made anything up !!!!!!

omg why do you persist with this crap?

WHERE HAVE I SAID WE NEED TO SIGN A SLOW TALL CB??????????????????????????????

show me!

Hobo · Nov 19, 2013

Our back four passing the ball and building from the back, the best I've seen for years. Clarke is key in that, he is also mobile which is good cover for Websters lack of pace.

At the moment at set pieces only Webster jumps like he can win the ball. Leon Clarke comes back but isn't convincing in the air. We need to be more competitive in the air, nothing to do with height it is determination and belief.

Passing football is great and the way to go. The back four just need to learn the scruffy stuff. Sometimes just put the ball dead out of play, regroup and defend.

Paul McGrath Man Utd and Aston Villa was superb at it, get something on it and put the ball dead.

covcity4life · Nov 19, 2013

agreed hobo, its great we pass ball more now but if we cant do basic defending we will continue to concede so many

either clarke has to improve even more than he has already on the basics or we need someone with better physical attributes or stature who can also play the ball on the floor. we cant just accept a bad goals conceded record forever.

these are decisions SP has to make but we as fans should be able to speculate without people like john talking down to us.

sky blue john · Nov 19, 2013

covcity4life said:
Matt Hummels Height: 6'3"
koscielny Height: 6'1"
subotic Height: 6'4"
komany Height: 6'3''
dawson Height: 6'3"
pique Height: 6'3''
Puyol Height: 6'0''
vidic Height: 6'3''

I AM NOT SAYING JORDAN CLARKE CANNOT MAKE IT. i sincerely hope he does,as i said in my first post he has improved alot,if he can keep doing it then maybe he will make it for us. but the above shows that best defenders in world football are tall, and their partners will be tall also,so to act like someone saying they want 2 tall center backs is silly is quite frankly absurd.

you are an immature little boy and i am sorry i had to take you to school like this, better luck next time kid.

noone in this thread has said they want clarke dropped next game, just looking into possibilites if mistakes are not eradicated. and thats all i got to say on the matter.

No your in cloud cuckoo land trying to compare him with the players above !!!!!!!!

will am i · Nov 19, 2013

covcity4life said:
omg why do you persist with this crap?

WHERE HAVE I SAID WE NEED TO SIGN A SLOW TALL CB??????????????????????????????

show me!

so you want a 6' 4" pacy centre half who can pass the ball - a young Rio Ferdinad would be great but where is this centre half that we can afford. League 1 and with what we have we are doing alright. We all want better players, but we have what we have try backing them instead of moaning when they make a mistake. We dont have the money or the status to sign the player you seem to want. Or if we do, please name him. I'll take mistakes if we are going to play passing football. Preferable to hoofing it.

covcity4life · Nov 19, 2013

sky blue john said:
No your in cloud cuckoo land trying to compare him with the players above !!!!!!!!

ahhaah now you are trying to take the argument in a different direction because you know you are in the wrong about what i originally said.

and above clearly shows i am not comparing jordan clarke to best defenders in the world. its patently obvious that i am saying the best CB are quite tall,and also that not all tall cb are slow as the above shows. it further proves how stupid you are that you kept saying only big man/small man can work at the back.

im sorry i had to do this to you today but quite frankly you asked for it.

ajsccfc · Nov 19, 2013

I'd have thought listing the height of those players made it obvious that it was the relevant point and it was clearly a comment on the height of some famous players. It's not like a fun fact for trivia fans who might be reading.

covcity4life · Nov 19, 2013

ajsccfc said:
I'd have thought listing the height of those players made it obvious that it was the relevant point and it was clearly a comment on the height of some famous players. It's not like a fun fact for trivia fans who might be reading.

yup and also he is ignoring the fact that i have not given up on clarke and called time, i am just not as confident as some in him and looking into alternatives should we need to change.

too many fans turn a blind eye to JC cos hes home grown i guess, bit like some did with mcsheffrey last year, its not bullying to not be sold on him. some fans aint football fans though, just cov fans. i am both.

sky blue john · Nov 19, 2013

covcity4life said:
agreed
hobo, its great we pass ball more now but if we cant do basic defending we will continue to concede so many

either clarke has to improve even more than he has already on the basics or we need someone with better physical attributes or stature who can also play the ball on the floor. we cant just accept a bad goals conceded record forever.

these are decisions SP has to make but we as fans should be able to speculate without people like john talking down to us.

The problem is you didn't start by speculating and offer solutions you slagged off the player and said he wasn't a centre back and can't jump.
Players don't peak until about 28 he is still developing.
It is a confidence position though and any mistakes tend to get punished. There are plenty of our other players in midfield and up front that have given away cheap possession but don't get punished.

covcity4life · Nov 19, 2013

sky blue john said:
The problem is you didn't start by speculating and offer solutions you slagged off the player and said he wasn't a centre back and can't jump.
Players don't peak until about 28 he is still developing.
It is a confidence position though and any mistakes tend to get punished. There are plenty of our other players in midfield and up front that have given away cheap possession but don't get punished.

fuck me 28...we cant make a decision on the guy till hes 28?

i said hes not a CB in my opinion! this is a football forum! ive said numerous times how admirable it is that he has improved so much, look at the thread from a few days ago where we were asked who most suprising player was and i said jordan clarke, there is no getting on anyones back here, lets stop the crybaby attitude around JC please.

he is not the tallest and he is getting out jumped,thats a fact, not all the time but it is happening. i am looking at ways to change that as i prioritise jumping over playing ball to fleck, one is more important and one is easier than the other to learn.

so once again i say SP either turns clarke into the player he wants or he changes personal, i know which i would do right now and you know which you would do. i said i respected your opinion but you talked down to anyone who didnt agree with big man/small man CB partnerships which are incredibly rare. that is my only issue with you.

wingy · Nov 19, 2013

How many points has Clarke cost us this season ?How about Murphy,how about Webster? Conversely how many have they saved .Over the last two games I would say the

whole team has not been at it quite as much, the High line ,The Pressing,Players Out through injury and suspension .Cyrus rushing back ,probably too soon ,bedding back in

.Leon not winning any headers ,fortunate with a couple of goals V Wimbledon,sending off decisions on Sunday.The reason we drew on Sunday was not solely down to Two

errors from a player who has pulled up trees this season,but more to do with ,Believing the Hype ,Diminishing Energy levels ,Disruption to the Squad through Injury and

suspension .If the pressure on the back four was expected and lead to the failings we all saw then the rest of the team are equally culpable for sitting deep and letting the

Long ball game of Bradford dictate.

covcity4life · Nov 19, 2013

wingy said:
How many points has Clarke cost us this season ?How about Murphy,how about Webster? Conversely how many have they saved .Over the last two games I would say the

whole team has not been at it quite as much, the High line ,The Pressing,Players Out through injury and suspension .Cyrus rushing back ,probably too soon ,bedding back in

.Leon not winning any headers ,fortunate with a couple of goals V Wimbledon,sending off decisions on Sunday.The reason we drew on Sunday was not solely down to Two

errors from a player who has pulled up trees this season,but more to do with ,Believing the Hype ,Diminishing Energy levels ,Disruption to the Squad through Injury and

suspension .If the pressure on the back four was expected and lead to the failings we all saw then the rest of the team are equally culpable for sitting deep and letting the

Long ball game of Bradford dictate.

you make some good points and not all games are decided by individual errors i agree. however when you have a game where you air kick an easy clearance and give away a blatant hand ball pen you gotta expect some criticisms,it would have been same for any player in any team anywhere.

wingy · Nov 19, 2013

covcity4life said:
you make some good points and not all games are decided by individual errors i agree. however when you have a game where you air kick an easy clearance and give away a blatant hand ball pen you gotta expect some criticisms,it would have been same for any player in any team anywhere.

I don't disagree with your judgement that we need more cover in the CB position and Horses for courses etc,just don't think we need to throw out the baby with the Bathwater,Jeez more Cliches than El Tel here,must master the enter button a little better also.

covcity4life · Nov 19, 2013

wingy said:
I don't disagree with your judgement that we need more cover in the CB position and Horses for courses etc,just don't think we need to throw out the baby with the Bathwater,Jeez more Cliches than El Tel here,must master the enter button a little better also.

i agree, thats the annoying thing abut this thread, i dont want JC dropped 100% and i have faith SP can improve him further, i just wonder if he is the eventual answer or not. its unfair to label people bullies or infer they have lack of football knowledge for doing that.

sky blue john · Nov 19, 2013

I haven't any issues with any combination of sized centre backs as long as they fit the the system the manager is trying to install.
Sometimes you have to compromise Im sure he will be working on weaknesses to improve certain sides of his game. He is only young. I would like to see him command and organise more and this would help with concentration and breed more confidence. But these are traits of a maturer player.

covcity4life · Nov 19, 2013

sky blue john said:
I haven't any issues with any combination of sized centre backs as long as they fit the the system the manager is trying to install.
Sometimes you have to compromise Im sure he will be working on weaknesses to improve certain sides of his game. He is only young. I would like to see him command and organise more and this would help with concentration and breed more confidence. But these are traits of a maturer player.

you could have said all this when i said "you got some interesting points jon" instead of mocking me for saying i wanted another big CB in.

there is no version of this where you are in the right mate. best to leave it now though.

Hobo · Nov 19, 2013

1966 Alf Ramsey phoned up Jack Charlton. "Jack I just want you to know I 've put you in the World Cup Squad. Now lad, I don't want you to go thinking you are the best centre half in the world, because you are not. But you can do a certain type of job for me."

Folks our defence has room for improvement, other players might add something, but over all the future is still rosier than it has been for a long time. Clarke is a good player but can still work on certain aspects.

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