ACL £1m profit? (3 Viewers)

[Grendel]

This just shows that the Ricoh is no longer totally reliant on the club paying its rent. Hopefully this will make SiSU see the light and fook orf

How reassuring to know you are on the other side in this debate. I'm sure they all welcome you on board.

 

---

[coundonskyblue]

I don't think their demands have been unreasonable, the club should have the right to earn F+B its fans make at its events, and I think the 400k figure should be backdated from when we stopped playing, or at minimum, from when we got relegated, I do not think it is fair if the club has to pay for rent in the Olympic months because the club weren't able to use it..

The club sold its rights to income streams, do you think they should be given back to them for free?

The Olympics at the Ricoh were orginised around CCFC's games. Had there been a conflict between these two, the CCFC game would have been given priority.

 

[sky blue john]

Interesting how you are so happy to continue to preach to the deluded and converted.

Still I ask again;

Are the rental arrangements the most punitive for a football club in the English Professional League?
Please advise on the contractual obligation of the main sponsor if the football club exits. Is there an exit clause?
With no football club what in your expert opinion is the likelihood of obtaining a named sponsor post 2015
As a regeneration charity how do you feel your conduct sits with a similar organisation that previously had an interest in a football clubp

Hope the connection is up now

Why are you asking irrelevent questions?
what do you hope to achieve?
ACL have offered a rent reduction get over it !!!

 

[coundonskyblue]

No it doesn't, it's from the year when they were paying the rent.

The year when it wasn't an Olympic venue?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

ACL offered the reduction to try to keep their tenant and to help CCFC - it is not evidence that "the rent was too high" - it patently is not.

Please can you tell me which private sector organisation would let me rent a specifically built facility which cost £20m-£30m for £100k p/a? Go on, the silence is defeaning...nobody has a clue.

You can attack me all you like, call me insults like here, but it doesn't alter the fact you have no argument other than "we want what is good for CCFC"

Well it is evidence, actually, because if ACL thought it was reasonable, they wouldn't negotiate it would they? I wouldn't negotiate a price if I thought it was fair, take or leave it would be my stance.

CCFC have agreed on 400k P/A so your point here is, pointless, they'd want to know what you'd do with the facility, ACL clearly know how CCFC are going to use the RICOH. I don't think SISU thought they could get a rent agreement at 150-213k, I think they used that as a lever in negotiations to get a figure like 400k.

No one has attacked you, get that fabrication out of your head, people have only asked questions of you.

If anyone is denying anything, it is you sunshine. CCFC seems to have fans who think that we are owed special terms as a club just by the very fact of our existence. Why shouldn't ACL make a profit, they don't owe us anything.

Why shouldn't ACL charge £1.2m p/a? It's their stadium and we agreed the terms (perfectly normal terms in the private sector BTW). It's all just pathetic bleating and name calling because you can't get your way, it reminds me of a load of primary school children.

If their main tenant goes elsewhere they lose their revenue from rent AND F+B revenues and it's better to lose some revenue, than to lose all of it, is it not.?

I, nor others haven't called you anything, I'm not like a certain individual.

 

[Grendel]

Why are you asking irrelevent questions?
what do you hope to achieve?
ACL have offered a rent reduction get over it !!!

I'm hoping to get an answer. I know I won't. In not asking you anyway so what is your interest? Are you employed by the council? Next time it snows collect my bin please.

 

[psgm1]

It really annnoys me how the delude back SiSU on this. They had ample opportunity to buy 50% of the club. Currently there are NO SHARES - hence no dividends! It is OWNED by ACL and council 50% each - this is NOT BASED ON SHARES!

Why didn't SiSU take the option in the previous 5 years? Why now should they be given a % of the food & drink? No business in its right mind would give away a major proportion of the income whilst being offered NOTHING for this! This is what SiSU are trying to do - and it is utterly not on!

SiSU KNEW this cap was coming in, and it KNEW thatit needed additional income - so WHY didn't it but this option when things at the club were supposedly in a better state?

The basics are that SiSU saw that the charity was utterly concerned with allowing the club to survive. SiSU came in to make money. Through their OWN incompetence and refusal to buy half the stadium, they brought ALL of the problems on themselves.

Yet again there are the idiotic people who just don't get this! YET AGAIN Old sky blue just doesn't understand what is really going on. But its his inherent ignorance, and blind support of a morally bankrupt organisation that is a disgrace to the club.

SiSU HAD the opportunity to buy half the ground and refused to do so. Its down to SiSU and ONLY SiSU that the club are in the state they are now!

SISU OUT

 

[oldskyblue58]

It's a very lucrative opportunity for the right partner though, surely? The Ricoh has established itself as a national success of a venue and I can only assume interest in getting part of it would be high for anyone with the financial backing to do so.

But I think that any new owner is going to build up a substantial amount of trust with the charity and Council BSB. The SISU tenure at CCFC has damaged much more than the finances. ACL or the site wont be disposed of either in part or in total until the stakeholders feel there is trust and proper detailed financed commitment to the future of the club and site. That put simply is going to take time, years.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The club sold its rights to income streams, do you think they should be given back to them for free?

The Olympics at the Ricoh were orginised around CCFC's games. Had there been a conflict between these two, the CCFC game would have been given priority.

Yes I do, only for CCFC games, though, not a slice of concerts or anything like that, that's what we sold as well, the club deserve the revenue our fellow fans raise at CCFC games, no CCFC, no revenue on match day, is it fair for ACL to leech in this sense? Also, the club need that 100-200k in revenue, no it's not the be all and end all, but it'll help.

The FL moved the fixtures forward so it didn't clash with the Olympics, so we weren't going to clash, and if we had 'priority', why did we have to play all of our preseason games away?

 

[oldskyblue58]

It really annnoys me how the delude back SiSU on this. They had ample opportunity to buy 50% of the club. Currently there are NO SHARES - hence no dividends! It is OWNED by ACL and council 50% each - this is NOT BASED ON SHARES!

Why didn't SiSU take the option in the previous 5 years? Why now should they be given a % of the food & drink? No business in its right mind would give away a major proportion of the income whilst being offered NOTHING for this! This is what SiSU are trying to do - and it is utterly not on!

SiSU KNEW this cap was coming in, and it KNEW thatit needed additional income - so WHY didn't it but this option when things at the club were supposedly in a better state?

The basics are that SiSU saw that the charity was utterly concerned with allowing the club to survive. SiSU came in to make money. Through their OWN incompetence and refusal to buy half the stadium, they brought ALL of the problems on themselves.

Yet again there are the idiotic people who just don't get this! YET AGAIN Old sky blue just doesn't understand what is really going on. But its his inherent ignorance, and blind support of a morally bankrupt organisation that is a disgrace to the club.

SiSU HAD the opportunity to buy half the ground and refused to do so. Its down to SiSU and ONLY SiSU that the club are in the state they are now!

SISU OUT

says far more about your knowledge than i or any one else ever could pal ............. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
thanks for the confirmation of the one thing we all know for certain on this forum !

 

[cloughie]

a couple of days ago in another thread I wrote:

Someone asked how the rental was arrived at: in the final years at HR the lease plus costs was c£900,000. The cost of lease and licence at the Rioch followed that model. It was signed off by Robinson and Brannigan for the Club and Fletcher and McGuigan on behalf of ACL. It had been agreed by the Boards of both ACL and CCFC.

and it is BT who disrupt my internet connection without the need for anybody else's help.

I wouldn't worry about Grendel he has proven not to let facts get in the way of his delusions.

 

[coundonskyblue]

Yes I do, only for CCFC games, though, not a slice of concerts or anything like that, that's what we sold as well, the club deserve the revenue our fellow fans raise at CCFC games, no CCFC, no revenue on match day, is it fair for ACL to leech in this sense? Also, the club need that 100-200k in revenue, no it's not the be all and end all, but it'll help.

The FL moved the fixtures forward so it didn't clash with the Olympics, so we weren't going to clash, and if we had 'priority', why did we have to play all of our preseason games away?

So you think its acceptable to sell something and then ask for it back for free? Why exactly should ACL give these up for free? Should the club not try and offer something to buy these back?

We have priority on competative matches, that doesn't mean the stadium should sit free on the off chance CCFC called a friendly game. Even if we owned the stadium this would be no different. It wouldn't make sense to have a multi purpose venue sitting empty when it could be making money.

 

[CJparker]

How reassuring to know you are on the other side in this debate. I'm sure they all welcome you on board.

What I don't understand is why on earth you think that "the other side in this debate" is even a good way to think about things.

Surely all fans are united in the view that SISU are the enemy and need to be forced out? Surely?

I don;t understand how any genuine one, much less an apparently intelligent one like you, would offer them such trenchant support for no obvious reason

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But I think that any new owner is going to build up a substantial amount of trust with the charity and Council BSB. The SISU tenure at CCFC has damaged much more than the finances. ACL or the site wont be disposed of either in part or in total until the stakeholders feel there is trust and proper detailed financed commitment to the future of the club and site. That put simply is going to take time, years.

Well, 2015 is still a while off yet so who knows what'll unfold in that time OSB. I suppose my point is that both ACL stakeholders are local organisations with a vested interest in Coventry and with that comes the high level of leniency given to the football club. Whoever eventually buys the Higgs stake may have different views.

 

[CJparker]

So you think its acceptable to sell something and then ask for it back for free? Why exactly should ACL give these up for free? Should the club not try and offer something to buy these back?

We have priority on competative matches, that doesn't mean the stadium should sit free on the off chance CCFC called a friendly game. Even if we owned the stadium this would be no different. It wouldn't make sense to have a multi purpose venue sitting empty when it could be making money.

Because if you don't agree with SISU you must by definition want the club to go under, and you must be "a disgrace"

Or...you are capable of viewing the dispute objectively and seeing how weak SISU's position is, and how flagrantly they have tried every trick in the book to get their own way

 

[hill83]

What I don't understand is why on earth you think that "the other side in this debate" is even a good way to think about things.

Surely all fans are united in the view that SISU are the enemy and need to be forced out? Surely?

I don;t understand how any genuine one, much less an apparently intelligent one like you, would offer them such trenchant support for no obvious reason

Genuinely, nobody I speak to, go to matches with, friends or otherwise see SISU as 'the enemy'.
Not one. I only hear it on here and on the telegraph website.

 

[sky blue john]

I'm hoping to get an answer. I know I won't. In not asking you anyway so what is your interest? Are you employed by the council? Next time it snows collect my bin please.

You might get an answer if you were capable of asking a logical question !!!
Also just so i dont forget what day do they put the bins out at your care home?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

So you think its acceptable to sell something and then ask for it back for free? Why exactly should ACL give these up for free? Should the club not try and offer something to buy these back?

We have priority on competative matches, that doesn't mean the stadium should sit free on the off chance CCFC called a friendly game. Even if we owned the stadium this would be no different. It wouldn't make sense to have a multi purpose venue sitting empty when it could be making money.

We sold the right for F+B revenue streams for any event held at the RICOH, including CCFC games, I get that, but I think it is perfectly reasonable and acceptable if that is revised, I'm not saying we should get all of the revenue off concerts, Olympics or Rugby games, but I'm saying we should be entitled to earn our own revenue off events we run, not ACL, CCFC. In the bigger picture, CCFC games F+B revenue streams (probably) don't rival that off concerts and oother big events held in the RICOH. Also, the times have changed, and considering it is the 'poor old charity' and 'poor old council' you think they could lend us a helping hand here. It's 'only' 100-200k isn't it?

 

[torchomatic]

Though to be fair, that is your exact position. You're more than happy to risk the future of the club. And for that you are a disgrace.

And what would you know about objectivity?

Because if you don't agree with SISU you must by definition want the club to go under, and you must be "a disgrace"

Or...you are capable of viewing the dispute objectively and seeing how weak SISU's position is, and how flagrantly they have tried every trick in the book to get their own way

 

[Grendel]

What I don't understand is why on earth you think that "the other side in this debate" is even a good way to think about things.

Surely all fans are united in the view that SISU are the enemy and need to be forced out? Surely?

I don;t understand how any genuine one, much less an apparently intelligent one like you, would offer them such trenchant support for no obvious reason

I repeat there is no support. They own the club -- they have performed no worse or no better than most previous occupants.

Relegation to this league was a statistical inevitability. No other club has survived a decade in the Championship.

Given that I have no particular opinion on them I just see them as the football club. I have long protested at the unjust rental and commercial arrangements the club find themselves in. That is the enemy within and until that is addressed we have no tangible future.

 

[CJparker]

Well it is evidence, actually, because if ACL thought it was reasonable, they wouldn't negotiate it would they? I wouldn't negotiate a price if I thought it was fair, take or leave it would be my stance.

CCFC have agreed on 400k P/A so your point here is, pointless, they'd want to know what you'd do with the facility, ACL clearly know how CCFC are going to use the RICOH. I don't think SISU thought they could get a rent agreement at 150-213k, I think they used that as a lever in negotiations to get a figure like 400k.

No one has attacked you, get that fabrication out of your head, people have only asked questions of you.



If their main tenant goes elsewhere they lose their revenue from rent AND F+B revenues and it's better to lose some revenue, than to lose all of it, is it not.?

I, nor others haven't called you anything, I'm not like a certain individual.

Well people have attacked me personally and viciously - not sure who else you are referring to.

As for the rest of your post, it is purely based on a weak assumption of "a reduction was offered, therefore the rent was too high" - ignoring a whole host of facts, known and unknown, especially that all tenants seek to reduce their rent, or whatever level, and the ACL were dependent on CCFC and were being held over a barrel by the threat of CCFC leaving.

Please, take off your Sky Blue loyalty and view it dispassionately. To any independent observer, SISU's behaviour has been nothing short of scandalous. It is genuinely upsetting to me that a few fans, including ones like you who appear to be intelligent, have been duped into giving them strident backing.

 

[Grendel]

You might get an answer if you were capable of asking a logical question !!!
Also just so i dont forget what day do they put the bins out at your care home?

I don't own a care home. At least you admit to your profession.

 

[cloughie]

I'm hoping to get an answer. I know I won't. In not asking you anyway so what is your interest? Are you employed by the council? Next time it snows collect my bin please.

And people are supposed to take you seriously?

 

[Grendel]

I wouldn't worry about Grendel he has proven not to let facts get in the way of his delusions.

He won't get your sycophantic messages of support - his connection is broken. It must be -- he has not answered my questions. Rest assured though as soon as his ACL friends power him up again the questions will resurface -- there will be no let up.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Genuinely, nobody I speak to, go to matches with, friends or otherwise see SISU as 'the enemy'.
Not one. I only hear it on here and on the telegraph website.

Says it all really, even opposition fans (Donny, who have been there done it) are on the 'enemies' side as well.

For me, it is only CCFC v ACL and many CCFC 'supporters' have essentially deserted the club they 'support', all because of an all-consuming hatred of SISU, and I could almost guarantee had it not been SISU negotiating, the attitude to this fiasco would be a whole-lot different!

Quango or my childhood club? :thinking about:

 

[CJparker]

Though to be fair, that is your exact position. You're more than happy to risk the future of the club. And for that you are a disgrace.

And what would you know about objectivity?

Not it isn't Torch - are you too stupid to read and understand? I don't support CCFC above and beyond everything else, not if that involves supporting immoral actions and unreasonable demands. You are making a leap of logic where every view that doesn't support our objectives wants to see us fold.

I am happy to risk it, yes. But it won't happen - I have explained multiple times why we will not go out of business, just as no other league club has for 20 years. The far bigger risk is leaving your friends SISU in charge.

 

[Grendel]

And people are supposed to take you seriously?

More to the point who has ever taken Sky Blue John seriously -- have you?

 

[CJparker]

Says it all really, even opposition fans (Donny, who have been there done it) are on the 'enemies' side as well.

For me, it is only CCFC v ACL and many CCFC 'supporters' have essentially deserted the club they 'support', all because of an all-consuming hatred of SISU, and I could almost guarantee had it not been SISU negotiating, the attitude to this fiasco would be a whole-lot different!

Quango or my childhood club? :thinking about:

You have shown your simplistic viewpoint here. Overly simplistic.

You are saying that we should all support CCFC come what may, in whatever we do. No way - not with SISU in charge. I support the team but I do not support our disgusting actions off the field.

Adults are capable of making a distinction. I have no obligation to support SISU just because I support Coventry.

Love the team, hate the club.

 

[CJparker]

Says it all really, even opposition fans (Donny, who have been there done it) are on the 'enemies' side as well.

For me, it is only CCFC v ACL and many CCFC 'supporters' have essentially deserted the club they 'support', all because of an all-consuming hatred of SISU, and I could almost guarantee had it not been SISU negotiating, the attitude to this fiasco would be a whole-lot different!

Quango or my childhood club? :thinking about:

It's also pretty childish to lash out at anyone in anger, just because they won't let you have your own way. "Council not giving us a ground for free??? They are raping the club!!" Or not.

 

[Grendel]

Not it isn't Torch - are you too stupid to read and understand? I don't support CCFC above and beyond everything else, not if that involves supporting immoral actions and unreasonable demands. You are making a leap of logic where every view that doesn't support our objectives wants to see us fold.

I am happy to risk it, yes. But it won't happen - I have explained multiple times why we will not go out of business, just as no other league club has for 20 years. The far bigger risk is leaving your friends SISU in charge.

Incorrect as usual

 

[cloughie]

He won't get your sycophantic messages of support - his connection is broken. It must be -- he has not answered my questions. Rest assured though as soon as his ACL friends power him up again the questions will resurface -- there will be no let up.

And what wonderful favour would I be trying to gain ..............yet more nonfactual rubbish spouted by you

At times you are troll like

 

[sky blue john]

I don't own a care home. At least you admit to your profession.

I can also arrange for a nurse to come in and wipe the dribble from your mouth !!!
I would do anything to help the poor unfortunate of our society and you obviously have special needs !!!

 

[CJparker]

Incorrect as usual

Oh I missed that, who went out of business?

 

[CJparker]

And what wonderful favour would I be trying to gain ..............yet more nonfactual rubbish spouted by you

At times you are troll like

Don't worry, in Grendel land SISU is the only big white horse in town - I can only think that this delusion is what has convinced him that all attempts to dislodge SISU are part of fans' desire to see their club go under - laughable I know, but his posts bear it out.

I wonder what Grendel thinks about the Kennedy assassination. ACL from behind the grassy knoll?

 

[oakey]

Question for SBTaylor, Grendel et al:
If ACL ended up owning ccfc outright would you switch sides and applaud our new owners and back them to the hilt?