ACL isn't letting this drop (4 Viewers)

[oakey]

Let me try and be civil about this and not use emotive "feck-wit" comments which are uncalled for and inurbane.

What I do not understand is you and those few that share your views is how you so quickly and easily forget how come ACL even exists, and why it is 50% council owned.
Have you really already forgotten how Richardson, Micginnity and the other prior owners over the last two or three decades had driven the club to the very edge of financial ruin, had sold off and somehow managed to make disappear the proceeds of selling Highfield Road, had come up with a crazy moving-pitch, moving-roof giant of a stadium to replace it that continuously got downsized as the money ran out until eventually they had no money at all to build the stadium and were homeless and close to going out of existence? Do you remember that the council and the charity came in and saved the club, built the stadium and let us play in it for the absolute minimum cost they could afford to service the debt that they had taken up on behalf of our club. Have you already forgotten all of this in so short a time that you perceive ACL as a completely unrelated third party?

I and many others do not feel a "sense of loyalty" towards ACL, but perhaps there is a justifiable sense of gratitude towards ACL, Higgs and the council for saving our sorry arses when we are at rock bottom, and we don't like to see the kind of "thanks" that SISU/Fisher and fans who think like you give to them.
From our side of the equation, we cannot fathom how you can stand there and see the people who saved our club from the dreadful actions of the prior owners be abused and cheated by a hedge fund.
From our side, we cannot see how you could possibly support a lying and cheating hedge fund over the people who saved our club.
That you can even think of supporting SISU/Fisher over the people who have helped save our club is beyond the ken of many of us.

Brilliant post. Couldn't agree more.

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

He has said categorically that the club would not have gone into administration in that scenario.

You'd have to ask why McGinnity said otherwise if so.

And why Higgs, Price, Robinson, Elliott, Hover let him say so.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Anyone willing to support SISU (I don't class SISU as CCFC) is a fuck-wit

Anyone supporting ACL isn't supporting CCFC..

 

[procdoc]

Anyone supporting ACL isn't supporting CCFC..

At least ACL have a stadium

 

[theferret]

Brilliant post. Couldn't agree more.

What, even though it is all complete fantasy?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

At least ACL have a stadium

Good for them useless if they don't have a Football Club filling it..

 

[italiahorse]

SISU have won and they will be here this season. Lets get over it.
ACL need to come to the table now and ask to talk to SISU. SISU need to take that call.
ACL need to negotiate a compromise with Compass and SISU need to be part of it. SISU need to have full rights in 5 years.
SISU need to offer a fair rent, dependant on which League we are in. ACL still just need to break even this season on football as per their offer.

 

[oakey]

One of the few things CCFC have in their favour is access to a top notch stadium in the city to which the club belongs. No they don't own it but they have to see sense and do a deal to play in it as owners or tenants. The rest is waffle.
ACL have to be dealt with whether we like it or not.
The bottom line is, whoever is right or wrong we have to stay in Coventry or see the club fade to obscurity.
Can we please stop arguing about who is to blame, who has won, who said what and where we will play for the next 3 years.
SISU owe the fans, now. Do a fair deal with ACL or sell to someone who will.
For those that have a grudge against ACL, try imagine it is Tesco. Take the bias out of it and see it as business. Tesco would owe the club nothing. ACL owe the club nothing. So stop calling on people to pressurise ACL or CCC.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Fair way forward would be for board members of acl to go onto Ccfc board and vice versa.

Ccfc continue paying rent, but receive any profits acl make (minus any investment in infrastructure deemed necessary by the council).

Both the club and acl then have a vested interest in making each other successful.

 

[theferret]

One of the few things CCFC have in their favour is access to a top notch stadium in the city to which the club belongs. No they don't own it but they have to see sense and do a deal to play in it as owners or tenants. The rest is waffle.
ACL have to be dealt with whether we likely or not.
The bottom line is, whoever is right or wrong we have to stay in Coventry or see the club fade to obscurity.
Can we please stop arguing about who is to blame, who has won, who said what and where we will play for the next 3 years.
SISU owe the fans, now. Do a fair deal with ACL or sell to someone who will.
For those that have a grudge against ACL, try imagine it is Tesco. Take the bias out of it and see it as business. Tesco would owe the club nothing. ACL owe the club nothing. So stop calling on people to pressurise ACL or CCC.

That's a perfectly reasonable position. We may disagree on the details and history of it, but clearly there needs to be a deal done. Both sides need to talk, and that was my original point. The suggestion ACL should 'not let this drop' and pursue the legal avenues open to them is possibly the worst thing they could do for the fans because it would guarantee we will not be playing in Coventry next season.

 

[James Smith]

You're wasting your breath. No matter how matter times they are told they don't get it.

All the council ever did was secure a bank loan to make up a funding shortfall for the building of a facility where the vast majority of funding was already in place.

Not only that, GR has gone on record to say they already had plans to buy back HR had the arena project collapsed. He has said categorically that the club would not have gone into administration in that scenario. Clearly the club over-egged their woes at the time to ensure it went through, there was a sense that he had gone so far that it needed to be followed through, and that the club needed the fresh start. A big mistake on behalf of the club.

So they didn't 'save the club', they didn't 'build the stadium', in fact they contributed next to nothing to get it built, and yet people still go on as if we owe them this massive debt of gratitude. I mean, a £130 million facility with all the economic benefits it brings at a cost to them of £2 million and people feel sorry for them?

I thought, and nice of GR to mention it, that the clause to buy back HR should the Ricoh not have happened was actually put in at the request of Sir Higgs who didn't want to see us groundsharing and essentially homeless :facepalm:. Wonder what he'd make of this current situation.

I agree with ACL being part of CCFC just not with SISU or any holding company / Cayman Islands company / Lichtenstein company / other tax haven etc. owned or affiliated with SISU as owners of CCFC.

 

[Buster]

SISU have won and they will be here this season. Lets get over it.
ACL need to come to the table now and ask to talk to SISU. SISU need to take that call.
ACL need to negotiate a compromise with Compass and SISU need to be part of it. SISU need to have full rights in 5 years.
SISU need to offer a fair rent, dependant on which League we are in. ACL still just need to break even this season on football as per their offer.

If sisu win ,ccfc lose
Ccfc need to own the stadium to fund the progress of the club
Sisu will not reinvest as much money as needed they will bleed the club dodging money about in their usual way
Once they have their hands on the Ricoh we are knackered
They had a chance when we were in the championship to invest and they cut time after time
Under sisu it will be a long slow time treading water but their alright they own the stadium

 

[theferret]

I thought, and nice of GR to mention it, that the clause to buy back HR should the Ricoh not have happened was actually put in at the request of Sir Higgs who didn't want to see us groundsharing and essentially homeless :facepalm:. Wonder what he'd make of this current situation.

Indeed I think Higgs was instrumental in that. Actually, I feel a lot more gratitude and loyalty to them then I do the council.

Ultimately, the council spent almost nothing and came out of it with total ownership of the freehold of a £130 million facility and a 50% stake in the management company. They have done very well out of it, surely that is undeniable? I guess others will disagree though.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Indeed I think Higgs was instrumental in that. Actually, I feel a lot more gratitude and loyalty to them then I do the council.

Ultimately, the council spent almost nothing and came out of it with total ownership of the freehold of a £130 million facility and a 50% stake in the management company. They have done very well out of it, surely that is undeniable? I guess others will disagree though.

Shouldn't the council be congratulated on the investment they got on taxpayers money?

That is their job after all.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Shouldn't the council be congratulated on the investment they got on taxpayers money?

That is their job after all.

I know, it's almost like the actions of a rapacious hedge-fund.

 

[RPHunt]

Shouldn't the council be congratulated on the investment they got on taxpayers money?

That is their job after all.

What, give the council some credit? That doesn't fit the agenda at all

 

[bigfatronssba]

I know, it's almost like the actions of a rapacious hedge-fund.

But no one was worse off from the council building the stadium.

 

[theferret]

Shouldn't the council be congratulated on the investment they got on taxpayers money?

That is their job after all.

Someone with no affiliation to or emotional investment in the football club might say exactly that.

What we should not do is perpetuate these myths that they 'bailed us out', 'built the stadium' and more importantly they are somehow hard done by.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Someone with no affiliation to or emotional investment in the football club might say exactly that.

What we should not do is perpetuate these myths that they 'bailed us out', 'built the stadium' and more importantly they are somehow hard done by.

Well the council did build the stadium, that's an indisputable fact.

Also the highs charity bailed the club out in 2003. 24 hours away from admin.

 

[theferret]

What, give the council some credit? That doesn't fit the agenda at all

Give then credit for a commercial arrangement that was to their benefit, while at the same time detrimental to the football club?

If you want.

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Give then credit for a commercial arrangement that was to their benefit, while at the same time detrimental to the football club?

If you want.

Answer me this then;

What would our club, broke and homeless, have done if the council and Higgs had not stepped in, formed ACL and built the Ricoh? Would you have preferred that scenario?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Well the council did build the stadium, that's an indisputable fact.

Also the highs charity bailed the club out in 2003. 24 hours away from admin.

It doesn't matter how many times you say the council did this and the council did that, in actual fact ACL filed for Administration against CCFC and it turned out badly for them, serves them right, now we must hope that SISU's plans to move us away are false and posturing..

 

[bigfatronssba]

Give then credit for a commercial arrangement that was to their benefit, while at the same time detrimental to the football club?

If you want.

Your mixing up the rent agreement with the building of the stadium.

The council building the stadium was beneficial to the club, not detrimental.

 

[theferret]

Well the council did build the stadium, that's an indisputable fact.

Also the highs charity bailed the club out in 2003. 24 hours away from admin.

Built the stadium in the sense that they financed it. Which they didn't. So yes, they 'built' it using other people's money and then took ownership of it. What a result that was for them.

 

[bigfatronssba]

It doesn't matter how many times you say the council did this and the council did that, in actual fact ACL filed for Administration against CCFC and it turned out badly for them, serves them right, now we must hope that SISU's plans to move us away are false and posturing..

As we are talking about the actual construction of the stadium your point is irrelevant.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

According to CWR, ACL has not yet given up. I understand they are contacting the Football League and taking advice.

We shouldn't give up either.

Any ideas what ACL might now do ?

Personally, I haven't a clue what ACL might do. However, I don't think for one moment ACL will want "the bowl" which is the pitch and stands to become a white elephant. ACL does need an income from a football club as well.

I believe it would now be in ACL's best interests to tell the Football League that they are willing to allow CCFC Ltd to continue playing at the Ricoh and re-enter fresh negotiations as to the long - term. It could well be that SISU or Otium might have a more saleable company once this has been achieved.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Built the stadium in the sense that they financed it. Which they didn't. So yes, they 'built' it using other people's money and then took ownership of it. What a result that was for them.

As I'm sure your aware the money came from tesco.

They got their store, council got their ground. What's the great scandal about that?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

As we are talking about the actual construction of the stadium your point is irrelevant.

But I am not.. This whole thread is just a sympathy for ACL.. Need to get real!

 

[theferret]

Your mixing up the rent agreement with the building of the stadium.

The council building the stadium was beneficial to the club, not detrimental.

No I'm not, on the contrary. I'm talking about the fact they managed to wrestle control of a £130 million project for next to nothing. Do you dispute that this commercial arrangement was not of benefit to them?

 

[bigfatronssba]

But I am not.. This whole thread is just a sympathy for ACL.. Need to get real!

I'm not talking about acl, I was talking about the council.

 

[bigfatronssba]

No I'm not, on the contrary. I'm talking about the fact they managed to wrestle control of a £130 million project for next to nothing. Do you dispute that this commercial arrangement was not of benefit to them?

Of course I don't, what is wrong with the council doing that anyway? It wasn't detrimental to Ccfc, and it saved the project.

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

It doesn't matter how many times you say the council did this and the council did that, in actual fact ACL filed for Administration against CCFC and it turned out badly for them, serves them right, now we must hope that SISU's plans to move us away are false and posturing..

Good grief, when will this stop?
It was SISU, using the voice of Fisher, who stated publically, loudly and in the national press that CCFC had no choice but to go into liquidation. This is indisputable fact. It does not matter whether this was meant as a bluff or if he meant it as an absolute truth. Fisher said this loudly and repeatedly.

As directors of a limited company registered in the United Kingdom and subject to the laws in said jurisdiction, the directors of ACL HAD NO OPTION UNDER THE LAW BUT TO FILE FOR ADMINISTRATION.
Any other action would have been deemed as negligent under the laws of the land.

SISU/Fisher precipitated this by publicly declaring that they had no choice but to liquidate the company. ACL reacted as they had to under the law, and it was SISU ITSELF that pre-empted ACL and put us into liquidation, so will you please stop with this total bullshit that it was ACL that caused the administration.

 

[theferret]

As I'm sure your aware the money came from tesco.

They got their store, council got their ground. What's the great scandal about that?

A good chunk of it came from Tesco, a deal that was brokered by the football club via BR.

There were other funding sources too, like naming rights. Ricoh were paying to have their name stuck to the wall of a football stadium, unless you think they would have parted with millions to name a two times a year concert venue?

Scandal? Who said anything about scandal? I am simply saying it was a very good deal for them (and it was), and that all this sympathy for them is misplaced.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Good grief, when will this stop?
It was SISU, using the voice of Fisher, who stated publically, loudly and in the national press that CCFC had no choice but to go into liquidation. This is indisputable fact. It does not matter whether this was meant as a bluff or if he meant it as an absolute truth. Fisher said this loudly and repeatedly.

As directors of a limited company registered in the United Kingdom and subject to the laws in said jurisdiction, the directors of ACL HAD NO OPTION UNDER THE LAW BUT TO FILE FOR ADMINISTRATION.
Any other action would have been deemed as negligent under the laws of the land.

SISU/Fisher precipitated this by publicly declaring that they had no choice but to liquidate the company. ACL reacted as they had to under the law, and it was SISU ITSELF that pre-empted ACL and put us into liquidation, so will you please stop with this total bullshit that it was ACL that caused the administration.

I will invest in some hole-containing cheese in your honour.

 

[bigfatronssba]

A good chunk of it came from Tesco, a deal that was brokered by the football club via BR.

There were other funding sources too, like naming rights. Ricoh were paying to have their name stuck to the wall of a football stadium, unless you think they would have parted with millions to name a two times a year concert venue?

Scandal? Who said anything about scandal? I am simply saying it was a very good deal for them (and it was), and that all this sympathy for them is misplaced.

Yes I agree it was a good deal, and had the club been properly run then we would have been the beneficiaries.

My whole point was you can apportion blame on the rent agreement if you want, but the council taking control of the construction of the ground had no detrimental effect on Ccfc.