Acl (1 Viewer)

[Sub]

Didn't SISU pay them?

No idea thats why i asked lol:thinking about:
:thinking about::thinking about::thinking about::thinking about:

 

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[Godiva]

ACL made an operating profit of £255,000, but an overall net loss of £392,299
That sounds like an awful lot of interest and tax ?

Interest, depreciation/amortization, one-off events (and tax).

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

So her lying got a better deal for the Ricoh? Surely before Wasps bought it they would have seen the books to see what she was saying didn't add up?

Do you not think many more people could have understood the reason to sell to Wasps if she wasn't giving it the spin at the same time? If she had said "Look, we are fucked here, we have to do something and quick" then surely more people would understand? Rather than bullshitting about it?

Be careful about using words like 'lying' until you know the detail of the accounts

 

[italiahorse]

Ha ha ha ha - the 250 year lease massively increased the value.

The accounts were for last year :claping hands:

 

[Kingokings204]

Didn't SISU pay them?

Hopefully

 

[Nick]

Be careful about using words like 'lying' until you know the detail of the accounts

True, I forgot that it isn't just SISU who do all the threatening to the fans!

 

[Kingokings204]

By selling to wasps though couldn't you argue this got ccfc a fantastic rental deal of around 100K a year so actually selling ACL may be in ccfc interest for now. He don't have the money to buy ACL so 100k rent for now allows to continue as a football club and play at the Ricoh in Coventry rather than die in Northampton? I know which one I prefer.

 

[Nick]

Didn't that deal happen before Wasps bought it?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

True, I forgot that it isn't just SISU who do all the threatening to the fans!

I'm just telling you your statement could be deemed libellous; not starting any cock-measuring contest between SISU-ACL-CCC-Higgs-whoever

 

[Noggin]

So her lying got a better deal for the Ricoh? Surely before Wasps bought it they would have seen the books?

Do you not think many more people could have understood the reason to sell to Wasps if she wasn't giving it the spin at the same time? If she had said "Look, we are fucked here, we have to do something and quick" then surely more people would understand? Rather than bullshitting about it?

no her lying didn't get a better deal for the Ricoh, nore am I suggesting it did, we should forget the analogy because you arn't understanding me and I've confused things by trying to give an example where sisu can lie and I'm not angry about it, I'm not suggesting this means her lie increased the ricohs sale price.

"Do you not think many more people could have understood the reason to sell to Wasps if she wasn't giving it the spin at the same time? If she had said "Look, we are fucked here, we have to do something and quick" then surely more people would understand? Rather than bullshitting about it?"

yes, I would prefer honesty as I've already said though I disagree that they were fucked on these numbers.

 

[Godiva]

What do you know of the accounts then Grendel? Any extraordinary write-offs? If they took any in this one year, it would hit P&L whilst still being able to break even on a trading basis. Couldn't they?

Or don't you know, have half the story and are jumping on this prematurely; just as you did in the Judicial Review when you heralded 'evidence' of the 'smoking gun', only to latterly realise it was the rather myopic opening statement of SISU's QC?

Extraordinary events doesn't impact on result of operations - which is down to a meagre quarter of a million. ACL cannot possibly have been cash-flow positive from operation, but mainly because they received extra cash when the council bailed them out. Didn't they get some $400t extra loan plus £1m for Car Park C?

If the few figures reported tells us anything it's that ACL were a liability to the council (and Higgs) - they had to sell. Sadly they chose not to sell to the club.

 

[Grendel]

The accounts were for last year :claping hands:

The point I am alluding to is that the value of the shares were increased substantially by the offering of a 250 year lease.

The point I making is in this context the offer of £2 million for half share in a failing business suddenly seems more than reasonable.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Extraordinary events doesn't impact on result of operations - which is down to a meagre quarter of a million. ACL cannot possibly have been cash-flow positive from operation, but mainly because they received extra cash when the council bailed them out. Didn't they get some $400t extra loan plus £1m for Car Park C?

If the few figures reported tells us anything it's that ACL were a liability to the council (and Higgs) - they had to sell. Sadly they chose not to sell to the club.

The club never candidly tried to buy. I don't know the nuances of the accounts yet, so won't argue with you on the former. But on the underlined bit I will

 

[chiefdave]

So it seems the loan was actually a bail out despite the council categorically stating it wasn't and ACL was in fact losing money despite the council categorically, and repeatedly, stating everything was fantastic!

 

[Godiva]

So it seems the loan was actually a bail out despite the council categorically stating it wasn't and ACL was in fact losing money despite the council categorically, and repeatedly, stating everything was fantastic!

Exactly, and ...

From the notes quoted in the CT:

They read: “The established business, as has been proven over the past eighteen months, can sustain the loss of a sports franchise but now with a four year agreement with CCFC and Wasps permanently relocating to Coventry the future of regular sporting activity at the venue is secured.”

Did the club come back begging or did CCC/ACL need them back to finalize the deal with Wasps?

 

[skybluetony176]

Didn't SISU pay them?

Only CCC's IIRC. Pretty sure the judge said ACL were not named as a defendent in the JR so were liable for their own costs as they chose to have representation there. Or something lke that.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

So it seems the loan was actually a bail out despite the council categorically stating it wasn't and ACL was in fact losing money despite the council categorically, and repeatedly, stating everything was fantastic!

Bail out; why? The losses weren't significant compared to the strength of the balance sheet; and the cash position was stronger, wasn't it?

 

[italiahorse]

SISU drove down the value and the incomes by taking the club away.
The Council would want them back so would make out that ACL can manage until they came to their senses.
Wasps would do due diligence so would know about last years figures.
Wasps deal needed to be done as the losses would continue and value would drop.
Sisu would then not even deal at Wasps price for ACL.

 

[Godiva]

Bail out; why? The losses weren't significant compared to the strength of the balance sheet; and the cash position was stronger, wasn't it?

Why was the cash position stronger?
(Read the thread.)

 

[Noggin]

The point I making is in this context the offer of £2 million for half share in a failing business suddenly seems more than reasonable.

Thats the same point I was making (though I'm not sure that it was failing) that you were suggesting was embarrassing excuse making for the council.

The worse acl were doing the more understandable the sale of the ricoh was, this is a massively important thing and completely dwarfs any one comment someone made, so the fact acl lost money makes the council look much better than if acl were making a good profit as lucas suggested.

 

[Godiva]

Thats the same point I was making (though I'm not sure that it was failing) that you were suggesting was embarrassing excuse making for the council.

The worse acl were doing the more understandable the sale of the ricoh was, this is a massively important thing and completely dwarfs any one comment someone made, so the fact acl lost money makes the council look much better than if acl were making a good profit as lucas suggested.

They had to sell, yes.
But did they have to sell to Wasps or could they have made the same deal with the club?

 

[Kingokings204]

Didn't that deal happen before Wasps bought it?

Yes but I think we can all agree ccfc coming back helped wasps decision to buy the Ricoh. It's just more valuable with ccfc there.

If ccfc can benefit from a low rental deal which is it then I take this over dying in Northampton Any day.

 

[Kingokings204]

They had to sell, yes.
But did they have to sell to Wasps or could they have made the same deal with the club?

Wasn't the same deal offered to the club. That David conn bloke confirmed it and the club and TF didn't want to take on the debt. Sure that was confirmed.

 

[skybluetony176]

What do you know of the accounts then Grendel? Any extraordinary write-offs? If they took any in this one year, it would hit P&L whilst still being able to break even on a trading basis. Couldn't they?

Or don't you know, have half the story and are jumping on this prematurely; just as you did in the Judicial Review when you heralded 'evidence' of the 'smoking gun', only to latterly realise it was the rather myopic opening statement of SISU's QC?

That was a bluff by Grendull. He later confirmed that SISU deliberately lost the JR to continue distressing ACL. I think they were going to appeal if they did actually win

 

[Godiva]

Wasn't the same deal offered to the club. That David conn bloke confirmed it and the club and TF didn't want to take on the debt. Sure that was confirmed.

Think you are referring to the club being 'offered' to bid for Higgs shares - not the entire deal Wasps got?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Why was the cash position stronger?
(Read the thread.)

Sorry; trying to do too many things here at once. I'm referring to the bit: 'However, the accounts show net cash inflow has increased substantially from £81,584 to £828,522'

 

[skybluetony176]

They had to sell, yes.
But did they have to sell to Wasps or could they have made the same deal with the club?

Do you really think that they could have done the same deal with SISU too completion or would SISU have kept trying to renegotiate the terms at the last moment, back tracking, adding in conditions, putting money down and pay the rest over a gazillion years etc. and mess everyone around until the deal collapsed only for Wasps to come back on he scene and secure a better deal than they had previously negotiated?

 

[Grendel]

That was a bluff by Grendull. He later confirmed that SISU deliberately lost the JR to continue distressing ACL. I think they were going to appeal if they did actually win

The strategy worked tony. It hugely devalued the company to a pathetic amount and yes they would have carried on until bankruptcy occurred.

What sisu hadn't reckoned on was a hedge fund with even less morals than themselves and a council that cared nothing for local community sport (though the history if this catastrophic council should have given them some insight into that aspect).

 

[Nick]

Wasn't the same deal offered to the club. That David conn bloke confirmed it and the club and TF didn't want to take on the debt. Sure that was confirmed.

No it wasn't offered, they were invited to bid on Wasps 50% knowing full well it wasn't possible.

 

[Grendel]

Sorry; trying to do too many things here at once. I'm referring to the bit: 'However, the accounts show net cash inflow has increased substantially from £81,584 to £828,522'

I bet it has - the council "purchased C Park C" off the councils quango - I wonder why!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think there is going to be some excited responses from the normal people however I think this is completely misplaced.

I think this makes the council look much better not worse. Had ACL been very profitable then the sale to Wasps would have been alot harder to Justify. It does make it extremely likely that Ann Lucas was lying, however I can completely understand the desire to lie about your financial health when someone is trying to take advantage of your lack of financial health with damage they are causing.

The council can honestly say they've done what they felt was best for the city of Coventry and it's hard to see that they are wrong at this point in time as much as it absolutely sucks as a Coventry city fan. Had Ann Lucus been actually telling the truth I'd have been much much more angry with the council.

They could have offered the same deal to the football club...

 

[Godiva]

Sorry; trying to do too many things here at once. I'm referring to the bit: 'However, the accounts show net cash inflow has increased substantially from £81,584 to £828,522'

THis was actually a response to you earlier in the thread:

Extraordinary events doesn't impact on result of operations - which is down to a meagre quarter of a million. ACL cannot possibly have been cash-flow positive from operation, but mainly because they received extra cash when the council bailed them out. Didn't they get some $400t extra loan plus £1m for Car Park C?

If the few figures reported tells us anything it's that ACL were a liability to the council (and Higgs) - they had to sell. Sadly they chose not to sell to the club.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

No it wasn't offered, they were invited to bid on Wasps 50% knowing full well it wasn't possible.

Why wasn't it possible though?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

THis was actually a response to you earlier in the thread:

Sorry - that looked more like a question than a statement of fact

 

[italiahorse]

So it seems the loan was actually a bail out despite the council categorically stating it wasn't and ACL was in fact losing money despite the council categorically, and repeatedly, stating everything was fantastic!

Did they actually say everything was fantastic