stupot07
Well-Known Member
And so is saying that another more experienced manager would do better with our squad.
Andy Thorn (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Westchester76
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And so is saying that another more experienced manager would do better with our squad.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Your favourite subject
TalkSkyBlue
New Member
Oh give it a rest...
Are you seriously suggesting that AT has not shown himself to we "woefully inept tactically, pig-headed, [more recently] talked a lot of crap".
As for players working for him and his motivational skills - urmmm he's done a great job motivating Eastwood, has fallen out with Deegan, publicly slammed Bigi, made statements about needing "men" and apparently his 10 year old son having the ability to put away chances.
And then, bringing 3 youth players in to the team and managed them well: when the squad was down to the bare bones. he had no choice and had to promote youth team players - can he really be given credit for something that was force on this! His handling of Big shows on the contrary that he has not managed the young players very well.
On the playing side the facts are that he is managing a team that is bottom of the table. Results speak for themselves and that's down to AT.
Feel sorry for the guy because he is doing his best. But he's not a manager and not a coach. He's simply doing the best of a bad job.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
It's called OPINION KD: or isn't anyone else allowed one?
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
No. I gave an example which disproved the claim. The statement was made: Survival is all that matters and I think experienced managers are more likely to succeed. I chose Paul Jewell because he's taken a squad with better resources into the same place as we are. I could have chosen Steve McClaren and Steve Cotterill - both experienced managers who have taken Forest to the same place. Doncaster have been steered into their current position this season by the much-cherished and vastly experienced Sean O'Driscoll and Dean Saunders. Milwall down there with Kenny Jackett, who's been a manager since 1996....
In fact, the two clubs who appear to be in disarray and free-fall at the moment - Ipswich and Notts Forest - have managers with 28 years' accumulated experience between them. As such, yes, I refute the point of view made. And to chose one of the two managers who appear to clearly articulate why I hold the belief isn't something I chose to suit my intention, thanks; more to prove the point
ajsccfc
Well-Known Member
Ok then: Ian Holloway. There's an example of a manager with experience who did well with an underfunded club who at the time were tipped for League One. Is that your claim disproved or have I just been very selective also?
He said he thinks experienced managers are more likely to succeed, he didn't say one definitely would.
He said he thinks experienced managers are more likely to succeed, he didn't say one definitely would.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
I just don't like sweeping generalisations being used to prove a point. Experienced managers aren't always likely to succeed. I think Holloway's a decent manager, sure.
Look at the Premier League; McCarthy with bags of experience in the relegation zone, Warnock lost his job at QPR; but Brendan Rogers, who only had one year at Watford and one year at Reading doing wonderful things at Swansea. Rogers, of course, ahead of this time only operating at youth team level....
My point being, all teams, in different positions need to looked at uniquely and discussed on their own merits
davebart
Active Member
It is tempting to use specific examples but one or two instances do not make a rule. By and large success has been demonstrated to be achieved if you give ANY manager time. Something very rarely afforded in these instant results times.
Something else which is historically evident is that when a caretaker manager is brought in near the end of a season it results in improved performances. Often, and CCFC have numerous examples of this, that success is not repeated when the manager is subsequently appointed full time. I think this should be attributed to the fact that the team is in fact shit and continues to be shit and the manager is not given the opportunity to address that.
Where does Thorn fit in this? Well personally I would rather have him than Adams, Coleman or Boothroyd -all experienced managers whose only achievement was to avoid relegation with better players.
Something else which is historically evident is that when a caretaker manager is brought in near the end of a season it results in improved performances. Often, and CCFC have numerous examples of this, that success is not repeated when the manager is subsequently appointed full time. I think this should be attributed to the fact that the team is in fact shit and continues to be shit and the manager is not given the opportunity to address that.
Where does Thorn fit in this? Well personally I would rather have him than Adams, Coleman or Boothroyd -all experienced managers whose only achievement was to avoid relegation with better players.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Although Adams - with over 10 years experience DB - didn't manage so at Sheffield United last season, dear chap 
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No I am always right. Seriously though you in your posts do offer you opinion backed up by facts. Some people do say things that are classed as fact with no shred of evidence and it's that that I find somewhat irritating.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
To be fair to Thorn if he does pull off an escape with rookie players, no budget, lost players and no experience then its nothing short of a miracle and he would deserve all the acolades. Unfortunately I think its beyond his and our reach although to even be competing and have a chance still after where we were a few weeks back is a good feeling. 13 points from 23 games is now 22 from 27 and there is a glimmer of hope.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Although Adams - with over 10 years experience DB - didn't manage so at Sheffield United last season, dear chap
I though you didn't like sweeping generalizations to prove a point. One statistical fact is Adams was the best manager we had in this league and would probably have been ok if his paranoid behaviour hadn't surfaced.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Depends which statistics you want. We had 63 points best return under Adams and have finished in this league with 65 & 66. We did finish 8th under him which is our highest finish, but miles from the play-offs and won games at the end when we couldn't trouble any higher. Its all about interpretation.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
8th but still 12 points from 6th. We have finished 11th and only 9 points from the play-offs.
Difficult to say if Adams would have done well. He certainly hadn't proved anything outstanding here (imo) and not achieved anything since either. You may be right of course and we will never know - impossible to prove.
Difficult to say if Adams would have done well. He certainly hadn't proved anything outstanding here (imo) and not achieved anything since either. You may be right of course and we will never know - impossible to prove.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Not by a long shot. His win ratio was roughly 30% same as Coleman, Reid, Boothroyd, etc. The best three were undisputably Nillsson, Black and Dowie and only Dowie did that over more than 20 games.
Sorry, but you did just call someone out for stating things as facts without evidence.
skyblue1523
New Member
i think AT hands have been tied.but fans keep going on about the 3 youth players i remember when sir alex picked a load of kids 1 season they said they would fail they only went on to win the league so it is down to the manger he picks the team.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Interestingly enough, the worst record since around 1930 was Big Ron's of 25%, when he had pretty much free reign over who to sign under shady Bryan. Dowie's of 40% with the budgets he was working with is hardly poor either; harshly judged by most Cov fans I'd say.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
That 8th place finish is deceiving though. We were garbage then shot up at the end to finish well off the playoffs but top of the middle pile.
It's not like we were ever seriously challenging that season.
I think Dowie is the most underrated CCFC manager since we came down. The one thing I really don't like Ranson for was sacking him for non-footballing reasons.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
His replacement kept us up by a lick of paint. I don't question that Coleman had players sold from under him, but I think it's a bit convenient for these ex-managers to be bashing SISU/past chairmen for some popularity points to cover up their own glaring faults in charge.
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
A couple of weeks before one of our biggest games for years as well the Cup game at home to West Brom, and about a week after one of the best attacking performances(the 4-0) against Barnsley that we'd had for years, and certainly not since.
WillieStanley
New Member
I could be wrong, but I'm sure Dowie brought in about seven or eight players, including Leon Best. I think he spent a bit of money. I agreed with a lot of what he did at the club, from mucking in during training, to his promotion and full use of sports science. Flowers was a decent number two as well. He was certainly way ahead of MA.
It's hard to judge what he did afterwards too, as he went on to the managers graveyard of QPR afterwards and then into punditry. I think it was a mistake to let him go.
I was never a fan of Adams and seem to remember that it was Dennis Wise who dragged us by the scruff of the neck to that league position
It's hard to judge what he did afterwards too, as he went on to the managers graveyard of QPR afterwards and then into punditry. I think it was a mistake to let him go.
I was never a fan of Adams and seem to remember that it was Dennis Wise who dragged us by the scruff of the neck to that league position
WillieStanley
New Member
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Fox and Dann were brought in while he was in charge...though how much say he had in those signings is up for debate! The only player we forked out for was Best, and that was a compensation fee which we negotiated down; if memory serves, we were under a transfer embargo for a few months at least.
ajsccfc
Well-Known Member
Of course, nothing can always be that predictable, but saying that an experienced manager is more likely to succeed than one without experience makes logical sense, it's not saying that it's a definite.
In a similar vein, it'd still make sense to suggest that a striker with Premier League experience is more likely to succeed than one coming in from a different league, even if Fernando Torres and Andy Carroll currently suggest otherwise.
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