eastwoodsdustman
Well-Known Member
oh the irony of Trump getting sucked in with fake news.:facepalm:
Anyone else watching the Oompha Loompa become president? (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Smith
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Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Some of the stuff you say shows a lack of understanding about multi culturalism
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
No, I have a complete understanding about it.
I just pick my words quite carefully.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
It was this statement
Germany, and you can include Sweden and France along with them, may not be 'a complete mess', but they are going down the toilet.
What facts are you referring to about these countries going down the toilet?
Germany, and you can include Sweden and France along with them, may not be 'a complete mess', but they are going down the toilet.
What facts are you referring to about these countries going down the toilet?
Just out of interest... I was in Berlin a couple of weeks ago and it was announced they have the most people in a full time job since the Wende, and I am in Munich now. Munich commuters spend 48 hours a year in rush hour traffic jams - the most in Germany.... reason being that the economy is growing so fast, the amount of people travelling to and from work is too much for the already good infrastructure. I can vouch for the traffic. If those are the problems... Germany is not going down the toilet...most crime figures are going down... it is not a mess - even if Fox and Friends and InfoWars - and therefore the US president - say that it is. Don't believe these clowns, they are trying to frighten you to justify future clampdowns on freedom...
Above reply @Earlsdon_Skyblue1 not Pete.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Sorry Mart, I politely disagree with you on this.
I'm not saying the economy isn't doing well, it's safety that is a concern. I don't need to read news be it The Independent or Breitbart to tell you that Europe is much unsafer. I've lived in Sweden, and travel to Germany a lot, not to mention holiday in France often. I don't get scare mongered easily (I would have voted remain
), but I genuinely do think things aren't as peaceful and fairytale as is being made out half the time.I'll be in Berlin in a few weeks, I hope you left me some beer!
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Course no probs
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Ok that's not quite 'going down the toilet'
It pisses me off that we take our relative safety for granted and talk about our pretty idyllic lives being affected but immigration.
You don't have to look to far back to realise it is pretty much paradise in Sweden, France and Germany.
Rwanda, Kosovo, the whole of the Middle East, Syria. South Sudan etc etc.
We should pursue all that makes for peace and while it's not as safe and there are some issues to resolve in Europe shutting our doors to those around the world who need us cannot be the moral answer
It pisses me off that we take our relative safety for granted and talk about our pretty idyllic lives being affected but immigration.
You don't have to look to far back to realise it is pretty much paradise in Sweden, France and Germany.
Rwanda, Kosovo, the whole of the Middle East, Syria. South Sudan etc etc.
We should pursue all that makes for peace and while it's not as safe and there are some issues to resolve in Europe shutting our doors to those around the world who need us cannot be the moral answer
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
What does that show chief?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Deaths per month from terrorism since 1970. Show that since 1970 there's been very little change overall and a drop in Western Europe. The figures simply don't stack up with the idea that we are more at threat now than we were in the past.
What has changed is we live in an era of the internet, social media and 24 hour news so we hear of things in the past we might have missed.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
So the top graph is all Europe?
I also think uk citizens of a certain age forget the Ira troubles in the 70's
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Yep, top is all of Europe, bottom is just Western Europe. The grey one you can just about see in the background of the bottom one is Eastern Europe.
Figures are from the Global Terrorism Database but the graphics are from The Washington Post. Couple of interesting articles from them:
45 years of terrorist attacks in Europe, visualized
How terrorism in the West compares to terrorism everywhere else
Sorry Mart, I politely disagree with you on this.
I'm not saying the economy isn't doing well, it's safety that is a concern. I don't need to read news be it The Independent or Breitbart to tell you that Europe is much unsafer. I've lived in Sweden, and travel to Germany a lot, not to mention holiday in France often. I don't get scare mongered easily (I would have voted remain
I'll be in Berlin in a few weeks, I hope you left me some beer!
I am there from 08 - 12 March and am bringing my beer with me....;-)
We also have a much higher population. You would expect more deaths as we have more people.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
It seems that Germany isn't 'going down the toilet' after all...what a surprise.
Looks like we disagree on this one.
Looks like we disagree on this one.
Well all I can say is that my sales are going up here in Germany. Good news for me and certainly not going down the toilet... ( I am selling Irish products at the moment- will be interested to see what happens with my British products on events in the summer).
Gazolba
Well-Known Member
Why wouldn't Trump have contacts with one of the other major super powers? I see that as a positive thing, not negative. The war-mongering with Russia is solely to justify the vast sums spent on the military industrial complex. If they don't have enemies threatening them, why would they need to spend billions per year on useless fighter jets and aircraft carriers.
Gazolba
Well-Known Member
Well they couldn't remove Bill Clinton for having oral sex with a woman in the White House. I think Trump is safe.
Oral sex is hardly the same as Trump's muslim bans or one or two state solution for Israel ( lay back a bit on the settlements Bibi ), or describing NATO as outdated. I wish he would have oral sex in the Oval Office more often - it might relax him, which would make the future of the planet safer...
Contacts is one thing, your contacts hacking your opponents' emails to get dirt to throw at her is another. What is the pay-back to Putin for Russian help?
scubasteve
Well-Known Member
Was there any proof it was the Russians who hacked the DNC, or are you just joining everyone else right now and blame Russia for everything, in fact im joining its not sisu's fault city are in a mess, its Putin and Russia. wiki leaks have always maintained Russia isn't the leak, wasn't it rumour to a be a staff member of the DNC that conveniently got murdered in DC and should we not be more interested in what was in the leaks not that they got hacked, if they left themselves open to be hacked that's their fault.
And on the BAN, it wasn't a Muslim ban if you was Christian from these countries you was banned, the top 5 highest populations of Muslims countries were not on the banned list. and it was a 3 month temporary ban while they looked at vetting, similar to Obama's 6 month ban of Iranian nations in 2011, and the list trump worked off was also from the Obama administration as countries most likely to harbour terrorists. I suppose it doesn't help that the USA has been aiding and dropping 26,000 bombs per year under the Obama administration ( and he got a Nobel peace prize it that time).
And on the BAN, it wasn't a Muslim ban if you was Christian from these countries you was banned, the top 5 highest populations of Muslims countries were not on the banned list. and it was a 3 month temporary ban while they looked at vetting, similar to Obama's 6 month ban of Iranian nations in 2011, and the list trump worked off was also from the Obama administration as countries most likely to harbour terrorists. I suppose it doesn't help that the USA has been aiding and dropping 26,000 bombs per year under the Obama administration ( and he got a Nobel peace prize it that time).
Russia says it didn't hack and Assange says Russia wasn't his source. So that's it then?
Doesn't convince me at all.
The Obama list was of countries not able to check their citizens applying for Visas adequately. These countries are subjected to heavy vetting now - in particular Syria.
When is Trump going to tackle right wing homegrown terrorism or introduce some gun control to try and stop trigger happy lunatics from getting their hands on powerful weapons?
Banning people- other than so-called persecuted Christians - from countries whose citizens have not succeeded in killing people in the US, and have been involved in few attempts at terrorism, will not stop thousands of people dying from gun crime every year.
To claim that Trump is making America safe again by this ban is pure bullshit.
scubasteve
Well-Known Member
nope, and neither does the DNC and media saying it was Russia make it them, I would wait until there is proof before pointing fingers.
I didn't say the ban would make America safe, but these were his policies that got him elected and he is going though with them, if he is wrong he will be booted out in 4 years time. The 3 month ban was to analyse the current heavy vetting to make sure it was good enough, after this the point was to lift the ban. The reason was ban was put in by Obama in 2011 was because they foiled a plot of Iranian nationals in the USA so the vetting wasn't good enough at the time, surly trump being president should be able to have time to look at this just like Obama did in 2011?
im not sure what trump can do about gun control as its in the constitution to own a gun, I don't agree with gun ownership, but no one in the history of the united sates has ever changed this and doubt it ever will in the near future, democrat or especially republican.
I didn't say the ban would make America safe, but these were his policies that got him elected and he is going though with them, if he is wrong he will be booted out in 4 years time. The 3 month ban was to analyse the current heavy vetting to make sure it was good enough, after this the point was to lift the ban. The reason was ban was put in by Obama in 2011 was because they foiled a plot of Iranian nationals in the USA so the vetting wasn't good enough at the time, surly trump being president should be able to have time to look at this just like Obama did in 2011?
im not sure what trump can do about gun control as its in the constitution to own a gun, I don't agree with gun ownership, but no one in the history of the united sates has ever changed this and doubt it ever will in the near future, democrat or especially republican.
The FBI and Congress are investigating the alleged links to Russia. Trump's Chief of Staff has asked the FBI to say publicly that it doubts the links. The FBI has refused to do so. Plus it is using political intereference in an ongoing investigation which is not allowed. I don't think Trump's team is too concerned about that though.
Trump is now asking for evidence of the danger posed by these countries ( because the judge who rejected the ban said that none had been presented ) - up until now the intelligence community hadn't got any. The DHS thought that nationality wasn't the main point in assessing terrorism risk. Now they have been asked to make a case for a political decision. Actually that is more alarming than the occasional terrorist attack. The government, or rather a clique around Trump, is breaking conventions and amassing more influence on national security.
As regards Obama in 2011. There hasn't been the same report of terrorist plots this time. Just more crap excuses. Trump played the religion card in his campaign and he is obliged to feed his bigoted supporters with some actions.
As regards gun control. Trump has just relaxed gun controls on people with mental health problems ( that Obama had pushed through ). Great idea... :-( That will make America Great again...
Trump should look at things before he passes decrees or makes statements- he usually has to make a contradictory statement soon after making statements as only learns of the effects after he has opened his mouth or tweeted.
I am not in favour of letting Trump have any time for anything. The guy is completely incompetent and it is a disgrace that he won the electoral college, if not the election.
scubasteve
Well-Known Member
I get the feeling you don't like trump then........ but its called democracy and he was voted by the American people so he is the president and everyone has to accept that. but I think you are kidding yourself if you think Clinton was going to be any better, Obama was not the saint he is made out to be.
No, I don't like Trump and democracy functions better when the electorate are well informed- not blatantly misled and wound up by such cons as Pizzagate.
Yes both sides lied, but fact check showed that Trump beat Hillary overwhelming on bullshit and dirt.
Democracy may have chosen Trump, but not Miller and Bannon as advisers. Trump should have stayed with property dealing and reality shows. That is all that he knows. Unfortunately for the world he is now having to learn how to be a president and has chosen scum as advisers and some wrong people as secretaries in his cabinet.
Yes, Hillary was tainted and Obama not perfect, but Obama could hold a sensible conversation. Trump has trouble making a sensible tweet.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
It seems that Germany isn't 'going down the toilet' after all...what a surprise.
Germans told to stockpile food and water for civil defence
That was put out about a month or two ago.
Actually 6-7 months ago.
Bizzarely Russia practiced mass evacuations around the same time.
That was a modernisation of existing advice. Nothing new, and was posted 6 months ago.
I have twenty barrels of beer in my store room at all times, so I won't be dying of thirst should anything ever happen.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure you understand the functions of democracy. Yes he was elected and yes he is now president. That doesn't mean people should simply shut up and get on with it. It is the opposition's job (both elected officials and citizens) to constantly hold the current government to account. If the government is engaged in criminal activities ala Nixon then they will rightly be removed from office. This whole "you lost get over it" argument that is going round regarding Trump and Brexit shows the complete lack of understanding these newly politicised idiots have about basic democratic function.
scubasteve
Well-Known Member
Hold anyone to account if they get it wrong that is fine, but so far nothing has been done that is criminal. Doing everything possible to block any attempts to put policies in place that they were elected on, or blocking and slowing down putting staff into place, is not democratic. Same with brexit, how many time are they going to try and block, slow down the process and get a second referendum. I voted remain but I accept the democracy of this country as everyone else should, we open ourselves up to massive problems if we allow democracy to be overturned just because people don't like the result.