Grendel
Well-Known Member
And we sold £4m - at least some people in Barnsley appear to have a brain anyway
Barnsley on a madness (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter PUSB-We_are_going_up
- Start date
And we sold £4m - at least some people in Barnsley appear to have a brain anyway
Jamesimus
Well-Known Member
I'm certainly no expert on this, but *I think* what G is trying to point out is that the way your club is operating is not too dissimilar to a fair few other clubs and that just one relegation and a subsequent missing out on L1 promotion would leave you in a poor situation.
Relying on selling off assets, although good / helpful in the short term (re: us), is a risky strategy I guess.
I'm assuming the good bit of your accounts is the fact you're currently competing above the level that your player wages suggest you should be.
Barnsley
Well-Known Member
makes no difference, the club is recruiting quality young players that are regularly developed into better players and sold on for big profits, to balance the books and reinvest. It’s working perfectly even when relegated.
Jamesimus
Well-Known Member
I think you've missed the point on what I said.
I don't doubt that is what is currently occurring and no one is doubting that Barnsley are currently doing very well.
It's just that as a business strategy for being sustainable, it's risky and can backfire. It's also what a lot of other clubs are doing / trying to do.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
yep not too hard to understand
Barnsley
Well-Known Member
Obviously it’s risky, and other club’s are doing the same because it’s the only way to go, without running up massive debts, or outside investment, my point still stands though we’re running on the money the club generates and we’re doing well at it due to the right recruitment and coaching.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Depends how you see it. Are you selling off assets or are you making money by buying players and improving them, in which case they’re stock more than assets.
Jamesimus
Well-Known Member
Visions of a sustainable CCFC player supermarket. Players packaged in plastic, being put in trolleys wheeled out of the shop by probably the Norwich player recruitment person...
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
That’s the key difference to the business model. We take players in (either through direct recruitment or through the academy system), carry out a value-adding exercise and then hope to sell for a profit. The supplier is unreliable and can sometimes send you complete toffee, but for the most part in recent times the good outweighs the bad.
Barnsley
Well-Known Member
That’s the reason we try not to loan players if possible, so we have more saleable players, increasing the chances of getting a decent return. It’s all about percentages.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Nowhere am I saying they're lying. I'm saying you can report them differently and come up with very different outcomes. All would be transparent and above board but the reported values would be massively different.
Had a quick look through last set of accounts on Companies House (2019). Main points were loss of turnover from relegation from league distributions, largely offset by player sales and cash reserves. This will of course for the following season increase again as they got promoted. The likely realisable values of the players will have increased as well as they'll be playing in a higher division which although not reflected in the statements adds a bit more reassurance.
I noticed a share issue in the previous year as well adding £6m to the coffers (i.e. owners adding funds), which helped cover the losses.
I noticed all of the fixed assets are depreciated by S/L, which is quite rare - most are done by percentage of NBV to reflect the higher loss in value early on. Nothing wrong with doing it as they have but tends to result in a raised asset value on the balance sheet in the first few years after purchase. (Not including player value amortisation which is tended to be S/L over contract length and makes sense).
Also noticed the number of footballing staff fell by 15, probably either in the youth football or coaching side predominantly and wages dropped a fair bit as would be expected due to relegation. These will have likely increased again following promotion.
Transfer fee debtors increased significantly, again expected due to likely sales from relegation.
So from that it looks like Barnsley are doing a similar system to us, looking to invest in young players to sell on in order to survive. This is risky but in context of the industry it's in it's no riskier than anyone else. It's reliant on at least some of those young players progressing to be sold on and not suffering relegation (or at least relegation for a prolonged period) reducing those player values significantly. They suffered quite a drastic drop in cash reserves (which is far more worrying for the immediate future of a business than profitability or even balance sheet value) and if they hadn't got promoted it would've put significant strain on them had they relied on it for a second year, esp as cash was boosted by £6m via a share issue the previous year so without that their cash reserves would've been totally wiped out.
Difference between them and us though is that they had a share issue to sort out their liquidity, ours is always done via loans from the owners and so will accrue interest.
So in an ordinary industry it'd be a risky position but in football it's about as secure as possible in the lower leagues (i.e. not particularly) but just a couple of seasons of poor performance or recruitment can stuff you right up. The Covid effect on everyone will be interesting to see. But I don't see anything there to suggest Barnsley are in any more shit than any other team.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
But all it takes it a season or two of doing that and getting it wrong and you can suffer. It'd be a double whammy because if they don't work out not only can you not sell them for big profits but poor performance on the pitch could result in relegation and loss of income there as well.
It's risky and don't assume you'll always get it right. What if the coaching staff get recognised for their ability to bring on these players and get nabbed by a bigger fish? Someone offers them a big wage increase for doing the same job and they'll likely take it.
Barnsley
Well-Known Member
We change our coaching staff every season just about, We seem to be getting recruitment right every season be it coaches, players, and so on , the recruitment committee own the club so they’ll not be nabbed.
Our problems will start again when we have to let 5or6 go at the same time again like in summer 2019
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
In that case it's even riskier as not only are you relying on getting player recruitment right but also coach recruitment.
Jamesimus
Well-Known Member
Lol. Exactly what everyone is saying; that's the risk isn't it.
Changing your coaching staff nearly every season hardly sounds like a long term future plan.
Barnsley
Well-Known Member
Yes but their track record of both is very very good.
Jamesimus
Well-Known Member
They'll definitely always get it right then...
Barnsley
Well-Known Member
But we’re replacing them with better coaches every time.
Barnsley
Well-Known Member
Obviously they won’t, but on the playing side we recruit for both the first team and U23s every summer so we seem to always have some one stepping up, with the coaching side we’re scouting for them all the time, if one doesn’t work out we move on to the next, and he’ll be someone who works well with the type of players we recruit. Maximising the chances of him hitting the ground running like the last 3 have. It’ll not always work out but we’ve stacked the odds in our favour which is all we can do.
Jamesimus
Well-Known Member
Genius. Other football clubs should follow suit.
Barnsley
Well-Known Member
They are. It’s the only way forward to be sustainable.
Johhny Blue
Well-Known Member
You should try our system.
Take young players, develop them, sell them for millions and get them back for nothing.
Great business.
MusicDating
Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
I remember the Bury fan on here bigging up their finances and saying they were gonna be massive...
play_in_skyblue_stripes
Well-Known Member
Bump thread,
Barnsley now in play off spot.
On a great run.
Barnsley now in play off spot.
On a great run.
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
I really hope they go up
Gleneagles65
Well-Known Member
I hope Barnsley go up, they play nice football and have found that winning mentality. Hopefully we can emulate them next season.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Why?
Ccfcisparks
Well-Known Member
It would nice to see a club, that wasn’t expected to go up, to go up. To see one of the small fry in this league outcompete the big spenders who try and spend their way to the top. It would give us a hope as a club that we can compete in this league on a tiny budget.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Frostie
Well-Known Member
johnwillomagic
Well-Known Member
Ever since I said Barnsley could be sucked into a relegation dogfight they have been on an unbelievable run of form! 
Barnsley definitely owes me a pint or two for that when I'm up that neck of the country - a good night out to be had in Barnsley!
They are doing fantastically well and I love an underdog so now almost hoping they reach the promised land!
Barnsley definitely owes me a pint or two for that when I'm up that neck of the country - a good night out to be had in Barnsley!
They are doing fantastically well and I love an underdog so now almost hoping they reach the promised land!
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Hardly - James until today has had zero impact on results - what an odd thing to say
I think Baka and Sheaf are bigger errors of judgement. For me James was only a gamble injury wise, he will always do a solid job and then on other occasions shine like he did today. I think if he couldn't play alongside Kelly then it may have been an issue. It also gives us a bit of experience which we are really short of. I don't think its that odd an opinion, although I do also get your point especially if they couldn't be paired.