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Bugsy

Bugsy

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueDom26 said:
He needs to get a grip, we shouldn’t be going into Sheffield and Burnley with carr still in charge, it just shows poor leadership
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Or it shows taking the time to find the right one with a strict interview process. Getting the right guy to take us forward is crucial.
 
Frostie

Frostie

Well-Known Member
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Lampard’s Derby team was not stronger than Villa or Leeds. On what metrics was his time in the Championship ‘woeful?’

I don’t think you’re being fair to say Lampard didn’t develop Mount (or anyone else). He came to Derby as an Eredivisie player, became a top Championship player and the season after was a key player for a UCL side. Looking at Yasin Ayari this year, are Robins and Eustace bad managers because they couldn’t get him playing well last season? Of course not.

Tactically, he was found out a few times in the Prem. Which isn’t a blot on your career of 3-4 seasons as a new manager. We’re a Championship side.

You know what, there isn’t actually a better candidate than Lampard out there atm so for the sake of the team and our club, we should all be hoping Lampard will smash it here.
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He did help develop Mount, I said that. I said with the exception of Bogle he didn't really develop any of Derby's own players.

In terms of metrics for his year at Derby being woeful:

xPts 15th
xG 19th
xG/per shot 21st
xGA 15th

There's no shame losing to Villa or Leeds but those underlying numbers are very, very worrying & clearly unsustainable for a team to consistently challenge at the top end. As I said, they were dragged into the playoffs by individual superstars playing below their true level, not due to any tactical or managerial genius. One example being Harry Wilson top scoring with 15 goals but 7 of them being from outside the penalty area, this is not repeatable stuff.

They finished 6th the previous season under Rowett as well but Lampard's team got fewer points, scored fewer goals & conceded more than Rowett's. So again, yes he has helped improve individual players (mostly for Chelsea's gain) but did he really improve Derby?
 
D

Deity

Well-Known Member
Frostie said:
He did help develop Mount, I said that. I said with the exception of Bogle he didn't really develop any of Derby's own players.

In terms of metrics for his year at Derby being woeful:

xPts 15th
xG 19th
xG/per shot 21st
xGA 15th

There's no shame losing to Villa or Leeds but those underlying numbers are very, very worrying & clearly unsustainable for a team to consistently challenge at the top end. As I said, they were dragged into the playoffs by individual superstars playing below their true level, not due to any tactical or managerial genius. One example being Harry Wilson top scoring with 15 goals but 7 of them being from outside the penalty area, this is not repeatable stuff.

They finished 6th the previous season under Rowett as well but Lampard's team got fewer points, scored fewer goals & conceded more than Rowett's. So again, yes he has helped improve individual players (mostly for Chelsea's gain) but did he really improve Derby?
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How were those metrics at Chelsea first time round ?
 
mmttww

mmttww

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueDom26 said:
He needs to get a grip, we shouldn’t be going into Sheffield and Burnley with carr still in charge, it just shows poor leadership
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FFS

When asked at the forum why people would trust him, King said that he'd done what he said he would. Hard to argue with that.

He was asked why no one was lined up. He explained he thought it would be sh*t to go behind MR's back. Don't see the issue.

He was asked what the plan was. He explained he wanted someone in before the Jan window opens. We're on track for that.

Poor leadership is not acting. He might end up getting it wrong, but he explained why he's made his decision really clearly.

He's shown leadership and fronted up when he's made mistakes (JSB stuff etc.). He took 'a grip' by deciding to fire Robins.

Be consistent. One minute he's too involved, next minute, he needs to get a grip. Internet outrage points scoring is a Yawn.

If he gets the appt. wrong, and / or over a long enough period the 'deck' is weaker than he and Austin think, he's f*cked it.

Until then, if people are gonna have a pop at what he does or doesn't do, FFS at least try and be coherent with what you're saying.
 
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S

StrettoBoy

Well-Known Member
For goodness sake chaps, let’s give the new man (whoever it is) time to settle in, get to know the players and work out the best tactics for us.

I won’t finalise my thoughts on him until deep into next season. We need to give him the next summer transfer season to restructure the squad as he thinks fit, subject to whatever financial constraints he may be under, and then let the new players bed in.

Some will say that the new coach won’t be involved in transfers and I get that but I can’t believe that he won’t be telling the recruitment team the sort of players we need and expressing a view on whatever names are put forward.

In the meantime let’s get behind the players and the new head coach and give them our full support.

Singing MR’s name and chanting “Lampard out” (if he is the man) will only be counter-productive.
 
S

StrettoBoy

Well-Known Member
mmttww said:
FFS

When asked at the forum why people would trust him, King said that he'd done what he said he would. Hard to argue with that.

He was asked why no one was lined up. He explained he thought it would be sh*t to go behind MR's back. Don't see the issue.

He was asked what the plan was. He explained he wanted someone in before the Jan window opens. We're on track for that.

Poor leadership is not acting. He might end up getting it wrong, but he explained why he's made his decision really clearly.

He's shown leadership and fronted up when he's made mistakes (JSB stuff etc.). He took 'a grip' by deciding to fire Robins.

Be consistent. One minute he's too involved, next minute, he needs to get a grip. Internet outrage points scoring is a Yawn.

If he gets the appt. wrong, or over a long enough period the 'deck' is weaker than he and Austin think it is, he's f*cked it.

Until then, if people are gonna have a pop at what he does or doesn't do, FFS at least try and be coherent with what you're saying.
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I think that sums it up pretty well 👍
 
T

trakia plovdiv

Member
Frostie said:
He did help develop Mount, I said that. I said with the exception of Bogle he didn't really develop any of Derby's own players.

In terms of metrics for his year at Derby being woeful:

xPts 15th
xG 19th
xG/per shot 21st
xGA 15th

There's no shame losing to Villa or Leeds but those underlying numbers are very, very worrying & clearly unsustainable for a team to consistently challenge at the top end. As I said, they were dragged into the playoffs by individual superstars playing below their true level, not due to any tactical or managerial genius. One example being Harry Wilson top scoring with 15 goals but 7 of them being from outside the penalty area, this is not repeatable stuff.

They finished 6th the previous season under Rowett as well but Lampard's team got fewer points, scored fewer goals & conceded more than Rowett's. So again, yes he has helped improve individual players (mostly for Chelsea's gain) but did he really improve Derby?
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I saw a lot of Derby in their play-off season - the Mrs is a fan - and this is 100% correct. His weird team selection for the PO final - the eternally ineffectual Mason Bennett up front - still riles Derby fans, and sums up the argument that they largely did well despite him rather than because of him - and because Mount & Tomori were 8-9/10 every week. Nothing in his subsequent career suggests he’s a good manager. We could do so much better.
 
alexccfc99

alexccfc99

Well-Known Member
mmttww said:
FFS

When asked at the forum why people would trust him, King said that he'd done what he said he would. Hard to argue with that.

He was asked why no one was lined up. He explained he thought it would be sh*t to go behind MR's back. Don't see the issue.

He was asked what the plan was. He explained he wanted someone in before the Jan window opens. We're on track for that.

Poor leadership is not acting. He might end up getting it wrong, but he explained why he's made his decision really clearly.

He's shown leadership and fronted up when he's made mistakes (JSB stuff etc.). He took 'a grip' by deciding to fire Robins.

Be consistent. One minute he's too involved, next minute, he needs to get a grip. Internet outrage points scoring is a Yawn.

If he gets the appt. wrong, or over a long enough period the 'deck' is weaker than he and Austin think it is, he's f*cked it.

Until then, if people are gonna have a pop at what he does or doesn't do, FFS at least try and be coherent with what you're saying.
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It’s getting boring and fucking nauseating and there’s as much if not more whinging nowadays than there was when we didn’t know what stadium we’d be playing at the following season or when we were flogging our best defender to a divisional rival for about 20p and a jar of magic beans

** I wouldn’t mind but most of the people moaning don’t want Lampard anyway and are still completely hung up over Robins
 
S

StrettoBoy

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Managers are capable of improving in the same way players are. If he has learned from his past jobs and become better from the setbacks then we’d be getting a better Lampard than the rookie he was at Derby.
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Well said 👍

I don’t recall MR being an instant hit with us and he turned out to be one of the best, arguably the best given the state the club was in, managers we have ever had.
 
Frostie

Frostie

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Managers are capable of improving in the same way players are. If he has learned from his past jobs and become better from the setbacks then we’d be getting a better Lampard than the rookie he was at Derby.
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Totally agree tbf & I've often said the same about Robins & other managers in the past. I just think it's a hell of a ridiculous gamble to take based on seemingly 'vibes'.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueDom26 said:
The evidence is we have gone 15 days without a manager and are now playing 2 of the best teams in the league
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If we lose both games that is 6 points lost, that could have had different outcomes due to a new manager bounce.

Not guaranteed of course, but obviously you would expect an established manager to be able to come up with a better strategy and give a better team talk and work on changes within a game than Rhys Carr (no offence to him)
 
mmttww

mmttww

Well-Known Member
Frostie said:
He did help develop Mount, I said that. I said with the exception of Bogle he didn't really develop any of Derby's own players.

In terms of metrics for his year at Derby being woeful:

xPts 15th
xG 19th
xG/per shot 21st
xGA 15th

There's no shame losing to Villa or Leeds but those underlying numbers are very, very worrying & clearly unsustainable for a team to consistently challenge at the top end. As I said, they were dragged into the playoffs by individual superstars playing below their true level, not due to any tactical or managerial genius. One example being Harry Wilson top scoring with 15 goals but 7 of them being from outside the penalty area, this is not repeatable stuff.

They finished 6th the previous season under Rowett as well but Lampard's team got fewer points, scored fewer goals & conceded more than Rowett's. So again, yes he has helped improve individual players (mostly for Chelsea's gain) but did he really improve Derby?
Click to expand...

Doesn't make great reading and confirms a lot of worries I've got. Really hope it's not him, or that he's gone through some kind of transformation since leaving his last job and become amazing!
 
SkyBlueDom26

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
If we lose both games that is 6 points lost, that could have had different outcomes due to a new manager bounce.

Not guaranteed of course, but obviously you would expect an established manager to be able to come up with a better strategy and give a better team talk and work on changes within a game than Rhys Carr (no offence to him)
Click to expand...
Finally someone else talking sense, if it does turn out to be Lampard it should have been done within the first week of the break
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Bugsy said:
Or it shows taking the time to find the right one with a strict interview process. Getting the right guy to take us forward is crucial.
Click to expand...
Despite him blurting out at the fans" forum, "yeah, it's gonna be Lampard".
 
eyesee

eyesee

Well-Known Member
mmttww said:
FFS

When asked at the forum why people would trust him, King said that he'd done what he said he would. Hard to argue with that.

He was asked why no one was lined up. He explained he thought it would be sh*t to go behind MR's back. Don't see the issue.

He was asked what the plan was. He explained he wanted someone in before the Jan window opens. We're on track for that.

Poor leadership is not acting. He might end up getting it wrong, but he explained why he's made his decision really clearly.

He's shown leadership and fronted up when he's made mistakes (JSB stuff etc.). He took 'a grip' by deciding to fire Robins.

Be consistent. One minute he's too involved, next minute, he needs to get a grip. Internet outrage points scoring is a Yawn.

If he gets the appt. wrong, or over a long enough period the 'deck' is weaker than he and Austin think it is, he's f*cked it.

Until then, if people are gonna have a pop at what he does or doesn't do, FFS at least try and be coherent with what you're saying.
Click to expand...
sorry, you are completely missing the point.
how are the conspiracy theorists and relentless bullshitters expected to work within that framework?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Frostie said:
Totally agree tbf & I've often said the same about Robins & other managers in the past. I just think it's a hell of a ridiculous gamble to take based on seemingly 'vibes'.
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I have mixed feelings on him and he isn’t who I’d pick. But I think he has a decent chance still of succeeding here.
 
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