Ched Evans (36 Viewers)

stupot07 · Jun 27, 2015

Samo said:
How so?

Samo said:
It has to be said that the SBT intelligentsia has not emerged well from this debate. I fully agree that CE has been found guilty and is guilty but it seems that the majority are of the opinion, (either directly expressed or implied) that:
1. If he were to be found innocent after a further appeal he would still be guilty. you can still be guilty of a crime even if found innocent, it is up to the prosecution to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt, if there's a lack of tangible evidence or a fuck up on procedure defendants will get off, doesn't mean they never committed the crime - plenty of offenders get off or don't get prosecuted due to lack of evidence despite them committing the actual crime - Al Capone for eg was responsible for numerous murders, but the police couldn't get the evidence so is only guilty of tax evasion - he's still a murderous b*#^?~d.
2. That he should not be allowed a further appeal. no one has said this
3. That the conviction should be trusted along with denied appeals but that any further appeal should not be. see above.
4. Anybody, including the press, should not be allowed to express concern over the safety of the conviction as this might upsetting for the victim. (including forum posters) no one has said this, however this is the point - there's a fine line between questioning the safety of the verdict and calling in to question the victims integrity - she wasn't drunk, she was bragging about them being footballers/she's lied,/her skirt was too short/she knew what she was doing/she was asking for it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Astute · Jun 27, 2015

I like the way he is allowed to have a website to say how much of a nice person he is and to say that he didn't do anything wrong but we are not supposed to agree with the legal systems verdict.

Shakeitup · Jun 27, 2015

stupot07 said:
She did but he got acquitted as it appeared she went under her own free (albeit drunk) will.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Astute said:
I like the way he is allowed to have a website to say how much of a nice person he is and to say that he didn't do anything wrong but we are not supposed to agree with the legal systems verdict.

2+2=69494648

Samo · Jun 27, 2015

stupot07 said:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

On point 1... Your opinion overrides the law then? So I was right, if he is innocent he is still guilty.
On point 4... When did I, even for a second, question the victims integrity?

Samo · Jun 27, 2015

Astute said:
I like the way he is allowed to have a website to say how much of a nice person he is and to say that he didn't do anything wrong but we are not supposed to agree with the legal systems verdict.

Now you are starting to sound a little dense. Anyone can have a website saying whatever they want, including him and her. Who on earth said that you shouldn't agree with the legal system? Grow up.

Astute · Jun 27, 2015

Shakeitup said:
2+2=69494648

Thanks for sharing your intelligence with us.

Shakeitup · Jun 27, 2015

stupot07 said:
She did but he got acquitted as it appeared she went under her own free (albeit drunk) will.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Astute said:
I like the way he is allowed to have a website to say how much of a nice person he is and to say that he didn't do anything wrong but we are not supposed to agree with the legal systems verdict.

Astute said:
Thanks for sharing your intelligence with us.

You really have made me feel stupid this evening. I have to read through your posts numerous times to make any sense of them!

stupot07 · Jun 27, 2015

Samo said:
On point 1... Your opinion overrides the law then? So I was right, if he is innocent he is still guilty.
On point 4... When did I, even for a second, question the victims integrity?

Point 1 - what I'm saying is you can still be legally found innocent yet have actually committed the crime.
Point 4 not saying you personally have said this. But surely if he is found innocent as you said earlier the victim is no longer the victim and her version of events will have no integrity.

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Astute · Jun 27, 2015

Samo said:
Now you are starting to sound a little dense. Anyone can have a website saying whatever they want, including him and her. Who on earth said that you shouldn't agree with the legal system? Grow up.

No they can't.

Me grow up? Not me that has done name calling or only chosen certain aspects to debate.

Astute · Jun 27, 2015

Shakeitup said:
You really have made me feel stupid this evening. I have to read through your posts numerous times to make any sense of them!

You have proved your point quite well as only two of them posts were by me

Shakeitup · Jun 27, 2015

stupot07 said:
She did but he got acquitted as it appeared she went under her own free (albeit drunk) will.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Astute said:
I like the way he is allowed to have a website to say how much of a nice person he is and to say that he didn't do anything wrong but we are not supposed to agree with the legal systems verdict.

Astute said:
Thanks for sharing your intelligence with us.

Astute said:
You have proved your point quite well as only two of them posts were by me

Those.

And them quotes were quoting you...innit. Have you been drinking?

Astute · Jun 27, 2015

Shakeitup said:
Those.

And them quotes were quoting you...innit. Have you been drinking?

Can't you read the top one again? Not me drinking as at work. But I can certainly see a post again not done by me

Samo · Jun 27, 2015

stupot07 said:
Point 1 - what I'm saying is you can still be legally found innocent yet have actually committed the crime.
Point 4 not saying you personally have said this. But surely if he is found innocent as you said earlier the victim is no longer the victim and her version of events will have no integrity.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

1. Yes and vice versa
4. Yes, as might be expected, and?

I don't really see what issue you had with my post?

Shakeitup · Jun 27, 2015

stupot07 said:
She did but he got acquitted as it appeared she went under her own free (albeit drunk) will.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Astute said:
I like the way he is allowed to have a website to say how much of a nice person he is and to say that he didn't do anything wrong but we are not supposed to agree with the legal systems verdict.

Astute said:
Thanks for sharing your intelligence with us.

Astute said:
You have proved your point quite well as only two of them posts were by me

Astute said:
Can't you read the top one again? Not me drinking as at work. But I can certainly see a post again not done by me

Adding smiley faces does not equate to being funny. And yes, I can read it clearly.

My points were directed solely to your posts. I'm not confusing yours with anyone else's. I'm not sure why when replying it has accumulated several quotes.

However, your appaling use of English and the rationing of commas, combined with your illogical arguments make what you write very difficult to follow.

Maybe you need to concentrate more at work! These demanding posts can receive your full attention at a later date. We will await your wisdom! (Inserts iron is smiley face to feel masterful!)

Astute · Jun 28, 2015

Shakeitup said:
Adding smiley faces does not equate to being funny. And yes, I can read it clearly.

My points were directed solely to your posts. I'm not confusing yours with anyone else's. I'm not sure why when replying it has accumulated several quotes.

However, your appaling use of English and the rationing of commas, combined with your illogical arguments make what you write very difficult to follow.

Maybe you need to concentrate more at work! These demanding posts can receive your full attention at a later date. We will await your wisdom! (Inserts iron is smiley face to feel masterful!)

My English is quite satisfactory.

'Inserts iron is smiley face to feel masterful' is well past my knowledge of the English language though.

Otis · Jun 28, 2015

So, are we signing him or not and do we think he would slot in well alongside Marcus Tudgay?

Astute · Jun 28, 2015

Otis said:
So, are we signing him or not and do we think he would slot in well alongside Marcus Tudgay?

Leave Tudgay out of this. He is a family man.

Otis · Jun 28, 2015

Astute said:
Leave Tudgay out of this. He is a family man.

So's Ched.

He loves his mum and dad and his girlfriend very much and is a thoroughly decent chap who wouldn't hurt a fly.

Well according to his website anyway.

Astute · Jun 28, 2015

Otis said:
So's Ched.

He loves his mum and dad and his girlfriend very much and is a thoroughly decent chap who wouldn't hurt a fly.

Well according to his website anyway.

Maybe he is being truthful. His mum and his dad and his girlfriend are not flies.

Or he thinks that the only way of hurting someone is to punch them in the face. And he certainly never laid a finger on his girlfriend as he was busy elsewhere. So he must be innocent.

Hobo · Jun 28, 2015

Who else stopped playing in 2012, anyone worth bringing out of retirement after 3 years?

Otis · Jun 28, 2015

Hobo said:
Who else stopped playing in 2012, anyone worth bringing out of retirement after 3 years?

Adam Barton.

He stopped playing after 2012.

Otis · Oct 5, 2015

So, he has got his appeal.

New evidence not available at his trial. Hope this is sorted and out to bed one way or another. If he remains guilty after this, that is going to have put his victim through the whole thing over again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-34441348

Otis · Oct 5, 2015

Footballer Ched Evans is to have his rape conviction reviewed by the Court of Appeal.

The Wales football international was jailed for five years in 2012 after being found guilty of raping a 19-year-old woman at a hotel near Rhyl.

Evans, 26, was released last year after serving half of his sentence.
The Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) referred the conviction after his lawyers lodged fresh evidence.
The body said it had carried out a 10-month investigation into the case and referred it based on new information which was not raised at trial.

Evans, a former Sheffield United player, has always maintained his innocence but his attempts to restart his career with Oldham Athletic and his former club collapsed in the face of a public outcry.

He sought leave to appeal following his conviction, which was dismissed in November 2012.
Richard Foster, chairman of the CCRC, said: "The decision of the commission is not a judgment on guilt of innocence in relation to Ched Evans, nor is it a judgment about the honesty or integrity of the victim or any other person involved in the case.
Our role is to consider applications to see if, in our judgment, there is any basis on which to ask the court to hear a fresh appeal - that is our statutory responsibility.

"In this case we have identified new material which was not considered by the jury at trial and which in our view might have assisted the defence. In those circumstances, it is right and proper for the matter to be before the court so that they can decide whether or not the new information should affect the verdict in this case."

In its statement, the CCRC said it was very aware of the impact its decisions can have for victims of crimes and stressed the anonymity guaranteed by law for the victim in this case.

It said: "We have been particularly mindful of the targeted abuse suffered by the victim in this case and have sought to act accordingly.

"Since this application arrived in July 2014, we have been careful to keep her informed about stages of the commission's review so that, as far as it has been in our power to do so, she has learned about developments in the case from us rather than from any other source."

Nick · Oct 5, 2015

Read an article about John Leslie earlier, life ruined because of false claims

What happens if his conviction is overturned? Will anything happen to the girl?

Otis · Oct 5, 2015

Nick said:
Read an article about John Leslie earlier, life ruined because of false claims

What happens if his conviction is overturned? Will anything happen to the girl?

Well it should do. If the claim of rape proves to be false. Guess it all depends on what this new evidence is.

rupert_bear · Oct 5, 2015

If found in his favour would we welcome him here ?

matesx · Oct 5, 2015

Looking from the outside there's always been something not quite right about this case.

In the justice system we have to trust.

skybluesam66 · Oct 5, 2015

guilty or innocent - maybe in the eyes of the law he will turn out to be innocent - but even if you accept his version of events, then morally he is in the gutter, and should not be welcomed here

Skyblueweeman · Oct 5, 2015

rupert_bear said:
If found in his favour would we welcome him here ?

I guess if he's innocent, there shouldn't be a reason to not have him back but that said, he did come across as a bit of an arse through the whole thing, even if innocent. If he is innocent (which will be a weight of his mind and he should be free to get back to his career), then I'd be concerned that his character might be the divisive sort we wouldn't want in the camp.

procdoc · Oct 5, 2015

If he's found innocent then what would be the issue with us signing him? Having already served his sentence there must be a very good reason why he has always maintained his innocence and spent a lot of money on an appeal. Not saying he's innocent as he still may be found guilty despite this apparent new evidence but still...

Hobo · Oct 5, 2015

He wouldn't get my vote.

Wyken Sky Blue · Oct 5, 2015

If he is innocent then yes I would like o have him here.

Until then he is a convicted rapist whether you agree with the proceedings or not.

Deleted member 5849 · Oct 5, 2015

skyblue1991 said:
If he is innocent then yes I would like o have him here.

Until then he is a convicted rapist whether you agree with the proceedings or not.

'Like' maybe a bit far but he would be more than entitled to resume his career and also claim compensation for the lost parts of his career. It doesn't make him a lovely human being but footballers, alas, often aren't.

However yes, the simple fact is he has been convicted, and is still convicted.

As for "there must be a very good reason why he has always maintained his innocence and spent a lot of money on an appeal" well, it could be as simple as arrogance. King, after all, continually protested his innocence and was starting an appeal when we signed him...

He's got the opportunity to test his evidence, which is what he wanted, so he'll have some objective arbiters decide whether it's valid or not.

Ranjit Bhurpa · Oct 5, 2015

Even if he is innocent , I wouldn't want him here. Too much 'baggage'. Imagine the reception from opposition fans for probably months on end and the unsettling effect this might have on the team?

So no thank you.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Oct 5, 2015

Otis said:
Well it should do. If the claim of rape proves to be false. Guess it all depends on what this new evidence is.

Nick said:
Read an article about John Leslie earlier, life ruined because of false claims

What happens if his conviction is overturned? Will anything happen to the girl?

Why would anything happen, she will still have done nothing wrong as far as I can see?

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