City Centre, what to go and what to build (1 Viewer)

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Nick

Nick

Administrator
wingy said:
I think you will find the reason no one shops in city centre any more is to do with the myriad satellite shopping centres placed around the edge of the City not to mention other towns on the cusp of the city now having the own outlets.
Debenham at Elliott Field for example
The city centre is large enough IMO.
What needs to change is how and what it is used for, again IMO.
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That's the thing, I don't have any need to go into the town centre at all unless it is an emergency where it can't be bought anywhere else and I need it that day. I think I have been twice in the last couple of years and that was just go to the motor museum.

With the Tescos Arena, Gallagher, Internet I find I can buy most of the things I need to without having to go into town. If I go to Argos at Gallagher I just drive there, park pretty much outside, get my stuff, walk to my car and go. There isn't the hassle of traipsing across town from the carpark, paying for parking etc.

The example about going in Marks and Spencers, there is one at the Ricoh. Just park outside. :)

It is all about convenience isn't it? If I am working until 5, why would I bother driving into town to go to an M & S that shuts at 6 after walking from the car park when I can rock up to the Ricoh where it is open until 8 and I can park directly outside?

If I wanted a day out shopping which is rare as we hate shopping, I wouldn't bother going to the city centre I'd go to Merry Hill or Solihull. The last time I went into a city centre it was Solihull because I wanted Richer Sounds for a demo.

People are busy, why would I bother going into town to buy a DVD for example when I can buy it online for cheaper and it gets delivered to me. This will get worse when you see amazon and argos doing same day deliveries now...
 
H

Houdi

Well-Known Member
wingy said:
I think you will find the reason no one shops in city centre any more is to do with the myriad satellite shopping centres placed around the edge of the City not to mention other towns on the cusp of the city now having the own outlets.
Debenham at Elliott Field for example
The city centre is large enough IMO.
What needs to change is how and what it is used for, again IMO.
Click to expand...

Other cities have myriad shopping outlets ie Fosse Park at Leicester.I remember seeing on the Council's own website that we didn't feature in the top 50, even though on population we are around 10/11 on population. How people can be content about that is beyond belief.
In a 2013 retail visitor report again on total spend we didn't even make the top 50. To be fair even the council recognise we have got a serious problem, I believe they are still struggling to attract an anchor tenent for Coventry South. Relatively small towns like Peterborough/Crawley/Bath/Exeter/Watford all comfortably make the top 50.
Apparently the ring road in Coventry (from skyscrapers forum) encloses just 300 acres, and has created several dead end roads. that hit the ring road and stop,ie there is no through traffic either car or pedestrian traffic. Coventry is known as a ghost town for a reason it is a ghost town.
Coventry fails as a shopping destination and its night time economy is virtually non existent. Honestly I don't think I've ever met anyone who says different.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
TV
Houdi said:
Other cities have myriad shopping outlets ie Fosse Park at Leicester.I remember seeing on the Council's own website that we didn't feature in the top 50, even though on population we are around 10/11 on population. How people can be content about that is beyond belief.
In a 2013 retail visitor report again on total spend we didn't even make the top 50. To be fair even the council recognise we have got a serious problem, I believe they are still struggling to attract an anchor tenent for Coventry South. Relatively small towns like Peterborough/Crawley/Bath/Exeter/Watford all comfortably make the top 50.
Apparently the ring road in Coventry (from skyscrapers forum) encloses just 300 acres, and has created several dead end roads. that hit the ring road and stop,ie there is no through traffic either car or pedestrian traffic. Coventry is known as a ghost town for a reason it is a ghost town.
Coventry fails as a shopping destination and its night time economy is virtually non existent. Honestly I don't think I've ever met anyone who says different.
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Yet we feature on best places to live re work opportunities /cost etc, one of best for Students etc.
You have to recognise currently, unlike the 60's-70's the earning potential in this City does not lead the way nationally.
If we are currently not achieving good footfall through the CITY Centre what will expanding it and wrecking a good piece Of infrastructure achieve?
 
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Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
Not going to argue with you as it is pointless. Statistics can tell you many things.

Victoria Centre has 65 retail outlets and West Orchards 40.

How can you just base how busy a city is on one shopping mall within each city is beyond me.

I am in the town centre all the time and very rarely go in West Orchards. The shops there on the whole are not as good as elsewhere in the centre.

You have to admit you are just a very, very argumentative bugger. If you can point me in the direction of one single day where you have posted and not had an argument with someone I would be most grateful.
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I picked west orchards because according to the councils own analysis it's the most popular shopping area in the city.

Frankly on this issue you sound like Italia - totally blind to statistics and logic. It's pretty obvious if the most popular area with footfall in coventry attracts less than a third of the visitors of a centre in towns of other similar sizes that the actual footfall as a whole is massively lower.

Read the councils own stats. It shows declines well beyond national averages and this is a trend hrs had been going for years. Look at the site that shows these stats.

Anyone other than you would say its footfall is dire. They are saying it on this thread.

You say I'm sad. What's sad is someone with their head in the sand and saying that all is fine and dandy when all stats and anecdotal evidence says exactly the opposite.

http://coventryobserver.co.uk/news/...ine-shows-report-on-council-performance-8128/
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
wingy said:
TV
Yet we feature on best places to live re work opportunities /cost etc, one of best for Students etc.
You have to recognise currently, unlike the 60's-70's the earning potential in this City does not lead the way nationally.
If we are currently not achieving good footfall through the CITY Centre what will expanding it and wrecking a good piece Of infrastructure achieve?
Click to expand...

The thing with students, is that a lot of them will all buy things online rather than go onto town compared to other types of people.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
wingy said:
TV
Yet we feature on best places to live re work opportunities /cost etc, one of best for Students etc.
You have to recognise currently, unlike the 60's-70's the earning potential in this City does not lead the way nationally.
If we are currently not achieving good footfall through the CITY Centre what will expanding it and wrecking a good piece Of infrastructure achieve?
Click to expand...

The point is though that the city has never tried to attract the higher demographic buyer. That's why it's poor compared to most other uk cities.

It's neglected infrastructure and poor choice of high end demographic stores alienates massive amounts of the population.

Look at this article. Hereford is a small city by comparison but attracted in December the same amount of footfall as coventrys most popular centre - west orchards. Why? It's new and it's attracting new buyers with high end stores housed in one pleasant area - fat face Jack wills etc.

Leicester and Nottingham attract affluence with John Lewis.

Coventry is a Primark city and has no ambition or desire to improve

http://herefordshirelive.co.uk/lifestyle/old-market
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
Grendel said:
The point is though that the city has never tried to attract the higher demographic buyer. That's why it's poor compared to most other uk cities.

It's neglected infrastructure and poor choice of high end demographic stores alienates massive amounts of the population.

Look at this article. Hereford is a small city by comparison but attracted in December the same amount of footfall as coventrys most popular centre - west orchards. Why? It's new and it's attracting new buyers with high end stores housed in one pleasant area - fat face Jack wills etc.

Leicester and Nottingham attract affluence with John Lewis.

Coventry is a Primark city and has no ambition or desire to improve

http://herefordshirelive.co.uk/lifestyle/old-market
Click to expand...

I wonder how many people go into the city centre just to go to Primark, I know a few who would only bother then.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
I picked west orchards because according to the councils own analysis it's the most popular shopping area in the city.

Frankly on this issue you sound like Italia - totally blind to statistics and logic. It's pretty obvious if the most popular area with footfall in coventry attracts less than a third of the visitors of a centre in towns of other similar sizes that the actual footfall as a whole is massively lower.

Read the councils own stats. It shows declines well beyond national averages and this is a trend hrs had been going for years. Look at the site that shows these stats.

Anyone other than you would say its footfall is dire. They are saying it on this thread.

You say I'm sad. What's sad is someone with their head in the sand and saying that all is fine and dandy when all stats and anecdotal evidence says exactly the opposite.

http://coventryobserver.co.uk/news/...ine-shows-report-on-council-performance-8128/
Click to expand...
Please show me one place anywhere where I have said everything is fine and dandy.

Yep, thought not.

I know everything isn't great and have said so many times before.
 
S

scubasteve

Well-Known Member
In my opinion the reason Coventry lagged behind other cities like Leicester and Nottingham (better comparison in size, the Birmingham comparison is pointless its the 2nd biggest city) is these invested in the university students long ago. Coventry didn't and are now only just doing this hence why Coventry uni is now in the top 20 universities in the UK.

As much as a lot of people hate the fact that we keep building student accommodation, the city centre needs this, the more students that come here increases the population in the city centre. they spend all there time in the city centre, shopping, eating and drinking, the demand for high end shops, bars and restaurants was not there 10-15 years ago. The demand is starting to come now, you can see chain restaurants opening las iguanas, cosy club etc. with the friar gate and the additional building at the Belgrade we will see more, and some better quality shops. Attracting students to the city means some usually stay at the city for work, this attracts business to invest in the city and better paid jobs This means better quality shopping, entertainment in the city centre as people have deposable income.

The argument that the ring road affects the town centre doesn't make sense to me, if small towns, with small town centres, and smaller population can attract better quality shopping and entertainment so can a city centre our size. Its all down to demand and cliental, shops like john Lewis will not invest in a city if they believe it wont work, people wont visit the city centre if the quality isn't there. its a cycle that can only be broken by increasing the population the town centre and its cliental, and that's the reason for the big shift in focus towards the university and students.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/two-huge-city-student-housing-10695760

And some more student developments.
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Hopefully the knock on effect of dedicated Student Accommodation is that it releases housing stock to the regular market.
Of course the simple truth is that Nationally we do not ever build enough to meet the demand.
But elswhere where I said changing the use of the Centre to more Commercial and Public. should entail more city centre living and provision of more apartments.
 
Captain Dart

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Latest illustration of Tower St blocks (formerly PO sorting building), bet you any money it looks much cheaper than this in reality, possibly a different colour entirely.
JS81182945.jpg
 
C

CCFC88

Well-Known Member
More good news for the city! If this had been done 30 years ago the place would be a much more prosperus and vibrant city.

We completely missed the student boom where places like Nottingham Leeds Liverpool etc milked it for all its worth and are reaping the benefits now.

The important thing is making the city a place where students want to stay and live after their studies and help with growth/development.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Not so sure.

We have to get the balance right. We are building student accommodation everywhere and little thought is going into anything else.

Where are the green areas? Where are the increase in shops and places to eat to accommodate all these extra students in the city centre?

We are just building concrete blocks everywhere and giving very little thought to anything else at all.

The old Allied Carpets store, the old AXA building, the old post office, the old Leofric hotel, a massive development down Gosford Street, opposite the Belgrade Plaza, behind the Belgrade Plaza, the car park opposite the swimming baths and now they are talking about the possibility of the old fire station too.

Needs more care and thought.

The old fire station is a lovely old building with lovely views from upstairs from the restaurant.

A much better use would be to incorporate the old toy museum that burned down and then also a reflection on the watch and ribbon industries and possibly a Godiva experience.

The transport museum opposite has nearly half a million visitors per year and this would tie in nicely with that. You could still have the cafe upstairs and with the river now being opened up opposite Sainsbury's, it could make it a much nicer area.

I'm all for accommodating students, but let's not just throw lumps of concrete up here there and everywhere without any thought at all for anything else.

Coventry needs more greenery. It could all end up a lot greyer than it already is if we are not careful.
 
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C

CCFC88

Well-Known Member
I think it is a bit chicken and egg, you need the footfall in the city to sustain new restaurants/bars/shops but then it is also these amenities which plays a part in peoples decision making on where to move to/live. At the moment if I visited the city as an 18 year old deciding where to spend my next 3+ years I dont think Id ever come back, hopefully 3/5/10 years down the line this will change.

There must be the market there for more student accomodation else they wouldnt be being built, and as far as this latest build is concerned you are replacing grey with a slightly lighter, new age shade of grey so I dont really see any harm.

It would be very interresting to see stats over the past 20 years of Coventry university students, from the city living at home vs moved to the city from other areas. The boom of thes buildings we are seeing would suggest more are coming here from other areas and that can only be good for the city.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
But if they keep building all this accommodation there will be nowhere for any shops or restaurants! We are building student accommodation on every bit of available space. There's next to nowhere left.

The city, as I say, is also screaming out for more greenery. There's nothing apart from Lady Herbert's garden and tiny little bits of grass by Broadgate.
 
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Nick

Nick

Administrator
If everything is students and things for students, where do the grown ups go?

Probably Solihull or Leicester.
 
C

CCFC88

Well-Known Member
Where do the grownups go now though? Where have they been going for the last 25/30 years which hasnt closed due to people not going into town enough.

Having lived in Leeds and Sheffield for years the amount of people that go out drinking and lunching on Saturday daytimes is enormous compared to Coventry, fair enough they are bigger citys but we can even fill the places we have now.

I do think that being 30 mins from Brum has something to do with this but new places arent going to open in the city until the current businesses are booming.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
CCFC88 said:
Where do the grownups go now though? Where have they been going for the last 25/30 years which hasnt closed due to people not going into town enough.

Having lived in Leeds and Sheffield for years the amount of people that go out drinking and lunching on Saturday daytimes is enormous compared to Coventry, fair enough they are bigger citys but we can even fill the places we have now.

I do think that being 30 mins from Brum has something to do with this but new places arent going to open in the city until the current businesses are booming.
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Hard enough now to find somewhere to eat in the city centre at times

Said this before on here a few months back.

We were shopping in town on a Saturday and it was 10 to 6, so we decided we would stay and eat in town. We rang 14 places up, all in and around the city centre and couldn't get in anywhere. Everywhere was full.

Earliest table we could get was 8.30 pm.

This was just a normal Saturday and not a special occasion.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Oh and the 8.30 place was Tumeric Gold and they said we would have to be out by 9.30, as they had other bookings.
 
olderskyblue

olderskyblue

Well-Known Member
Otis said:
Oh and the 8.30 place was Tumeric Gold and they said we would have to be out by 9.30, as they had other bookings.
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What you ate would have been out quicker than that.... ;)
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
The problem seems to be there's no plan and the council are next to useless at attracting any business to the area. So you end up with something closing, sitting empty for months / years and then the 'no one else was interested' argument is used to justify student housing.

The council need to get together with the Unis and look at the projected numbers and come up with a long term plan, not keep using this piecemeal approach. And they desperately need to work out what they are going to do for non-students.

You often find people say 'nothing can be done', or 'they won't come here' but other cities face the same problems and have councils that work proactively to do something to resolve the issues.
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
So in went into town today

I had a man try and convert me to Muslim, one say i.should be Christian. Lots of religious music blasting out and then to top it off some absolutely mental harry Krishna people walking about all the time.

Couldn't get what i wanted, went to the ricoh tesco in the end!
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
So in went into town today

I had a man try and convert me to Muslim, one say i.should be Christian. Lots of religious music blasting out and then to top it off some absolutely mental harry Krishna people walking about all the time.

Couldn't get what i wanted, went to the ricoh tesco in the end!
Click to expand...
Must be something about your face, Nick. :)
 
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