city protest (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter sky blue zam
- Start date
Astute
Well-Known Member
Who mentioned the name RR?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Last time we were up for sale sisu and Geoffrey Robinson were interested. We were in the top half of the championship.
usskyblue
Well-Known Member
Not that you even understand the question dumbass..
..but I did
The others on here are right, you're shit at this
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Sure they've signed some freebies, but the idea that it is an "improved" playing side from last season is very much up for debate. I'd say it isn't, not by a long chalk. More has gone out in wages and transfer fees than has come in.
They have improved their conduct in terms of they have actually signed players, but to me it still looks like selling everyone with a value for the first decent offer they get. And so it will continue.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I thought that last season the squad was full of kids?
I reckon overall our squad now is stronger than the one that finished last season. We are a selling club, always have been, always will be. Don't like? Then go and follow Newcastle.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Ours is probably covered in dog poo and bits of broken glass!
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
They do, but you try dealing with Satan's Favoured Spawn in business!
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I think you have to be very careful when looking at rents that clubs pay..... the level of rent can very often depend on who actually owns the stadium. It might be that the owner also owns the club and takes the view of not charging a commercial rent (of course that can work 2 ways). Then you have to compare like with like ..... there is no way can compare say Yeovil's ground to the Ricoh for example. Reportedly Walsall pay £360K, Crystal Palace were paying £350K, is the Ricoh worth less in rent than those two grounds no.
The club has a retail outlet at the Ricoh, the rent for that alone could easily be over £15k pa. Add to that the offices which i would guess could easily have a rent at £10k pa. We are already looking at £25k+ for a commercial rent of two small areas. Certainly £8000 pm just would not be close in terms of rental of the Ricoh.
If I remember my contract law correctly CCFC would have to prove they were unaware of the terms of the contract, were coerced into signing it or in some other way it was onerous unusual or not set at a commercial level when it was signed (or perrhaps when SISU came in). The fact that circumstances have changed due to poor management, bad investment, awful financial control and piss poor performance on the pitch are not factors to be considered when considering was it unfair when signed. Also fairness applies to both sides not just to CCFC, a judge would consider the willingness of ACL etc to enter discussions as a positive and the witholding of rent as a negative. Certainly the fact that the rent was not queried until very recently when it became obvious we were to be relegated is not going to help a claim of unfairness Grendel.
It is no use blaming the rent when quite clearly the business has failed to address bigger issues like wages at 110% of turnover. I do not think any judge would be so easily fooled.
Plus CCFC would rather pay big legal bills than negotiate the rent on an amicable basis ?
The club has a retail outlet at the Ricoh, the rent for that alone could easily be over £15k pa. Add to that the offices which i would guess could easily have a rent at £10k pa. We are already looking at £25k+ for a commercial rent of two small areas. Certainly £8000 pm just would not be close in terms of rental of the Ricoh.
If I remember my contract law correctly CCFC would have to prove they were unaware of the terms of the contract, were coerced into signing it or in some other way it was onerous unusual or not set at a commercial level when it was signed (or perrhaps when SISU came in). The fact that circumstances have changed due to poor management, bad investment, awful financial control and piss poor performance on the pitch are not factors to be considered when considering was it unfair when signed. Also fairness applies to both sides not just to CCFC, a judge would consider the willingness of ACL etc to enter discussions as a positive and the witholding of rent as a negative. Certainly the fact that the rent was not queried until very recently when it became obvious we were to be relegated is not going to help a claim of unfairness Grendel.
It is no use blaming the rent when quite clearly the business has failed to address bigger issues like wages at 110% of turnover. I do not think any judge would be so easily fooled.
Plus CCFC would rather pay big legal bills than negotiate the rent on an amicable basis ?
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Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Did they buy a League One club? No, they bought a Championship club then went on the record saying that they were going to BUY the stadium (so, no rent), make it into a Premiership club, then sell for a profit. Oops..
Grendel
Well-Known Member
They bought a basket case that was on the verge of not paying any creditors.
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that you want to see the extension of the club just so you can say "told you so".
usskyblue
Well-Known Member
I get that feeling from a quite a few on here..
SBS
Active Member
I'm honestly starting to think relegation was a deliberate plot last season. Reduce the wage bills, remove the big earners. Replace them with a squad of frees on half the amount. Try and force the ACL into reducing the rent as we're in League 1. If we get promoted this season then we're back to where we were, spending a fraction on the amount.
Conspiracies ey?!
Conspiracies ey?!
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Admit it, Ken Dulieu shagged your missus, and you have to paint your face orange to even get close to bringing her to orgasm now.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
so what is the worth in terms of rent. How about this as a guess......
use of pitch and stands. I have been in the past been quoted by CCFC commercial department a figure of £5000 per hour for use of the pitch so have to believe that is the value they put on it. So lets assume including warm ups etc at least 3 hours of use (the club actually gets usage of the stadium from 11 till 6 guaranteed i believe) but say charged for 3 hours covering play 26 games a season that equates to £390k
Shop reasonable commercial rent would be £15K at least for modern shop premises (excluding rates)
offices based on local rents and probable size then rent would be at least £10k (excluding rates)
Use of bars, restaurants x 3, boxes say £4000 per match would be £104k
None of that in my opinion is unreasonable in terms of cost for what is provided and i think would compare to other similar complexes.
The total is £519,000. Income for year apparently in region of £6m. Would make rent 8.6% of turnover for CCFC, save the club money and keep ACL solvent. Sounds simple really - only thing is SISU are not paying anything and are not, at present, negotiating either.
If all parties agreed such a rent for League 1 then this financial year(assuming back dating any agreement to 01/06/12) CCFC will have paid £300k already from the escrow fund leaving £220k left to pay over next 9 months
ACL, the council and charity are all open to discussions provided CCFC prove viability and are open with their plans. ACL etc have said as much in the past and have all said so recently
Just leaves the question why CCFC are simply saying they wont pay............ I am convinced a reasonable alternative exists and that ACL etc have sufficient goodwill to seriously discuss it and agree amendments.......... but there is nothing coming from CCFC .... they are not pushing to hold any talks about a reduction ...... why ?
bottom line there is a decent rent to be paid for the Ricoh and it is a lot more than £100k pa and in my opinion SISU/TF/CCFC have an agenda other than the rent
use of pitch and stands. I have been in the past been quoted by CCFC commercial department a figure of £5000 per hour for use of the pitch so have to believe that is the value they put on it. So lets assume including warm ups etc at least 3 hours of use (the club actually gets usage of the stadium from 11 till 6 guaranteed i believe) but say charged for 3 hours covering play 26 games a season that equates to £390k
Shop reasonable commercial rent would be £15K at least for modern shop premises (excluding rates)
offices based on local rents and probable size then rent would be at least £10k (excluding rates)
Use of bars, restaurants x 3, boxes say £4000 per match would be £104k
None of that in my opinion is unreasonable in terms of cost for what is provided and i think would compare to other similar complexes.
The total is £519,000. Income for year apparently in region of £6m. Would make rent 8.6% of turnover for CCFC, save the club money and keep ACL solvent. Sounds simple really - only thing is SISU are not paying anything and are not, at present, negotiating either.
If all parties agreed such a rent for League 1 then this financial year(assuming back dating any agreement to 01/06/12) CCFC will have paid £300k already from the escrow fund leaving £220k left to pay over next 9 months
ACL, the council and charity are all open to discussions provided CCFC prove viability and are open with their plans. ACL etc have said as much in the past and have all said so recently
Just leaves the question why CCFC are simply saying they wont pay............ I am convinced a reasonable alternative exists and that ACL etc have sufficient goodwill to seriously discuss it and agree amendments.......... but there is nothing coming from CCFC .... they are not pushing to hold any talks about a reduction ...... why ?
bottom line there is a decent rent to be paid for the Ricoh and it is a lot more than £100k pa and in my opinion SISU/TF/CCFC have an agenda other than the rent
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lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
He'd only do that if a mate bought him a season ticket.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I would gues sisu want rent of 250 k a year council will want 750 k so 500 k rising to 750 with promotion back to 1 mill with prem. Should be reasonable.
Howver would 500k just kep ACL afloat but not making profit
Howver would 500k just kep ACL afloat but not making profit
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Would keep them from losing 500k.
The football club are allowed to lose millions but everybody wants them to spend more?
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Look, I know you are a bit slow, so let me re-iterate: I pay for my ticket. Stop lying! Slanderous son of a gun.
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Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
I'd love to see an extension of the club! Maybe an extension into the foreign markets? That would be possible if SISU were reasonable negotiators and willing to sell..
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
would it? So a client signs a contract that keeps you in profit. They run their business poorly then demand you change the contract because of their ineptitude.
They dishonor the contract and make bullying demands.
If dropping to 500k does mean ACL does not make profit.
They should agree to it for two seasons.
They should demand to see proof that the saved million by sisu is freshly invested in the club either on wages or transfer fees.
Also have the promotion clauses in place.
Wrenstreetcarpark
New Member
Seems to me that Tim Fisher and Joy Seppalla are just saying feck you, see you in Court. Poker players hoping to get ACL to fold because their own hand is so weak. So who will blink first?
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Yes, but your friend bought it, and you pay as and when you go to a game. So i am correct in saying that you haven't paid for your own season ticket.
Think you explained in a hugely long, convoluted post when trying to justify your back-peddlling from your "Never going to watch City" again stance, after selling Bigi.
Was quite hilarious though.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
No I haven't paid, but I will pay for every game I go to. You were implying that I get in for free, deliberately misleadingly.
I have not back peddled, and that post was in response to a sarcastic, snide twat like you-possibly even you-demanding an explanation.
Trust me Lord, I'd have you "hidden", but then I wouldn't be able to defend myself against your lies, would I? Why do you come on here-do you like football? Or do you just like being a nasty wind-up merchant? You can't structure an argument very well, even though you think you are so superior.
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
You're a very strange man. Lies, lies, lies, infamy,infamy, they've all got it in for me. Wouldn't ever want you hidden, like to see you squirm, and lobve the way you make up facts to try and suit your "arguments", then disappear for a bit when it's pointed out that it's untrue. You haven't back-peddled? You said you weren't ever going to watch City again when we sold Bigi. Now you are. That's backpeddling.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
I couldn't get out of it, but if you want to call it backpeddling, that's fine: 99.9% of what you believe to be true clearly isn't anyway!
Oh and I don't "disappear", just mostly post when at work or come on to see the latest news. I have a life away from this forum, you know!
Oh and I don't "disappear", just mostly post when at work or come on to see the latest news. I have a life away from this forum, you know!
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Sorry, it is a bit of a private conversation taking place in public-and sorry for being snappy with you the other day! See my comments about how I often post whilst at work..not an easy place to be at the moment.
