Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yeah we’d be banned whatever
Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter BackRoomRummermill
- Start date
Yeah we’d be banned whatever
hill83
Well-Known Member
Mid December for me
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I don't disagree. I'd also argue go hard go fast would be better both for the economy, and for life. Waiting and waiting before reluctantly implementing just draws out the misery.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
National Dry January
We can all be cunts together
We can all be cunts together
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
They don't fuck about in Italy
Italian runner faces Covid fine after Simone Massetti's fatal fall
The two men were on an Alpine run and authorities said they should not have left their local area.
www.bbc.co.uk
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Fucking hellThey don't fuck about in Italy
Italian runner faces Covid fine after Simone Massetti's fatal fall
The two men were on an Alpine run and authorities said they should not have left their local area.www.bbc.co.uk
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Government’s Rushed, Biased Procurement Process Exposed by Spending Watchdog
A new National Audit Office report – which found that the Government established a ‘high-priority’ lane for PPE suppliers with political links – does little to dispel the notion of cronyism at the heart of the Boris Johnson administration, explains Sam Bright
bylinetimes.com
Government’s Rushed, Biased Procurement Process Exposed by Spending Watchdog
A new National Audit Office report – which found that the Government established a ‘high-priority’ lane for PPE suppliers with political links – does little to dispel the notion of cronyism at the heart of the Boris Johnson administration, explains Sam Bright
This is disgrace all round (assuming all accurate - which it appears to be). I’ve got no issue with getting people you know involved if they can deliver, but if they don’t you/they have got to be held accountable
The mixture of politicians cronies sticking their collective noses in the trough (especially in such times when lives are at stake), plus the totally inept public sector procurement is inexcusable.
ps WTF are we doing agreeing to some kind of no returns policy ?! That’s the area which I think/hope is questionable. Under consumer law if products are provided that don’t meet certain specifications and/or don’t do their job, there’s the ability to get a refund (surely ?!!)
What fucking world have we turned into ?! Sturgeons going to be arresting people outside their areas by the sounds of it. Sad times
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
The Scottish Government have been more active in trying to get the virus control then others.
We've been mostly in Level 3 Lockdown up here in the West of Scotland from since around the beginning of September. Its been bubbling around the 300 per 100K for a while and it just looks like it wont go down, or, any change downwards is going to be very slow.
This lockdown (level 3) has been far earlier then in other parts of the UK with lower numbers.
To give an example, Hull is over 700 per 100K over the last day or two. I wouldnt like to be there at the moment.
I can see the level 4 lockdown having more affect on the numbers but I think we will all be in this lockdown till either the numbers come down by a sufficent amount, or they will have to close the schools and the rest of the commerce to protect the NHS.
It will be interesting which way this will go.
The numbers in NI are interesting because they did close the schools, yet kept other stuff open, and there was a big drop in the 'R' number.
The numbers for Tuesday have just been updated on the BBC website.
Nearly 600 deaths a day is a travesty which should of been avoided.
100% agree that number of deaths is a travesty but arresting people for going outside their area or that bloke Italy who reported his mates fall getting fined
What type of society do we actually want to live in ?
If things are that severe move the schools to online learning for a couple of weeks.
ps before any further lockdown measures Id want to see where we are with daily hospital admissions and total inpatients (in totality - not just Covid) and capacities in hospitals in regions, compared to the average for this time of year (for starters)
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I feel like a stuck record...
Really though, if all we're doing is delaying the inevitable, and at the risk of sounding like Brighton, why are we stopping everything fun if it has no effect?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
On Dec 25 there will be police peering through windows to see how many are round the dinner table
I feel like a stuck record...
Really though, if all we're doing is delaying the inevitable, and at the risk of sounding like Brighton, why are we stopping everything fun if it has no effect?
Exactly. If they have to implement additional measures/restrictions then I’ll also start to question the effectiveness of all other measures, even to some extent mask wearing etc (if the virus is still running wild ?!!)
I appreciate that probably makes me sound a little trump like (not what any wants !!!) and of course I’ll continue to still keep wearing mine but it would make you start to wonder about some of the things being implemented and their effectiveness
I’m still hopeful the numbers will start to drop though (fingers crossed)
ps alternatively, as I’ve mentioned a few times (also like a stuck record !!!), there just isn’t the buy in this time. If 25% are admitting they will breach rules in polls, I wonder what the actual figure is ?!!
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Well I wouldn't go that far
Of course the figures would be even worse without the measures we have in place already.But... if you want to get in a position of relaxing them, then you have to give space for the virus to become more commonplace, and that means reducing, rather than maintaining, before you do that.
As for buying in then yep, it's definitely less than last time. That being said, most people would buy-in and such measures will never get 100% of people to embrace them - I'm sure they could get more with a clear plan, too. We've just tried the Chinese water torture approach this time around, and that's not going to work!
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Saw a poll somewhere showing the difference between those who said they would follow the rules and those who said they broke a rule for any reason in the last two week I think.
As you say about 25% for the “would you” but rose to something like 60% for the more accurate “have you”. People are notoriously bad at predicting their own future behaviour.
Clearly things are having an effect. We controlled the first wave and look like doing it again thanks to the measures. As we gain more evidence it becomes more and more obvious mask wearing is a net positive.
I don’t get why people are so precious TBH. It’s a once in a lifetime event like a war. Yet the same people that blather on about snowflakes and the golden generation can’t take not going to the pub every night.
We’ve become such a whiny nation.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I agree about known sources - after all don't we have particular tradesmen we know and trust and then recommend them to people we know?
But the thing that gets me this was nothing about ability to deliver and everything about giving mates money is the failure to put in clauses for lack of delivery/performance that are usually industry standard. Why have they not been used in these cases?
As you say the Sale of Goods Act has specific sections about fitness for purpose, quality and meeting description. Businesses will try and get out of it bu saying stuff like 'no returns' assuming the average person won't know their statutory rights. But that surely can't apply to the government - they must know that kind of clause is unenforceable in law. In which case they're choosing not to enforce their rights.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
What (unless I've missed it, because it's blindingly obvious to me) never seems to be pointed out, is that these measures are in place so we can enjoy more of our freedoms we enjoy, for longer, afterwards. It's short term pain for long term gain.
I dunno, a former boss of mine always used to pitch things in a 'what's in it for me?' answer and that always seems the easiest way to sell things, what benefit does it have for somebody? Telling them you'll save your neighbour's Gran might have an effect for a bit but, you need to make it more personal really.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Some modelling like “if we have 100% mask compliance we can open sports stadia” “80% and we can only allow 5k in” “50% and they all have to close” or whatever that cleary links the measures with things people want open, even though it doesn’t work exactly like that, would be good. Make it real.
I'm sure there's some good game theory out there about how the public would respond to that. My gut feeling is that it wouldn't stop people acting selfishly, so long as they assume that 100% compliance is impossible and others are doing their part etc
Personally I'm surprised the whole 'Go back to work to save Pret' mentality wasn't applied from the very beginning to promote public health - 'Mask up to save your job/school/holiday/pub' etc. Clearly there are loads of people who are much more motivated by having a good time than they are by saving strangers' lives.
The big problem with both those ideas is that you instantly lose all credibility if you promise something you then can't deliver...
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
That's true. You have to, somehow (and this is why I'm not paid to do it!) come up with a suitably catchy message that things are subject to change in a pandemic!
Interestingly or otherwise, I was watching the Thatcher Years last night, and that said how to begin with as leader of the opposition she was too wordy, tried to explain everything in detail, and what was needed was short, snappy sentences to play to the gallery.
Same applies here, really. It *should* be what Johnson is good at, distilling the medics' advice for the general public.
Just to clarify, I agree (and hope) that the restrictions are having an affect....the regional tier threes were before the National lockdown by all accounts. I was saying if they end up having to apply further/stricter measures I would start to question, the effectiveness of some of the measures currently implemented.
Ps it’s a bit more than people not being able to go to the pub though shmmeee ! (As detailed in previous posts).
The snappy messaging worked at the start...possibly too well with hundreds of thousands/millions of missed screenings, GP appointments etc. The health impact of which we probably won’t know for months or more
I know a fair few people and yet I don’t think other than my mum and step dad, who are in their 70s (and possibly brother and his missus - who’s been diagnosed with long Covid) who are 100% following the rules. I’m not talking about 40 people house raves, just meeting the odd person etc. I also know workplaces where staff could WFH who are still going in albeit reduced capacity (more relevant in response to shmmeee’s post)
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clint van damme
Well-Known Member
too early to say apparently
Trends in suicide during the covid-19 pandemic
Prevention must be prioritised while we wait for a clearer picture As many countries face new stay-at-home restrictions to curb the spread of covid-19, there are concerns that rates of suicide may increase—or have already increased.12 Several factors underpin these concerns, including a...
Think too early for full stats post Covid but I saw this the other week (in a different paper - can’t remember which)
Callouts to suicides or attempted suicides in London double in a year
It comes amid concerns about the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic on mental health.
www.standard.co.uk
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Think figures on suicides have a six month plus delay as every case has to be referred to the coroner for investigation. Could be even longer at the moment.
Probably the best indication is the load on mental health services. Not sure how easy those figures are to get.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Coventry going in the wrong direction and significantly so since tiers
Nick
Administrator
I don't think enough is being done for mental health through this.
It is all well and good saying "yeah close the gyms" (as an example) but my gym was spotless and safer than me going in the shop. How many people will use the gym as therapy? Same with classes that can also be socially distanced, Yoga etc etc.
At the minute all I can do is work, go home, work, go home, work, go home. It's not a good recipe and I haven't really seen much being done?
Spot on. Still waiting for some proper evidence to see if there were spikes in the gyms (and hospitality - although I consider that higher risk) post reopening. Very difficult to pinpoint where you catch it as discussed before, but there should still be evidence if these were high transmission locations.
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
It does look like the main issue is the geographical location of Coventry compared to how the virus is spreading rather than any issues within Coventry trying to contain the virus. The surrounding areas are all showing increases with Coventry not being on the edge of the area of concern any more, but further on in within the cluster.
I think there may be a bigger concern here of when London does finally catch, with its population density, and the gradual flow outwards to the surrounding areas, which we have seen in the North, then we could be hit by another wave even stronger then the one we are facing at the moment.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Mental health services have been absoltluy decimated in the last 10 years. My ex-wife working in that area for the NHS and it was really shocking how deep the cuts were. They were left unable to provide an adequate service and there was a clear increase in deaths and other key metrics but they were threatened with dismissal if they spoke up about it.
So you've got services that are unable to cope with the demand on the service in normal times, and various charities trying to pick up those who can't get the help they need, now having a huge additional demands placed on them. They've got no chance. So you end up in a situation where only the most severe cases are seen which means others go untreated which of course then means that eventually more people end up as severe cases.
This is going to be a huge problem long after lockdown and covid are over and done with. Remains to be seen if the necessary support systems will be put in place but as you say it seems to be an afterthought at the moment.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
The difficulty is, where do you target what resources there are? It's not just what's lost in those respects, but people who lose loved ones suddenly, and weren't in a position to say goodbye.
And personally, I'd be in a lot better place if I didn't have to wave Mrs. Wisdom off to work in a position that seems pointless her going in, and where she was expressly stopped from going in first time around as it was too dangerous for her, apparently, but now it's seen as AOK.
Overall, mental health needs a big bump in funding regardless but then, so does the entire health service.
Nick
Administrator
I have found that the GPs have always been more interested in Doris with a cold (pre COVID) than mental health issues.
It's all well and good the campaigns saying "talk to somebody" but when you can't get into the doctors for a month (pre COVID) what are you meant to do?
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
(I agree incidentally)
Perhaps now is as apt a time as any to link to a few helpful charities. I'm not saying they're a substitute but... it's starting off a process at least, if needed. Sure people can add others.
Home
We're Mind, the mental health charity. We're here to make sure no one has to face a mental health problem alone.
www.mind.org.uk
National charity helping people with Anxiety - Anxiety UK
Become a Member of Anxiety UK. We pride ourselves on being user led, with many on our staff and volunteer team having personal experience of anxiety.
www.anxietyuk.org.uk
Cruse Bereavement Support
Grief can be overwhelming - you don't have to deal with it alone. Cruse Bereavement Support is here. Call our helpline or chat online.
www.cruse.org.uk
Home | Relate
Relate offers counselling services for every type of relationship nationwide. We provide advice on marriage, LGBT issues, divorce and parenting.
Samaritans - Here to listen
Samaritans works to make sure there’s always someone there for anyone who needs someone. Read more.
www.samaritans.org